By The Time You Read This

[Pellaken]

late news from CBC newsworld tonight

the PC's and CA are in serious discussion, at this moment, to unite the right.

some suggestions for the new leader are

Ray Speaker, former Reform MP

Bill Davis, former Ontario PC Premier

Don Mazankowski, former PC Deputy PM

the new name would be "The Conservative Party"

and all terms would need to be acepted by both parties

a leadership conveniton would need to be held

and all this would need to be done within a few weeks.

lets see what happens tomarrow morning!

[sir_springer]

As a CA member...

Either Harper is leader...

Or nothing.

I'm not even remotely interested in anything else.

[Littlefinger]

lets see what happens tomarrow morning!

These are PRELIMINARY discussions! Each party still has to ask its members to vote on any proposal satisfactory to both parties, which based on the fact that many CA members share sir_springer's view, remains highly unlikely.

[sir_springer]

Harper makes 'last-ditch' effort to unite right

CTV.ca News Staff

There are reports that Canadian Alliance leader Stephen Harper has made a "last-ditch" effort to unite the right before the next federal election, and bring his party and the Progressive Conservatives under one banner.

CTV's Lisa LaFlamme reports that Harper is getting some high-level help, from former prime minister Brian Mulroney and former deputy prime minister Don Mazankowski.

LaFlamme said that Progressive Conservative Leader Peter MacKay was given Harper's proposal in August, but hasn't yet made a decision.

"By going public, they are trying to force him to make a decision," LaFlamme said.

Harper's plan is said to have support from the Alliance caucus. It would see the two parties hold a joint leadership convention before the next election, expected in the spring. One suggested name for the new party is the Conservative Party.

The Canadian Alliance and its predecessor, the Reform Party, have never been able to elect enough MPs to have a viable chance at forming a government. Meanwhile, in the past decade, the Progressive Conservative Party fortunes have waned.

The Tories currently hold 15 seats in parliament; the Alliance 63. The ruling Liberals hold 170 seats.

"The Alliance realized they can't do it with two parties to the right," LaFlamme said. "They have to unite the right."

[solomon]

Being married to the Regressive Regurgitives would be like making love with your clothes on.

It's gotta be the Alliance or nothing!

[westcoast99]

This isn't true. The report said that these are 3 of the people involved in the negotiations on behalf of their parties.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[westcoast99]

As a CA member...

Either Harper is leader...

Or nothing.

I'm not even remotely interested in anything else.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[dnsfurlan]

Actually, I think you really have to wonder what's going on here. Apparently, according to Canada.com it was Stephen Harper who made the move and Peter Mackay was told to talk seriously or risk being the next "Kim Campbell".

It looks like a lot of power brokers, including Mulroney, want to see this thing happen. And Mackay seems to be boxed into a corner here. Because, if he's the one that backs away, then many might just leave him to rot for the next election.

So, either something does happen and there is merger. Or, something doesn't happen and Mackay is left with the titile of Spoiler with even further eroded support.

My only question is why Harper has pursued this. You can even get a sense of some of the aversion in the posts in this forum from some Canadian Alliance members.

One guess is that he thinks he's in the best position to win the leadership of the new party, especailly because most of its members might be CA. And, if you think about it, who else is there? I think Harper would beat Mackay. Bernard Lord is probably our of the question. And, anyone else probably would be hard pressed to get up to speed in such a short amount of time, including Mike Harris, who I doubt has what it takes to be a federal leader anyway.

Has Harper pulled a fast one here? Or is this the end of the line for both Harper and Mackay? Or, if Mackay rejects the idea, is it the end of the line for Mackay only?

All thoughts to consider.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I support the merger, sure sometimes PC'ers tend to piss me off, but overall their kind of conservative.

However Gugsy should remember that it has been the Alliance who has actaully been trying to unite the right, and the PC's are the ones who are continuing to split the vote.

Hopefully their will be a merger, and maybe Mike Harris, or Stephen Harper could become leader, but if a red tory wins who will bring about a blue liberal government, then I will take my support elsewhere. Maybe libertarian, freedon party, or a newly formed party.

[westcoast99]

Loyola Hearn MP, Don Mazankowski, Bill Davis, Scott Reid MP, and Ray Speaker are those at the negotiating tables right now.

Most of the Alliance has said they are in favour of a merger. Bill Casey was asked "Do you think you could keep your seat in Atlantic Canada with Stephen Harper as your leader?"

He responded "I believe I could under the Conservative party, yes."

This is certainly interesting. I really hope they can make something of this, and soon!

I acknowledge that Harper is a stronger leader.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[dnsfurlan]

Well, Gugsy, I definitely see some hope here. The only thing that concerns me is the time factor. How in the world do you get a new party together by next spring that will have a coherent strategy and message to deploy against the Federales?

If you think about it, with such a huge project, there is more that can go wrong than right. All it would take is some setback along the way and we would be right where we started, perhaps with even more animosity on either side.

Maybe the momentum for this is so strong that the obstacles can be overcome. Maybe backroom supporters are so desirous of this that the machinery will be in place for a good-will coordinated effort.

I never thought such talk of merger would materialize. What has really surprised me is that Harper has led the way on this, and that Mulroney and the boys have been putting the screws to Mackay to get something done here.

There is still such a long way to go, which raises the possibility of another scenario.

Maybe Mackay backs off and then becomes a pariah within PC circles. This paves the way for a gravitation towards Harper and the Alliance election machine that is already in place. If Mulroney and company endorse Harper, as Michael Bliss already has, then that would leave the recalcitrant Mackay with nothing to go forward with except that cursed deal with Orchard he made to secure his leadership.

The only problem with this is that it may turn off many PCs. However, if this would miraculosuly materialize, what would the left-out PC's do? The right would be left with one legit contender and all the support it would need to mount a serious challenge to the Liberals.

I really do hate bringing that possibility up because a)it is whacked b)its not a very smooth transition. The only reason I do is because of the time factor. Frankly, I just don't see how a new party can be well launched before spring.

But the thought of having some kind of united entity going after the Liberals does raise hope, doesn't it? Can you imagine one party giving the Liberals a general run for their money? No more sniping. No more insecurity about being the only real alternative. There would only be one real alternative that could expose all the flaws of the Liberals while also offering a principled alternative acceptable to all Canadians.

Is it too good to be true? Given all the hell we've been through in the past, you can't blame a guy for carrying lingering doubts.

Lets hope something works out here and that conservatism has a chance again in this great country.

Cheers.

[dnsfurlan]

UPDATE: It seems Mackay remains skeptical: 'No shotgun wedding,' says Tory leader as leaks stall Tory-Alliance talks

Actually, I've got a problem with the stance Mackay is taking here. He seems to be upset with some of the pressure that is coming from the Alliance with this. But what in the world is he waiting for? Harper came to him with this in August and he still seems like he wants to sit on it.

Is Mackay pulling a Joe Clark here? Sure looks like it!

[theWatcher]

I understand why Mackay is sceptical. There are about 75,000 PC members currently and about 120,000 CA.

It would be difficult to keep things balanced for a leadership contest.

A very solid third alternative that would be a viable choice for both parties needs to be found.

Sadly, I don't think any such person exists right now.

[KrustyKidd]

The Liberals are so bad that the country needs to be saved. If these guys cannot get it together they too, are part of the problem. Pro rate the votes so that one CA vote equals 2/3 PC or something but get it going for God's sake. So help me, if these people let Martin walk into 24 Sussex without a challenge then I'll never vote again.

[sir_springer]

For the record...

I've always been a supporter of "uniting the right", so to speak.

But for five years I have watched the likes of Joe Clark, Wayne, Crosby, and to a large degree, MacKay, do their damnedest to torpedo every effort by Manning, Day, and Harper to accomplish this.

These SOBs have demonstrated nothing but self-centered, egotistical arrogance in their total disregard for what is best for the greater good of Canadians.

However...

If Harper can pull this off...without sacrificing that which is core to the Reform/Canadian Alliance...then more power to him. I will support him all the way.

As to who will emerge to lead this new party?

Stephen Harper. There is no other choice that even remotely approaches him. Not even close.

He WILL be Prime Minister of Canada one day, and I suspect sooner than most think possible or probable.

Leading a unified conservative party, he will be unstoppable.

Why?

Because the best the Libs have to offer is Paul Martin...who is a complete fraud.

I am dead serious, not merely cheerleading, when I tell you that Stephen Harper will rip this fraud to pieces in front of the entire nation, one strip at a time...and do so with shocking aplomb and skill.

Over the last year Harper has matured remarkably, his speaking skills have taken on a fine edge, and his leadership capabilities are now beyond question.

If MacKay squashes this last effort for unity, it will be fatal to both him and his party in no uncertain terms.

While I'd prefer a unified party, I sure as hell am not afraid of the CA and Harper going it alone.

Because either way, Harper will emerge victorious at the end of the day.

Of this, I am certain.

[Pellaken]

harper will never be the leader of a united right party

nor will day, or manning

or clark, mackay, or charest fopr that matter.

would YOU want muldoon as leader? then eastern conservatives dont want Manning as leader either.

you need someone neutral.

[westcoast99]

I do think that Harper has what it takes to lead a United party.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[Cameron]

I heard on the CBC last night that Mackay made a pact with one of the runner-ups in the leadership race (can't remember his name). One of the conditions that were made for votes, was "No party mergers with the Alliance". If Mackay does go through with it he will loose all credibility...doesn't make for a good leader.

[westcoast99]

If he merges, he will be doing the best thing for Canadians.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy

[Cameron]

Yes he made an agreement with Orchard to win the convention. So what? If he merges, he will be doing the best thing for Canadians.

Since when are politicians not allowed to lie?

Good point.

Do what's best for Canada.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I sure hope a merger comes about, then all this bemoaning and attacking will stop, then the majority of us will instead be sniping for liberal's instead of each other.

-Pellaken has obviously went back to the NDP, I thought he decided to join up with the PC's or Alliance.

-Some Tories might leave, 2or 3 MP's may leave if their is a united right, however most of them belong in the NDP, or Liberals.

-I predict that a united right wing could win seats 9 out of 10 provinces, and capture at least 30%-45% of the right wing vote in Canada.

-If the Alliance abondones the principles of free markets, individual liberty, and democratic reforms. A second Reform party would come about.

Alliance, PC linkup nearer to reality

Many divisions remain among Conservatives

Sean Gordon and Bill Curry

The Ottawa Citizen

Friday, September 19, 2003

ADVERTISEMENT

Despite the emergence of deep divisions within the Progressive Conservative caucus, one of the architects of a proposal to merge the country's two right-wing parties says they've never been closer to achieving that goal.

Former Reform Party MP Ray Speaker, one of the six political insiders given the task of hammering out a deal between the Canadian Alliance and the Tories, said the parties have made headway on a number of fronts since talks started more than a month ago.

"I'm optimistic. This is the first time I've felt an element of confidence that the possibility is there for us to achieve," said Mr. Speaker, a former Alberta MP and a Reform Party founder.

Tory insiders, meanwhile, still rate the chances of reaching an agreement at less than 50-50. But despite efforts from both sides to publicly play down the nature of the talks, it appears they are at an advanced stage.

Confronted by leaked reports that dragged the previously private discussions into the public, the Tories held a special caucus meeting in Ottawa yesterday that one attendee described as "very frank and animated."

Several MPs were furious the details of the merger proposal had been made public, and after the meeting Conservative leader Peter MacKay said that while he wants to make "a genuine, concerted effort," he wouldn't be bullied into a deal.

"There will be no shotgun wedding, there will be no intimidation. ... I'm cautious about this, I'm looking for the best possible scenario that is going to present Canadians with an alternative, and at the end of the day it may be us," he said.

Discussions are continuing among representatives from both parties, who are working on a plan to consolidate the Tories and Alliance into a single party. The basis of that discussion is a 40-page document prepared by the Alliance that highlights 14 major points concerning the selection of a leader, of candidates and policy development.

Both parties have had input in modifying the various aspects of the proposal, although Mr. Speaker wouldn't discuss the changes. He did say the timeline for setting up the new party is "really tight right now," and added it's hoped the new party and the new leader would be in place early next year.

Whatever deal is reached, there will be obstacles within the Tory caucus, which Mr. MacKay acknowledged will have to be dealt with.

Mr. MacKay's caucus met in a Senate committee room yesterday just across the street from Parliament Hill, and while several MPs were tight-lipped when they emerged, New Brunswick Tory MP Greg Thompson, who left the meeting early, wasn't.

"Some of the differences between the Canadian Alliance party and ours are differences I'm not sure can ever be resolved," he said. "I have no intention of running as a small 'c' conservative under Stephen Harper or anyone else."

Mr. Thompson blamed the leaks on the Alliance and suggested they could bring the talks to a halt. Mr. Speaker, however, said the talks were scheduled to resume, but wouldn't specify when.

While there is considerable tension within the Tory caucus, Mr. Speaker said the Alliance representatives and their Tory counterparts, former deputy prime minister Don Mazankowski, former Ontario premier Bill Davis and current Newfoundland MP Loyola Hearn, understand the importance of joining forces.

"The participants have been very positive and very frank. ... There's a feeling that we're going to have a better opportunity than we've had in a long time to fight this government," Mr. Speaker said.

Both Speaker and Hearn said the current process differs in important ways from previous failed attempts to unite the right.

"It's not the same thing. ... Usually, before, it was something thrown about publicly which the press more or less negotiated between the leaders etc. Here you have more or less independent people exploring all possibilities," said Hearn. "I don't think the trust or the sincere desire, perhaps, to really do something was there on either side. I believe it is this time."