Israeli Attacks Derails American Efforts

[jdobbin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14101886/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14100258/

Hezbollah continues to use people as human shields. Israel fires at sites that fire weapons at them but hits unintended targets. It's a no win situation.

[Guest Warwick Green]

QANA, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross and Lebanese internal security sources at the scene said 54 people died, including 19 children....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/...main/index.html

I thought Israel was supposed to be using missles where they could pinpoint the target? 54 dead is one hell of a "mistake".

[jdobbin]

QANA, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross and Lebanese internal security sources at the scene said 54 people died, including 19 children....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/...main/index.html

I thought Israel was supposed to be using missles where they could pinpoint the target? 54 dead is one hell of a "mistake".

This article I posted elsewhere says that ground forces in Israel often are indifferent to what they hit despite what senior officers and government say.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...=Mark+MacKinnon

[Drea]

This article I posted elsewhere says that ground forces in Israel often are indifferent to what they hit despite what senior officers and government say.

Just like those American soilders who beat, torture, rape and kill? It's all done because they are not listening to orders? Pfft. They (Israeli, American) are soldiers who are doing what they are ordered to do -- don't kid yourself, it's purposeful and condoned by the "higher ups".

[Guest Warwick Green]

A New Enemy Gains on the U.S.

By THOM SHANKER

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/weekinre.../30shanker.html

Interesting article on Hezbollah and Network Warfare and the implications for fighting guerrillas.

[Leafless]

QANA, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross and Lebanese internal security sources at the scene said 54 people died, including 19 children....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/...main/index.html

I thought Israel was supposed to be using missles where they could pinpoint the target? 54 dead is one hell of a "mistake".

This is really a bit of a joke.

Although Hezbollah is better equipped as a military as far as weaponery goes they are BOTH in still in the TERRORIST league.

Why is the emphasis on Israel when Hezbollah CONTINUES to fire it's rockets using civilians as their SHIELDS.

HEZBOLLA must be removed but cannot be since it is Hezbolla that refuses to stop firing on Israel.

They are behaving in their normal way as a murderous killing machine taking advantage of an unarmed civilian population.

The countries that supply Hezbolla with weaponery should assume full responsibility for the deaths of innocent Lebanese civilians and European countries should retaliate against Arab countries that are doing this.

[jdobbin]

This is really a bit of a joke.

Although Hezbollah is better equipped as a military as far as weaponery goes they are BOTH in still in the TERRORIST league.

Why is the emphasis on Israel when Hezbollah CONTINUES to fire it's rockets using civilians as their SHIELDS.

HEZBOLLA must be removed but cannot be since it is Hezbolla that refuses to stop firing on Israel.

They are behaving in their normal way as a murderous killing machine taking advantage of an unarmed civilian population.

The countries that supply Hezbolla with weaponery should assume full responsibility for the deaths of innocent Lebanese civilians and European countries should retaliate against Arab countries that are doing this.

No one is stopping Israel. They can do what they want there.

[WillyNilly]

This article I posted elsewhere says that ground forces in Israel often are indifferent to what they hit despite what senior officers and government say.

Fanatics are fanatics, and the Zionists are right up there with some of the worst extremist fanatics in the world. Look up Zionist history. This is one of the reasons they were originally expelled from Russia and Germany BEFORE WWII, before Hitler.

The majority of Israel soldiers in Lebanon and attacking Lebanon have ONE purpose, and that is to kill every Arab, regardless of age, gender, citizenship or political affiliation.

I don't believe the Israel Government has any more control over the extremists than does the Lebanese Government. The difference is that Israel has unleashed their extremists.

The Zionist stated this when they first settled in the region, and they haven't changed their minds on this.

There is a world of difference between your ordinary, run of the mill Jewish religion and the Zionist movement.

[Guest Warwick Green]

HEZBOLLA must be removed but cannot be since it is Hezbolla that refuses to stop firing on Israel.

I suspect that if Hezbolla stopped firing on Israel, Israel would continue on taking out Hezbolla positions. Their objective is clearly to destroy Hezbolla.

[Leafless]

HEZBOLLA must be removed but cannot be since it is Hezbolla that refuses to stop firing on Israel.

I suspect that if Hezbolla stopped firing on Israel, Israel would continue on taking out Hezbolla positions. Their objective is clearly to destroy Hezbolla.

That is pure speculation.

At the moment it seems Israel does not want to give Hezbollah any benefit concerning setting up permanent positions within Lebanon and I can't say I blame them considering Hezbollah's recent use of more accurate missles rather than rockets that are not nearly as accurate.

[Guest Warwick Green]

HEZBOLLA must be removed but cannot be since it is Hezbolla that refuses to stop firing on Israel.

I suspect that if Hezbolla stopped firing on Israel, Israel would continue on taking out Hezbolla positions. Their objective is clearly to destroy Hezbolla.

That is pure speculation.

At the moment it seems Israel does not want to give Hezbollah any benefit concerning setting up permanent positions within Lebanon and I can't say I blame them considering Hezbollah's recent use of more accurate missles rather than rockets that are not nearly as accurate.

If Israel's objective is solely to have Hezbolla stop firing on them they should be agreeable to a cease fire.

[Leafless]

If Israel's objective is solely to have Hezbolla stop firing on them they should be agreeable to a cease fire.

You must view Hezbollah as some sort of legitimate which they are not.

The fact is Israel is ageeable to a cease fire providing Hezbollah the terrorist organization that is the cause of the recent mayhem is disarmed first.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

[Guest Warwick Green]

If Israel's objective is solely to have Hezbolla stop firing on them they should be agreeable to a cease fire.

You must view Hezbollah as some sort of legitimate which they are not.

The fact is Israel is ageeable to a cease fire providing Hezbollah the terrorist organization that is the cause of the recent mayhem is disarmed first.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

That goes back to my original comment, "I suspect that if Hezbolla stopped firing on Israel, Israel would continue on taking out Hezbolla positions. Their objective is clearly to destroy Hezbolla". I'll modify it to this degree, "In the unlikely event Hezbolla agreed to disarm Israel would agree to a ceasefire".

I doubt that Hezbolla will ever be destroyed as such. There will always be other groups that will rise (courtesy of Iran) to take its place.

[Guest Warwick Green]

Israel halts attacks for 48 hours

Airstrike killing dozens of civilians called a 'mistake'

Israel has agreed to suspend airstrikes on southern Lebanon for 48 hours to investigate a Sunday airstrike that killed more than 60 people in Qana, Lebanon, a U.S. State Department spokesman said.

Spokesman Adam Ereli said the Israelis reserve the right to take action against targets preparing attacks against it during the 48-hour period, but the bombing halt should "significantly speed and improve the flow of humanitarian aid." Israeli officials also agreed to allow safe passage for 24 hours for residents of southern Lebanon to leave the region....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/...main/index.html

[Argus]

QANA, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel said it mistakenly destroyed a four-story building near a Hezbollah rocket-launching site in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday where the Red Cross and Lebanese internal security sources at the scene said 54 people died, including 19 children....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/30/...main/index.html

I thought Israel was supposed to be using missles where they could pinpoint the target? 54 dead is one hell of a "mistake".

Please. You people seem to have a bizarre belief in the perfection of American targeting systems. Didn't the fact they killed more of their own people in both Gulf 1 and 2 than the Iraqis did teach you anything? Besides, not every bomb is a smart bomb, and not every Israeli soldier, sailor and airman know exactly where the bad guys are as opposed to the civilians in every town, village and block at every given moment of the day.

[Argus]

This article I posted elsewhere says that ground forces in Israel often are indifferent to what they hit despite what senior officers and government say.

Fanatics are fanatics, and the Zionists are right up there with some of the worst extremist fanatics in the world. Look up Zionist history. This is one of the reasons they were originally expelled from Russia and Germany BEFORE WWII, before Hitler.

You have a citation for that which doesn't come from a web site which questions the Holocaust? I can see no evidence that there was ever an anti-zionist expulsion in Germany or Russia. There was certainly horrific anti-semitism in both, in much of Europe, and frequent pogroms in Russia before and after the communist revolution. Marx himself was a noted anti-semite, and the ideology of the new Russia reflected that, and to a large extent, Russia is still extremly anti-semitic. But that nothing to do with zionism. It had to do with ignorance, bigotry and hatred.

The majority of Israel soldiers in Lebanon and attacking Lebanon have ONE purpose, and that is to kill every Arab, regardless of age, gender, citizenship or political affiliation.

Complete and utter drivel. Anyone with more than half a brain can look at the weapons, armour and numbers of the IDF, look at what's opposing them, and quickly realize that if they wanted to just kill Arabs there'd be a hell of a lot more dead Arabs.

There is a world of difference between your ordinary, run of the mill Jewish religion and the Zionist movement.

You don't appear to differentiate much between the Zionists you despise and these "good jews", none of whom, apparently, are in the IDF. You also, btw, don't appear to know anything about Zionism. Here are a couple of links to help you along, one on the anti-semitism of Russia, the other on the history of Zionism.

Judeophobia in Russia

Early history of Zionism, causes and beliefs

[Argus]

This article I posted elsewhere says that ground forces in Israel often are indifferent to what they hit despite what senior officers and government say.

Just like those American soilders who beat, torture, rape and kill? It's all done because they are not listening to orders? Pfft. They (Israeli, American) are soldiers who are doing what they are ordered to do -- don't kid yourself, it's purposeful and condoned by the "higher ups".

Do you have any evidence of this or is just a theory based on not liking Americans and Israelis?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Argus,

I can see no evidence that there was ever an anti-zionist expulsion in Germany or Russia. There was certainly horrific anti-semitism in both, in much of Europe, and frequent pogroms in Russia before and after the communist revolution

Most every large country in Europe, including Britain, ordered the expulsion of the Jews at one time or another.

[Argus]

Dear Argus,

I can see no evidence that there was ever an anti-zionist expulsion in Germany or Russia. There was certainly horrific anti-semitism in both, in much of Europe, and frequent pogroms in Russia before and after the communist revolution

Most every large country in Europe, including Britain, ordered the expulsion of the Jews at one time or another.

I know that. But that's not what he was saying he said, and I quote "Fanatics are fanatics, and the Zionists are right up there with some of the worst extremist fanatics in the world. Look up Zionist history. This is one of the reasons they were originally expelled from Russia and Germany".

The Jews were not expelled because of some kind of mythical dislike of "zionism" which he decries, but because they were Jews.

[Argus]

Interesting reading sometimes on that Lebanese expats forum someone linked to earlier. As in the following thread.

“Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from between our houses.”

“Please,’’ he added, “write that in your newspaper.”

Many Christians from Ramesh and Ain Ebel considered Hezbollah’s fighting methods as much of an outrage as the Israeli strikes. Mr. Amar said Hezbollah fighters in groups of two and three had come into Ain Ebel, less than a mile from Bint Jbail, where most of the fighting has occurred. They were using it as a base to shoot rockets, he said, and the Israelis fired back.

One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.

“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said.

Lebanese Forum

[Black Dog]

IDF changes Qana story

As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

[Figleaf]

IDF changes Qana story

As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

This is not at all surprising -- the IDF continues to demonstrate a highly interpretive approach to the truth.