Harper & Israeli Invasion of Lebanon

[jbg]

Israel is acting in a manner that defends the interests of their citizens, I can only hope that other nations do the same.

I guess you're happy so long as they aren't bombing your children.

Well maybe these sudden pacifists should have thought of that when they voted Hezbollah into a minority position in the Lebanese government?

[August1991]

If we take an average of 50 people a day for an entire year we get about 20,000 people being killed in Iraq each year by car bombs. Also the population sizes are way different and not to mention that more vehicles are in the US than in Iraq. Does not seem like a fair comparison.

Yesterday was a bad day for Iraqi car bombs. Current Iraqi civilian casualties are around 40,000. That's an average of about 40/day in a three-year war or about the same as Israel "flattening" Lebanon in 10 days.

In southern Thailand, there is an Islamist insurgency that has left over 1000 dead in the past two years. These deaths attract little attention. Now, which is more tragic?

It is a shame that the MSM does not present this to us. We have to go to alternate news sources to get real information.

The "war" in southern Thailand deserves another thread. I'll simply add here that it's not "sexy" yet it deserves attention because of what it says about Islamists.

Admittedly he was Iraqi, not Lebanese...

And Palestinian, not Lebanese

When you characterize a nation for sending their children off to be terrorists, you should at least characteriize the right nation.

The Lebanese don't generally send their children off to war. I'm doubtful if many in Lebanon really want Israel to disppear.

In fact, the IDF is fighting Shia teenagers, urged on by Iranian madmen and oil money, and everyone else is suffering.

[August1991]

Why oh why can't Israeli's apologists make an argument without putting words in somebody's mouth? I did not make any moral judgement one way or another on the tactic of blending into civilian populations, but simply stated that such tactics are charateristic of guerrilla warfare everywhere its practiced.

BD, you got it right there. Israel, this time, has taken the moral highground.

The Palestinians chose Hamas and the Shia Lebanese chose Hizballah. In the court of world media public opinion, Hizballah and Hamas lose. They are the ones on the defensive. They are in the wrong.

-----

Getting back to this thread's title, Harper has done this right. In the eyes of all Canadians, Harper took a clear position. No more bafflegab. Harper didn't fudge (as most of the Liberal leadership candidates have done).

Harper's position is not only clear (and principled) but it also appears to be "right", given world public opinion. No one is defending Hizballah now except a few Lebanese returnees.

It remains only to determine whether Canadian public opinion will agree with Harper.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

It remains only to determine whether Canadian public opinion will agree with Harper.

Mine doesn't, in this case, but I do respect that he has a desire to avoid phrased equivocation.

The Palestinians chose Hamas and the Shia Lebanese chose Hizballah. In the court of world media public opinion, Hizballah and Hamas lose. They are the ones on the defensive. They are in the wrong.

Oversimplification. Further, I don't believe 'world public opinion' is quite so galvanized in it's judgement of the situation.

Why do you suppose that some who fight foreign occupation are in one case called 'terrorists' (though they may not have ever killed a civilian, and in other cases, sometimes justifiably 'guerrilla fighters') while no one dare call them 'Minutemen'?

[August1991]

Columnist Don Martin agrees with me:

Like it or loathe it, there's no wiggle room in Harper's position. Gone are the days when the Liberal government would search for a "firm but flexible" position to try to appease everybody.

....

The payoff for his positions so far was rapturous reception by a 5,000-strong audience at a Wednesday rally in the last-stand Liberal fortress of Toronto, which should give the Official Opposition pause to gulp.

And reaction in the Lebanese community has been fragmented. Six Lebanese leaders published a letter siding wholeheartedly with Harper's stance.

The only penalty has been confined to modest Arab community protests and dire warnings from talking-head academia that Canada's reputation as an honest broker in the region has been compromised. But, honestly, the only brokering in Middle East conflicts occurs when peace accidentally breaks out after an unacceptable casualty count has been reached.

...

So far, so good, it would seem. A vacationing public unaccustomed to decisive leadership seems generally supportive and is only reacting badly to the Middle East conflict when they pay soaring gas prices while filling up the RVs. As a long-term poll pleaser, Harper has delivered measured response.

CanWest

The main point is that Harper took a clear stand. The Chretien fudge is no longer an option and the smart Liberal leadership candidates are beginning to understand that.

OTOH, there is a loud urban academic media leftist cacaphony but they'd never vote for Harper anyway.

[jdobbin]

OTOH, there is a loud urban academic media leftist cacaphony but they'd never vote for Harper anyway.

It is still early. And it isn't Lebanon that Harper is likely worried about. It's Afghanistan where support keeps slipping.

[WillyNilly]

The main point is that Harper took a clear stand

The main point is that Harper took Bush's firm stand, which changes the world's perception of Canada. Bush has no sympathy for Canadians in Lebanon or Israel, why should he? They arent "his" people. Bush has no sympathy for the Peacekeepers, and observers, they arent American .. but they ARE Canadian and Harper should have stood by "his people" but he didnt.

[Argus]

The main point is that Harper took a clear stand

The main point is that Harper took Bush's firm stand, which changes the world's perception of Canada.

The only "perception" the world has of Canada is a place full of snow, ice and gay mounties.

This bizarre misconception among lefties that Canada had some kind of world-famous reputation for fairness and neutrality and being an "honest broker" has nothing behind it but fantasy. Nobody ever asks "I wonder what Canada would think". Nobody ever suggest Canada arbitrate international disputes. Nobody ever cares a whit about what Canada thinks or wants or says on any subject whatsoever. We are internatioal non-entities.

During the coverage of the G8 meeting on the BBC and in British and US media, the Lebanon problem was portrayed as a dispute between the US and UK on the one hand, and the French and Russians on the other. Canada's support for Israel was never mentioned. Nobody cared.

[geoffrey]

Israel is acting in a manner that defends the interests of their citizens, I can only hope that other nations do the same.

I guess you're happy so long as they aren't bombing your children.

Well maybe these sudden pacifists should have thought of that when they voted Hezbollah into a minority position in the Lebanese government?

They got 10% of the vote thanks, not a minority power position. The government is moderate in Lebanon and not anti-Israel. They are extremely against the better armed then they are Hezbollah. The FLQ would have drawn higher numbers during their existance if they ran for govenrment (which arguably they do, the political wing of the movement)... let's get the British to bomb those moronic terrorist Canadians. I mean, how could they be so stupid?