Harper Skip AIDs Conference

[jbg]

As a very great leader of a very great democracy once said: "A proof is a proof (Link) What kind of proof ? It's a proof. A proof is proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it is proven."

I'm no fan of Chretien at his worst.

I still like to see information that backs up someone's statements.

I thought he was Churchillian in his eloquence, especially then.

[jdobbin]

I thought he was Churchillian in his eloquence, especially then.

He was able to disarm his critics temporarily by making them laugh. He had charisma for sure but he wasn't interested in details and subsequently, it ensured poor governance.

Ultimately, I think he'll remembered only for not taking to Canada to war in Iraq, not that his reasons were clear at the time.

[WestViking]

Chretien under fire for shunning AIDS conference

Reuters NewMedia, Inc. - 5 July 1996

TORONTO - Canadian AIDS activists said on Friday they regretted Prime Minister Jean Chretien's decision to shun an international AIDS conference in Vancouver and urged him not to give up the fight against AIDS.

The 11th International Conference on AIDS opens on Sunday in Vancouver, but Chretien has said he is too busy to attend.

This will be the first time in the history of the conference that the head of government of the host country will not open the event.

"We're extremely disappointed," said Brian Huskins, president of the Canadian AIDS Society.

A full-page advertisement run by a group called AIDS Action Now in Toronto's Globe & Mail newspaper on Friday urged Chretien not to "give up on AIDS...lives are at stake."

But activists said that Chretien was afraid to show up because his government had not renewed the National AIDS Strategy beyond 1998. The strategy is designed to coordinate the government's response to the pandemic and guarantee a certain level of funding.

About 9,600 people are believed to have died in Canada from AIDS.

Conference organisers said that Chretien's decision made it impossible for South African President Nelson Mandela to attend, because of protocol. Mandela had planned to go until Chretien sent his regrets, they said.

[jdobbin]

AIDS Conference organizers have shown themselves up as the incapable spoiled brats they are. These malcontents have shown their true colours by attacking our Prime Minister for not allowing them to hijack our political agenda and put the nation’s business on hold for their benefit.

The appeal was for the prime minister was to appear. For the most part the conference has proceeded with its scientific seminars, medical reports, demographic numbers and the like. Pretty dry stuff although there is a political component in terms safe injection sites, cirumcision for men and how to provide women microbial gels that are undetectable from the men that they are with.

[jdobbin]

Conference organisers said that Chretien's decision made it impossible for South African President Nelson Mandela to attend, because of protocol. Mandela had planned to go until Chretien sent his regrets, they said.

And I have said that Chretien was stupid not to attend.

If you look further, you'll see much Conservative criticism of that decision. So were the Tories wrong then?

[Canuck E Stan]

The AIDS Conference is an expensive showpiece of what is wrong with the efforts to combat the ailment. If organizers intend to attract $ millions in donations to their cause, they should consider that the enormous wasted expense of their cheering section is not lost on us.

The Aids Conference has become the highlight to an Aids Research Industry, where researchers come to showcase their research and appeal for more money to do more research.

Hence Bill Gates demanded that these Researchers share their findings with other researchers before he hands over $500 million.

Something that should have been done a long time ago,in order to find a cure as quick as possible.

[August1991]

AIDs is the fourth largest killer in the world.

Link please.

What are the first three? Is it the fourth largest killer in Canada? In the US? How broadly are they determined? What are the relative mortality rates?

So many questions, jdobbin, and so few answers. The North American Left has a tendency to see impending doom everywhere - AIDS in fact was never a scourge and is decreasingly a problem.

Even in Africa, ordinary people face far greater problems from a lack of clean water or malaria than from AIDS. Indeed AIDS is more a symptom of poverty than it is a cause.

----

dobbin, can you please refrain from copying an entire previous post when you reply. Instead, choose specific phrases and edit out the rest.

[jdobbin]

http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2002/english/ch6/index.htm

4th largest killer in the world.

[jdobbin]

Some Canadian stats on AIDs/HIV.

http://www.therecord.com/NASApp/cs/Content...l=1024322596091

[jdobbin]

The Aids Conference has become the highlight to an Aids Research Industry, where researchers come to showcase their research and appeal for more money to do more research.

Hence Bill Gates demanded that these Researchers share their findings with other researchers before he hands over $500 million.

Something that should have been done a long time ago,in order to find a cure as quick as possible.

A very good observation. Not exclusive to AIDs research either though.

Foundations like the Gates Foundation could change the approach to many of the diseases of the world. More shared science in exchange for funding.

[jdobbin]

WHO rates the top 10 killers. Their latest data has AIDs as number 2 killer.

http://www.alertnet.org/topkillerdiseases.htm

Now, if you have contrary data, I'm all ears.

[WestViking]

Conference organisers said that Chretien's decision made it impossible for South African President Nelson Mandela to attend, because of protocol. Mandela had planned to go until Chretien sent his regrets, they said.

And I have said that Chretien was stupid not to attend.

If you look further, you'll see much Conservative criticism of that decision. So were the Tories wrong then?

Intersting, since there were only two conservatives in Parliament in 1996 - was it Jean Chrest or Elsie Wayne making all the noise? Or is it you making unfounded speculations?

[jdobbin]

Intersting, since there were only two conservatives in Parliament in 1996 - was it Jean Chrest or Elsie Wayne making all the noise? Or is it you making unfounded speculations?

No, Charest commented at the time about Chretien going fishing instead of attending the conference. Mulroney was also interviewed about how he went, faced the criticism and presented Canada's policy. Elsie Wayne said nothing that I recall.

There were also Conservative senators who commented.

[Hicksey]

Conference organisers said that Chretien's decision made it impossible for South African President Nelson Mandela to attend, because of protocol. Mandela had planned to go until Chretien sent his regrets, they said.

And I have said that Chretien was stupid not to attend.

If you look further, you'll see much Conservative criticism of that decision. So were the Tories wrong then?

Can I ask an honest question?

Why does what will amount to nothing more than a photo-op mean so much?

[August1991]

WHO rates the top 10 killers. Their latest data has AIDs as number 2 killer.

http://www.alertnet.org/topkillerdiseases.htm

Now, if you have contrary data, I'm all ears.

This link refers to deaths in the "developing world" (whatever that is) and if you read the list, you'd see that malaria may or may not be number 2. Your list puts "lower respiratory infections" (huh?) as Number 1.

http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2002/english/ch6/index.htm

4th largest killer in the world.

I read through your link and I found no mention of AIDS being the "fourth largest killer in the world". There was certainly no mention of the other three since the piece was badly written, uncritical and polemical. It's the kind of nonsense written by bureaucrats on a mission.

I did find this admission however:

Poverty's companions encourage the infection: undernourishment; lack of clean water, sanitation and hygienic living conditions; generally low levels of health, compromised immune systems, high incidence of other infections, including genital infections, and exposure to diseases such as tuberculosis and malaria; inadequate public health services; illiteracy and ignorance; pressures encouraging high-risk behaviour, from labour migration to alcohol abuse and gender violence...

IOW, AIDS seems to be connected to every social ailment in this impoverished world.

Dobbin, can you please provide a (credible) link to a list of the leading causes of death in the world and showing AIDS as being the fourth.

[jdobbin]

"Twenty years after the first clinical evidence of AIDS, it has become the most devastating disease yet faced by humanity, striking, on average, 14,000 men, women and children daily, the leading cause of death in sub-Saharan Africa and the world's fourth biggest killer."

That is from the link that you said you couldn't find 4th largest killer in the world.

[jdobbin]

By the way, here's the difference between upper and lower respiratory tract infections:

http://www.kcom.edu/faculty/chamberlain/We...re/introurt.htm

[jdobbin]

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...hibm1P129299164

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/323/7324/1271/c

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/284/5417/1101b

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials...son/index.shtml

http://www.gsk.com/infocus/aidsat25.htm

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july.../aids_12-3.html

All list it as the fourth biggest killer world-wide.

Why are you debating the leading casues of death? Health Canada and the CDC both list it as 4th leading killer in the world.

In Canada and the U.S., the number of deaths are lower because life has been prolonged through treatment.

[jdobbin]

Can I ask an honest question?

Why does what will amount to nothing more than a photo-op mean so much?

One reason is that so much shame is associated with the disease. Many other leaders around the world are afraid to even say the word AIDs or HIV because of the fear and shame of it. Not every appearance by the prime minister is mealy mouthed.

It certainly has to be more important than visiting an arena in the Yukon. *That* is a photo-op and one that didn't quite work out the way the prime minister wanted because a group of people asked him why he wasn't in Toronto at the conference.

[Charles Anthony]

It certainly has to be more important than visiting an arena in the Yukon. *That* is a photo-op and one that didn't quite work out the way the prime minister wanted because a group of people asked him why he wasn't in Toronto at the conference.

Most political parties are represented in the Yukon too.

I wonder if people will still be ragging on Harper about this triviality even after the conference is over?

[jdobbin]

Most political parties are represented in the Yukon too.

I wonder if people will still be ragging on Harper about this triviality even after the conference is over?

I'm not sure what you mean about the first part.

And it was Yukoners who asked him what he was doing in the Yukon while the conference was on.

After the conference, it will probably be less of an issue but as Harper casts about this for something to keep him busy, his message has gotten lost.

His important announcement on the Northwest Passage was backpage news. It was directed in part to the United States but the only Canadians story the Washington Post and New York Times was covering was the conference in Toronto. Bad timing.

[August1991]

"Twenty years after the first clinical evidence of AIDS, it has become the most devastating disease yet faced by humanity, striking, on average, 14,000 men, women and children daily, the leading cause of death in sub-Saharan Africa and the world's fourth biggest killer."

That is from the link that you said you couldn't find 4th largest killer in the world.

Thank you. My error. It was in the second paragraph but I guess I missed it in the verbiage.

An undocumented claim such as this calls out for critical examination. What is the basis of this claim? What are the other three leading causes of death? How is "cause of death" defined?

My understanding is that AIDS is a minor disease in western countries and it's largely confined to drug users in Eastern Europe. Statistics in Asia are almost nonexistent but it doesn't seem prevalent. AIDS is primarily a problem in subsaharan Africa but that part of the world suffers from numerous other problems. I suspect African deaths (likely due to poverty as much as AIDS) explain the "fourth largest killer" claim. Relatively rich Botswana and South Africa have the resources to deal with the problem.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that AIDS is not a problem. I think Gates was well-advised to fund basic medical research. I'm just trying to put the issue into proper perspective - and that's what Stephen Harper apparently did. Stephen Lewis and David Suzuki, OTOH, are the classic examples of 1960s limousine liberals who have been playing this CBC schtick for decades. It's beyond tiresome now.

I'll also add that in the greater world outside of Toronto, the "World" AIDS conference isn't happening. Believe me, Bangkok newspapers are not plastering proceedings all over their pages.

In 1983, Pierre Trudeau embarked on a "World Peace Mission". I was travelling extensively at the time and I heard absolutely nothing about this until I returned to Canada and saw the blaring headlines in English-Canadian newspapers. Toronto is an extremely self-centred city and Toronto journalists are particularly self-centred.

[Charles Anthony]

Most political parties are represented in the Yukon too.

I'm not sure what you mean about the first part.

Stop the politics and be realistic. You said "a group of people asked him" and I suggest that you ask exactly who you think those people happened to be.

And it was Yukoners who asked him what he was doing in the Yukon while the conference was on.

Really? There are about 25,000 people in the whole Yukon territory. Most of them are there because:

1) ancestry

2) they love the outdoors (hunting, fishing, recreation)

3) they accept extreme cold during the winter

4) some or all of the above

I suggest that you visit the Yukon when you get the chance. It is the most beautiful part of this country.

You expect people to believe that Yukoners are really interested in the World Conference on AIDS in Toronto more than they would be about defending the Northwest Passage. Are we so stupid as to not even consider the possibility that your "Yukoners who asked him" were not planted for a counter-strike against Harper? They are probably back in Toronto right now.

[jdobbin]

Stop the politics and be realistic. You said "a group of people asked him" and I suggest that you ask exactly who you think those people happened to be.

Really? There are about 25,000 people in the whole Yukon territory. Most of them are there because:

1) ancestry

2) they love the outdoors (hunting, fishing, recreation)

3) they accept extreme cold during the winter

4) some or all of the above

I suggest that you visit the Yukon when you get the chance. It is the most beautiful part of this country.

You expect people to believe that Yukoners are really interested in the World Conference on AIDS in Toronto more than they would be about defending the Northwest Passage. Are we so stupid as to not even consider the possibility that your "Yukoners who asked him" were not planted for a counter-strike against Harper? They are probably back in Toronto right now.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/16082006/2/nati...on-capital.html

Apparently, it was an Anglican minister in Whitehorse that led a group of Whitehorse residents and asked why the PM was not in Toronto.

However, I'm sure some had ancestors in the north, loved the outdoors, accepted extreme cold and all of the above.

[jdobbin]

An undocumented claim such as this calls out for critical examination. What is the basis of this claim? What are the other three leading causes of death? How is "cause of death" defined?

This is how causes of death are defined.

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?script=...862006000400014