Dual Citizenship....an abuse of privilege?

[Canuck E Stan]

IN reading of all the "Canadians" in Lebanon, some 40,000 have dual citizenship but live only in Lebanon.

One has to wonder if getting a Canadian citizenship might be just "to easy".

It appears being Canadian has lots of "value" for those outside of Canada,maybe we should make it even more valuable by restricting it to being the only citizenship allowed.

Dual Citizenship

Unlike the law in effect in Canada up to 1977, the current Citizenship Act allows Canadian citizens to acquire a foreign nationality without automatically losing their Canadian citizenship.

The current act thus makes it possible to have two or more citizenships and allegiances at the same time for an indefinite period.

Since February 15, 1977, a Canadian citizen who acquires another nationality may retain Canadian citizenship.

I think we should go back to singular citizenship recognition.

If you want to be Canadian,then you must only be Canadian and renounce any other citizenship you may have.

If you believe in Canada then Canada comes first.

How do you feel about not allowing dual citizenship?

[jdobbin]

IN reading of all the "Canadians" in Lebanon, some 40,000 have dual citizenship but live only in Lebanon.

One has to wonder if getting a Canadian citizenship might be just "to easy".

It appears being Canadian has lots of "value" for those outside of Canada,maybe we should make it even more valuable by restricting it to being the only citizenship allowed.

Dual Citizenship

Unlike the law in effect in Canada up to 1977, the current Citizenship Act allows Canadian citizens to acquire a foreign nationality without automatically losing their Canadian citizenship.

The current act thus makes it possible to have two or more citizenships and allegiances at the same time for an indefinite period.

Since February 15, 1977, a Canadian citizen who acquires another nationality may retain Canadian citizenship.

I think we should go back to singular citizenship recognition.

If you want to be Canadian,then you must only be Canadian and renounce any other citizenship you may have.

If you believe in Canada then Canada comes first.

How do you feel about not allowing dual citizenship?

There are possibly over 100,000 or more Canadians citizens living in Israel as well. is it only Lebanese Canadians that you are worried about? My wife is a dual citizen of Canada and Britain. Is that a problem for the few hundred thousand Canadians living in Britain who also have Canadian citizenship?

[August1991]

In practical terms, it is impossible to force applicants for Canadian citizenship to give up any other citizenship. Such a rule is simply unenforceable. The US tried for many years and then changed its citizenship law and accepted dual citizenship.

OTOH, Canada could tighten up how citizenship is given.

PS. Do we need another thread on this topic?

[Canuck E Stan]

PS. Do we need another thread on this topic?

Did a seaarch on dual citizenship,nothing came up.

Not to be critical but,maybe with 5,700 posts under your belt you've come across the topic more than the rest of us.

Sorry if I started an old topic.

There are possibly over 100,000 or more Canadians citizens living in Israel as well. is it only Lebanese Canadians that you are worried about? My wife is a dual citizen of Canada and Britain. Is that a problem for the few hundred thousand Canadians living in Britain who also have Canadian citizenship?

How much of a burden on Canadians living in Canada will all these Dualies have on Canada when they decide they need Canada when they are in bad health or in need of old age pensions?

Citizenship in my opinion is too easy to get in Canada...3 years seems to be too short of a waiting period.

Yes we should tighten up the rules, and for me, not allow dual citizenship.

[gerryhatrick]

IN reading of all the "Canadians" in Lebanon, some 40,000 have dual citizenship but live only in Lebanon.

Where did you read 40,000 had "dual citizenship"?

Since February 15, 1977, a Canadian citizen who acquires another nationality may retain Canadian citizenship.

I think we should go back to singular citizenship recognition.

If people want to become citizens of the world we should let them. Your suggestion seems like a step backwards.

I take offence to the attack on Canadian citizens in Lebanon at this time and the suggestion that they're not real Canadians.

Where does the end of judging who is a "real Canadian" begin and where does it end?

Who decides?

It smacks of the worst kind of fascism.

[jdobbin]

How much of a burden on Canadians living in Canada will all these Dualies have on Canada when they decide they need Canada when they are in bad health or in need of old age pensions?

Citizenship in my opinion is too easy to get in Canada...3 years seems to be too short of a waiting period.

Yes we should tighten up the rules, and for me, not allow dual citizenship.

I have no idea what the cost is. Harper is the guy now to change the rules. It wasn't part of his platform though.

If he fails to carry it out, you could vote against him next election.

[jdobbin]

Where did you read 40,000 had "dual citizenship"?

The CBC is reporting that the federal government now estimates that there are 50,000 Canadians in Lebanon. They don't mention whether they are dual citizens.

[August1991]

I take offence to the attack on Canadian citizens in Lebanon at this time and the suggestion that they're not real Canadians.

Where does the end of judging who is a "real Canadian" begin and where does it end?

Who decides?

It smacks of the worst kind of fascism.

Fascism? No Gerry, it's not fascism. Fascism is the silencing of ordinary people who ask legitimate questions. And in Canada today, asking "Who is a Canadian?" strikes me as a perfectly legitimate question. It certainly concerns the people who can be nothing else but Canadian. We are sharing our birthright with others.

So, Gerry. What is a Canadian?

[August1991]

Did a seaarch on dual citizenship,nothing came up.

Not to be critical but,maybe with 5,700 posts under your belt you've come across the topic more than the rest of us.

Sorry if I started an old topic.

Canuck, mike david started another thread today. Here's my post there on the issue.

For the sake of clarity, let's (try and) post in this thread only.

It's important and deserves a non-PC discussion. As Canadian citizens, who else do we let in to the "club" and let travel around the world in our name?

[gerryhatrick]

I take offence to the attack on Canadian citizens in Lebanon at this time and the suggestion that they're not real Canadians.

Where does the end of judging who is a "real Canadian" begin and where does it end?

Who decides?

It smacks of the worst kind of fascism.

Fascism? No Gerry, it's not fascism. Fascism is the silencing of ordinary people who ask legitimate questions. And in Canada today, asking "Who is a Canadian?" strikes me as a perfectly legitimate question. It certainly concerns the people who can be nothing else but Canadian. We are sharing our birthright with others.

So, Gerry. What is a Canadian?

Fascism:

Wikipedia:

Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism.

Websters:

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual

extreme nationalism? nation & race above the individual? No, I think I've got the right word. There are probably more but this one works.

That's what it smells like to me. Do you have any idea how many dual citizen Italians there are, who love their country and visit all the time? Not to mention all the other nationalities. Lebanese are a worthy addition to the Country, regardless of how long they've been here or if they visit family back in Lebanon with their young Canadian-born children or not.

What is all this anyway? Some Lebanese Canadians get killed and suddenly there's a crop of people trashing dual citizens? Does it smell to anybody else?

[August1991]

extreme nationalism? nation & race above the individual? No, I think I've got the right word. There are probably more but this one works.

Gerry, I frankly don't give a shit how wikipedia (of all sources) or an Internet webster's defines fascism. For me, fascism is the silencing of legitimate dissent.

Lebanese are a worthy addition to the Country, regardless of how long they've been here or if they visit family back in Lebanon with their young Canadian-born children or not.

Gerry, maybe the Lebanese are a "worthy" addition to Canada. There are 6 billion people in the world. Are they all worthy of addition?

Should we refuse no one membership in this club called "Canada"? (If we refuse someone, isn't that, you know, discrimination? Maybe we should accept everyone who applies.)

Where and how do you draw the line, Gerry?

What is a Canadian?

[geoffrey]

How about they must live here 6 months plus a day of the year otherwise they give it up?

It seems ridiculous to have to pay for the evacuation of what is really just Lebanese people that have a nice card to give them a cruise ship to Cypress. I wonder how many live in Canada actually. I know the French and US numbers are considerably lower, like... 50 times lower, and they should theoretically be higher (US being bigger and France being both bigger and the former parent state of Lebanon).

[gerryhatrick]

extreme nationalism? nation & race above the individual? No, I think I've got the right word. There are probably more but this one works.

Gerry, I frankly don't give a shit how wikipedia (of all sources) or an Internet webster's defines fascism. For me, fascism is the silencing of legitimate dissent.

Well, I guess someone better submit that definition to the Wikipedia editors or Websters. I suspect if I wasn't so lazy and went to fetch my Oxfords dictionary (hard-bound, that get any cred from you?) it would have pretty much the same definitions that I just found.

Should we refuse no one membership in this club called "Canada"? (If we refuse someone, isn't that, you know, discrimination? Maybe we should accept everyone who applies.)

Where and how do you draw the line, Gerry?

If you want the question answered in the context of the topic and the ridiculous complaints about dual citizenship then the answer is no, we do not refuse "membership in this club" if people have other citizenships or require them to give up other citizenships.

It's a backwards idea.

I don't know how I can be any clearer on that.

What is a Canadian?

Someone with a Canadian citizenship. Once someone has attained a Canadian citizenship they are Canadian. Perhaps it can be removed if they lied on their application for example, but otherwise they are our Canadian brothers and sisters.

[gerryhatrick]

It seems ridiculous to have to pay for the evacuation of what is really just Lebanese people that have a nice card to give them a cruise ship to Cypress. I wonder how many live in Canada actually.

They are Canadian citizens. What is so hard to understand about that?

Regarding how many live in Canada, the four little children killed did, along with some of not all of the adults killed.

I've brought up the issue of other nationalities like Italians, but nobody seems to have the balls to answer to it. Would these same sentiments be rearing their head if it was a European country? Don't think so.

How many Italian-Canadians do you think are in Italy right now? Or Portugese?

This is a bizarre singling out of an Arab country. Not pretty to watch.

[geoffrey]

Actually alot of the Lebanese Canadians are Christian, so it's not a Islamophobic response. I'd have the same thoughts if I had to foot the bill for 50,000 Italian-Canadians that rarely visit Canada to escape a volcano or something like that.

[August1991]

What is a Canadian?

Someone with a Canadian citizenship. Once someone has attained a Canadian citizenship they are Canadian. Perhaps it can be removed if they lied on their application for example, but otherwise they are our Canadian brothers and sisters.

Lied on their application? And what does their application involve?

Gerry, it's frightening to consider that for you, Canadian citizenship is merely a question of completing an application form, honestly.

----

Gerry, I'll offer a fact to consider. Elsewhere, I provided a link to statistics showing that Canada accepts about 200,000 immigrants every year (perhaps 230,000) but about 70,000 people leave Canada every year. Net immigration to Canada is between 130,000 - 160,000.

Many of the 70,000 go to the US or return home. Let me consider those who go to the US. Canada is a "US waiting room". Around the world, people know that immigration to Canada is one way to immigrate to the US. Gerry, how do you feel that Canada pre-selects immigrants for the US?

No one in Canada talks about this because open discussions about immigration are "not politically correct". They even seem to trump discussions of anti-Americanism. Any discussion of immigration immediately invites the Left to play the "race card", as you have done:

I've brought up the issue of other nationalities like Italians, but nobody seems to have the balls to answer to it. Would these same sentiments be rearing their head if it was a European country? Don't think so.

Sorry. I will shut up now. My legitimate question will fall silent to your fascist political correctness. I was mistaken to intrude with my questions. (And you, like so many fascists before you, will believe that you have the support of the people because you hear no dissent.)

[BHS]

It's as simple as this: a Canadian is a person with a Canadian citizenship, period. Race and ethnic background don't enter into it. Dual citizenship doesn't count for anything in my book. You're either Canadian, and only Canadian, or you're something else and I don't feel any commitment to you. Expecting me to feel like I owe you something is beyond reasonable. Come to Canada and join our society with full conviction, or stay the hell where you came from. The choice is yours.

People who take out a Canadian citizenship as an insurance policy, for when old age or local chaos make life in their preferred country unbearable, have no right to demand that I fix their problems for them. And I refuse, point blank, to feel like I owe them something, or to put up with the notion that I'm a "fascist" or whatever other spurious slur gerry and his ilk can come up with.

[Argus]

What is a Canadian?

Someone with a Canadian citizenship. Once someone has attained a Canadian citizenship they are Canadian. Perhaps it can be removed if they lied on their application for example, but otherwise they are our Canadian brothers and sisters.

Lied on their application? And what does their application involve?

Gerry, it's frightening to consider that for you, Canadian citizenship is merely a question of completing an application form, honestly.

On the other hand, he says I'm less of a Canadian than anyone on Earth. Gerry likes to be the inclusive kind when it comes to the world. It's just the Canadian-born he despises. We're all Fascists and racists and scum.

[Leafless]

Where did you read 40,000 had "dual citizenship"?

The CBC is reporting that the federal government now estimates that there are 50,000 Canadians in Lebanon. They don't mention whether they are dual citizens.

The latest on that although unconfirmed is that there are 5,000 Lebanese that are PERMANENT residents of Lebanon that also hold Canadian citizenship that want also to be evacuated.

I agree Canada needs better protection to ensure Canadians are indeed Canadians and are contributing to Canada and support Canadian ideologies.

The ONLY countries that support dual citizenship are Canada, France, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Switzerland, United States (usually) and the United Kingdom.

Countries whose nationals lose citizenship upon voluntary acquisition of another citizenship- Austria, Australia, China, Denmark, Germany, India, Japan, Korea, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden.

IMO Canada is to SMALL of a country to allow dual citizenship since it is entirely possible we could easily take on the characteristics of another country who has a strong influence on existing Canadian customs, traditions, in other words steal our identity.

There is also the factor of the transmission of contagious serious diseases that could be devastating to Canada like what previously seen in Toronto with heavy travel by part time Canadians travelling back and fourth to third world countries.

Another controversial factor is Canada being dragged into foreign wars by immigrants from troublesome third world countries who demand Canadian support in favour of their mother country and or rescue operations from their troubled countries.

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/Lo.../BP/bp445-e.htm

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/gener...enship-act.html

[Argus]

There are possibly over 100,000 or more Canadians citizens living in Israel as well. is it only Lebanese Canadians that you are worried about? My wife is a dual citizen of Canada and Britain. Is that a problem for the few hundred thousand Canadians living in Britain who also have Canadian citizenship?

We give out citizenship far too easily, and it is being abused. It is well-known, for example, that women in certain countries, ie, India and Pakistan, will fly to Canada on tourist visas when they're ready to give birth. This makes their kids "Canadians". They then fly home with their "Canadian" kids, who, when they reach adulthood, can return and sponsor their relatives. They also get the full benefits of citizenship, including health care, if it's worked right. And you can bet that whenever any of those 50,000 "Canadians" who were born in Lebananon, and who live in Lebanon, gets desperately sick and needs an expensive operation they fly to Canada so we can pay for it.

As for why people aren't terribly upset about dual Canadians who are Israeli or Italian - it's because those countries are well-off and have good social service nets. The problem is with dirt poor cesspools like Lebanon and Pakistan and India.

[Charles Anthony]

I do not give a damn about what a person's "citizenship" happens to be or how they got it or how many they have or where they are born.

Questioning what makes a Canadian citizen does not seem to lead to a concensus. Thus, I question whether it matters.

I am not going to treat a person differently.

The interaction that I have with people on a daily basis depends very little on their citizenship.

The concept of modern-day citizenship is mainly for the purposes of collecting income tax and nothing more.

will fly to Canada on tourist visas when they're ready to give birth. This makes their kids "Canadians". They then fly home with their "Canadian" kids, who, when they reach adulthood, can return and sponsor their relatives. They also get the full benefits of citizenship, including health care, if it's worked right.

If collecting benefits was not possible, we would not care about citizenship that much.

[Argus]

will fly to Canada on tourist visas when they're ready to give birth. This makes their kids "Canadians". They then fly home with their "Canadian" kids, who, when they reach adulthood, can return and sponsor their relatives. They also get the full benefits of citizenship, including health care, if it's worked right.

If collecting benefits was not possible, we would not care about citizenship that much.

Being allowed to live here IS a benefit.

[BHS]

If collecting benefits was not possible, we would not care about citizenship that much.

Well, there's a bolt of lightning. This is pretty much a rejoinder to the rest of your own post. The entire point of this thread is that there are 50000 or so folks living in Lebanon who feel it's our duty to come and rescue them, based on the "benefit" of their "Canadian" citizenship.

[Charles Anthony]

The entire point of this thread is that there are 50000 or so folks living in Lebanon who feel it's our duty to come and rescue them, based on the "benefit" of their "Canadian" citizenship.

I do not think any Canadian has a duty to rescue them.

I feel sympathy and I would like to help them personally if I could. However, I do not feel obligated.

[Guest Warwick Green]

The entire point of this thread is that there are 50000 or so folks living in Lebanon who feel it's our duty to come and rescue them, based on the "benefit" of their "Canadian" citizenship.

I do not think any Canadian has a duty to rescue them.

I feel sympathy and I would like to help them personally if I could. However, I do not feel obligated.

Are Canucks being charged? I read that the US was charging 2K a head for rescue.