Options for Lebanon

[cybercoma]

from www.dictionary.com

fas·cism

n.

1. often fascism
   1. 
      
   2. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
      
   3. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
      

[*]oppressive, dictatorial control.

With their view of turning the world over to Islam and forcing people to follow the blatantly oppressive rules of Sharia Law, and by using violence as a means to attain this end, I would say that "Islamo-Fascist" is pretty accurate.

And I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in saying they'd love to convert the world to Islam....really they just want to "kill the Infidels."

[mcqueen625]

The Lebanese should surrender.

The Lebanese aren't at war.

I respectively disagree, since their are members of Hezbollah who are part and parcel of the Lebanese government, jsut as Hamas are part and parcel of the Palestinian government. Lebanon had the opportunity to disarm Hezbollah and in fact under the terms of the U.N. Agreement for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon on I believe 2000, Lebanon was supposed to disarm Hezbollah, but they chose not to do that. I would take that as the Lebanese government sanctioning whatever Hezbollah does. I remember a Canadian family member of those killed in Lebanon as publically stating that Hezbollah was their protector. If that is the case then the blame for the deaths of his family member's should be placed where it belongs, on the shoulders of Hezbollah who invaded Israel, killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens from their own land, and lets not forget the thousands of rockets that have been fired specifically at civilian targets inside Israel by Hezbollah. His family members received some pay-back for Hezbollah's actions, and that is unfortunate, but they chose to put themselves in harms way.

[Argus]

The Lebanese should surrender.

The Lebanese aren't at war.

I respectively disagree, since their are members of Hezbollah who are part and parcel of the Lebanese government, jsut as Hamas are part and parcel of the Palestinian government. Lebanon had the opportunity to disarm Hezbollah and in fact under the terms of the U.N. Agreement for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon on I believe 2000, Lebanon was supposed to disarm Hezbollah, but they chose not to do that. I would take that as the Lebanese government sanctioning whatever Hezbollah does. I remember a Canadian family member of those killed in Lebanon as publically stating that Hezbollah was their protector. If that is the case then the blame for the deaths of his family member's should be placed where it belongs, on the shoulders of Hezbollah who invaded Israel, killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens from their own land, and lets not forget the thousands of rockets that have been fired specifically at civilian targets inside Israel by Hezbollah. His family members received some pay-back for Hezbollah's actions, and that is unfortunate, but they chose to put themselves in harms way.

According to recent polls 87% of Lebanese support Hezbollah. In that case, one can say that they all deserve what they get from the IDF.

[geoffrey]

The Lebanese should surrender.

The Lebanese aren't at war.

I respectively disagree, since their are members of Hezbollah who are part and parcel of the Lebanese government, jsut as Hamas are part and parcel of the Palestinian government. Lebanon had the opportunity to disarm Hezbollah and in fact under the terms of the U.N. Agreement for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon on I believe 2000, Lebanon was supposed to disarm Hezbollah, but they chose not to do that. I would take that as the Lebanese government sanctioning whatever Hezbollah does. I remember a Canadian family member of those killed in Lebanon as publically stating that Hezbollah was their protector. If that is the case then the blame for the deaths of his family member's should be placed where it belongs, on the shoulders of Hezbollah who invaded Israel, killed and kidnapped Israeli citizens from their own land, and lets not forget the thousands of rockets that have been fired specifically at civilian targets inside Israel by Hezbollah. His family members received some pay-back for Hezbollah's actions, and that is unfortunate, but they chose to put themselves in harms way.

There were IRA members in the Irish parliment (still are, no?), did that mean that the British should have carpet bombed Ireland? Of course not.

Just because a few areas of the country are so downtrodden that Hezbollah can come in and give them everything they need (hence getting elected), it doesn't mean that Lebanon supports Hezbollah.

Think of it this way, most of the country did vote against them, an overwelming majority voted for peace and seperation from Syrian influence. They are a peaceful people.

The recent increases in support for Hezbollah, even though I think they are drastically overstated, are expected. If a foreign government attacked my family indiscriminately, to punish me for something I had no hand in, I'd be a little pissed too.

[cybercoma]

Nice geoffrey. Israel attacked civilians indiscriminately, did they?

Give your head a shake.

[geoffrey]

Nice geoffrey. Israel attacked civilians indiscriminately, did they?

Give your head a shake.

Of course they did, bombing apartment complexes will without a doubt kill civilians. That's attacking indiscriminately.

Indiscriminate means not discriminating between the good guys and the bad guys. That's what Israel is doing. They are punishing everyone for the actions of a few. They are killing mostly innocent civilians. No Hezbollah leaders were harmed in that entire campaign, it accomplished nothing.

So you tell me.

[Rue]

Nice geoffrey. Israel attacked civilians indiscriminately, did they?

Give your head a shake.

Of course they did, bombing apartment complexes will without a doubt kill civilians. That's attacking indiscriminately.

Indiscriminate means not discriminating between the good guys and the bad guys. That's what Israel is doing. They are punishing everyone for the actions of a few. They are killing mostly innocent civilians. No Hezbollah leaders were harmed in that entire campaign, it accomplished nothing.

So you tell me.

So I will tell you.....if we follow your logic, as long as a terrorist uses a human as a shield, the person being attacked by the terrorist, has no right to defend himself- that makes no sense.

What you are doing is assigning culpability on Israel for the fact that Hezbollah deliberately placed civilians in harms way as shields. That is illogical.

The problem with your anology is that it is simplistic and ignores the moral culpability component. If civilians die it is squarely as a result of Hezbollah's decision to have placed them in the line of fire, and now as thousands of Lebanese go back to their rubble, they are beginning to realize they were used by Hezbollah.

This notion you can simply state Israel is not allowed to do anything because Hezbollah uses humans as shields is b.s. Israel has a moral responsibility to defend its citizens and yes even if this means killing Lebanese civilians-is it preferable...no...does anyone truly want it to happen no...but there are no choices in such conflicts.

See it is easy for you to say Israel was indiscriminate but I notice you remain silent on Hezbollah...why? why the double standard?

The fact is Hezbollah used civilians indiscriminately as human shields and that led to their death-simple as that.

You want to blame Israel for defending itself....go ahead...its precisely what Hezbollah wants you do to do...its precisely what terrorists are good at, killing people then manipulating their deaths for political

shock value and you walk right into it...

Here is also why I do not take what you say seriously...people like you shoot off at the mouth about how Israel is indiscriminate....but never will someone like you explain what it is Israel is supposed to do to defend itself from extermination....that you remain silent on...you buy into this double standard that Hezbollah and Muslim terrorists can do what-ever they want with no consequences, but if Israel tries to defend its right to exist, its evil. Well guess what-when people are surrounded by terrorists threatening to kill each and every last one of them...they could care less what some soft, sheltered, naive, Canadian living in the suburbs and getting his slice of reality from t.v. or web sites has to say.

So you asked me to tell you...I did.

[Black Dog]

...people like you shoot off at the mouth about how Israel is indiscriminate....but never will someone like you explain what it is Israel is supposed to do to defend itself from extermination

You're setting up a false choice here. For one, you seem to operate on the flawed premise that the course of action chosen by Israel (intensive areial bombardement of infrastructure and a limited ground war) is the only alternative to "extermination" (an equally flawed premise).

[Army Guy]

BD:

You're setting up a false choice here. For one, you seem to operate on the flawed premise that the course of action chosen by Israel (intensive areial bombardement of infrastructure and a limited ground war) is the only alternative to "extermination" (an equally flawed premise).

So what are thier choices, keeping in mind the present day situation, present attitude of both sides on the border, and for good measure lets throw the terrorist in lets not forget them.

What does Israel have to do for peace, i mean going to the market without an Uzi.

Israel actions to date where of ones that the west allowed them to do nothing more. Israel took a chance with world opinion and got as much out of it as they could... The hezbullah got more than they could chew. but i think they got the message now, but for how long...

[cybercoma]

Jeez...stole my thunder.

[Argus]

There were IRA members in the Irish parliment (still are, no?), did that mean that the British should have carpet bombed Ireland? Of course not.

The Irish government, despite its sympathies with the ultimate aims of the IRA, took strong measures to thrwart attacks on Northern Ireland from their territory, had a strong presence of troops patrolling the border, and arrested and strongly prosecuted terrorists whenever it caught them.

The Lebanese government says "eh, not our problem".

Just because a few areas of the country are so downtrodden that Hezbollah can come in and give them everything they need (hence getting elected), it doesn't mean that Lebanon supports Hezbollah.

A few areas? Forty percent of the population, you mean.