Killing Arafat

[Craig Read]

For the uninitiated a brief history of the world's ugliest man [ok maybe Steve Tyler is uglier]:

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If you look at the Nobel Prizes' own biography of Yasser Arafat, you find this remarkable sentence toward the end: "Like other Arab regimes in the area, however, Arafat's governing style tended to be more dictatorial than democratic." That is to say, Arafat by his own choice of governance -- dictatorship over democracy -- bears individual responsibility for the legacy he leaves.

That legacy includes: the contemporary crime of hijacking and blowing up civilian-filled airliners; the attempted destabilization of Jordan and Israel and the successful destruction of Lebanon as a formerly sovereign nation; and decades of violated international agreements, culminating in the collapse of Oslo. Last year, in a perfect storm of bad faith, Arafat was caught paying for the shipment of arms from Iran to the Palestinian territories aboard the Karine A.

Across these years, the West, mainly the European nations, accomplished the post-WWII feat of pretending that crime is not crime, so long as the motives and politics for the crimes are moralized. The U.S. and Israel participated as well in the pretense, bringing Arafat out of exile in Tunis. The world has learned since that this apologetics (and much direct funding) has made possible any crime, culminating in the anti-moral act known as suicide bombers. Arafat most recently threw over Mahmoud Abbas, and the fatigued West barely sighed in complaint.

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Great summary of a dictator, demagogue and destroyer of lives.

May he rot in hell and may the EU ninnies shut up.

[FastNed]

Hello Sov - kela, welcome to the Forum.

First, lets put a fact upon the table - 66% of the Palestinian people support terrorist acts against Israel. Look it up, you'll learn something in the process.

For ten years, the Palestinians have had all the benefits of the Osla Accords yet have failled and refused to end terrorism against Israel. They believe they are winning the PR War in the West; their Leaders such as Arafat speak to them in Arabic and promise to drive every Jew from "Palestine". It is time to end OSLO!

And Yes, Nova - I've been there and done that, I have spoken and debated with a number of Palestinians and while I agree with their statement that everyone deserves a home, I was unable to obtain any significant response to my statement that if you attempt to establish one with violence, you had best be the most violent kid on the block. It is then that the Palestinial delusion is expressed: Their Arab brothers will come to their aid; their friends in Europe and the UN will not let this happen; and, most pathetically, "World Opinion" will stop the Jews!

Remembering that these are the self-same Jews who have been persecuted for thousands of years based upon "World Opinion" - yup, these Israeli's are going to be real impressed by World Opinion!

We are suposed to be concerned about Palestinian anger over Arafat being "Offed"? Forget it - the Palestinians are pawns and will continue to be such. So long as they embrace violence, they will harvest what they sow.

[Craig Read]

Time to win the war and end the unending virtual reality on display.

Kill Arafat and his entire inner circle. Crush Hamas and Holy Jihad and give the Palestinians a choice - more of this or you start to organise for peace.

[Nuclear]

Hey Nova, I never really watched Israel before....on 9-11 I see this big fat palestinian dancing in the streets. Since that day, I have had no sympathy for palestine. And I never will. Israel, although it may have it's troubles, will survive. They have survived there for millenia and will continue to do so until the end of time.

[Black Dog]

Hey Nova, I never really watched Israel before....on 9-11 I see this big fat palestinian dancing in the streets. Since that day, I have had no sympathy for palestine. And I never will.

If that's all you base your opinion on, you are an idiot. Do you have the slightest concept of what the Palestinan people have gone through or of the day to day struggle for survival that is life in the Occupied Territories? Maybe you should do some reading or some actual thinking before basing opinions on an entire people on the actions of one man on the Tee Vee.

Moron.

Israel, although it may have it's troubles, will survive. They have survived there for millenia and will continue to do so until the end of time.

By "millenia", I assume you mean "since 1948".

[Mr Farrius]

If taking Arafat out is an option let the Israelis handle it...I’m not sure we could find him.

Hah, let the U.S. find Osama first. After all, Bush continuously emphasized the War on Terror after 9-11 right? Or did he revoke that also?

The U.S. has no business in assasinating leaders. It failed once already and made it the laughingstock of the world.

[Nuclear]

Black Dog: First off, I watch palestine break peace treaty after peace treaty. Some religion of peace. They are terrorists. Sadly, both palestinians that ARE peaceful get thrown in the crowd of terrorists. Israel was there. It was called Israel after 1948, but the people have been there. The first four books of the Bible discuss how the Israelis arrived. (I'm not trying to force religion here, a lot of those books is purely historical records)

[Mr Farrius]

Black Dog: First off, I watch palestine break peace treaty after peace treaty. Some religion of peace. They are terrorists.

Exactly. That is why killing Arafat would just cause another 9-11. America has enough middle eastern enemies and if it was wise, it wouldn't make anymore. Would any Palestinian, terrorist or civilian feel secure if the U.S. didn't like their leader so it assasinated him? Get real. If America doesn't realize that, it's hopeless.

[Nuclear]

So if the Israelis kill Arafat, two planes are going to crash into the WTC and one into the Pentagon and one into a field in Pennsylvania......

Your logic escapes me.

[Craig Read]

Nova and his clownish brethren have no logic, no facts, no historical guidance.

They are Lie-berals - they apologise for everything.

Can't wait to hear their defense of the holocaust.

Plus Tiny Bin Laden is dead. Read some other threads on that.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Nuclear,

While I admit that biblical text is somewhat 'the only source of history from certain periods', I cannot accept the fact that 'god promised' land as a legal argument. Yet it is the basis of Israeli occupation of those lands. Indeed, they still refer to Gaza and the West Bank as 'Judea and Samaria' on their news sites.

You are right, though, that some innocent Palestinians are being painted with the same brush as the terrorists.

So if the Israelis kill Arafat, two planes are going to crash into the WTC and one into the Pentagon and one into a field in Pennsylvania......

Your logic escapes me.

Yours escapes me at this time. I think what was meant was: A similar attack may occur in retribution for the killing of Arafat rather than 'the same towers will be struck again', since they no longer exist.

I guess my problem is that no one is admitting the real issues behind everyone's actions. Terrorism is defined as: "One party attacks a second party with the intention of coercing that second party to incite a third party to make concessions or capitulate"

Ergo, an attack on the USA is an act of aggression, not terrorism, since no demands were made. I think we all know that Islamic radicals wish to see Israel cease to exist. (Mr. Read, your root cause) If the 'terrorists' wish to coerce the US to cease supporting Israel, they need to explicitly state that. That should have been, in keeping with the definition or terrorism,a prerequisite for the attacks, or they would have had no formal goal. I believe this to be the case. They are are for of 'extreme gurilla warfare' against the US, and not Israel, unless such a qualification is issued. Many indicators are there to point at 'terrorism with the end goal of eliminating Israel', but I doubt it has been made clear to the American people that this was the goal.

Instead, the US gov't fostered the notion that the 'terrorists' hate 'freedom and democracy'(for democracy, it may be true, the Islamic militants believe in religious law and rule) with the goal of winning public support for their own agenda.

[KrustyKidd]

Exactly. That is why killing Arafat would just cause another 9-11. America has enough middle eastern enemies and if it was wise, it wouldn't make anymore. Would any Palestinian, terrorist or civilian feel secure if the U.S. didn't like their leader so it assasinated him? Get real. If America doesn't realize that, it's hopeless.

Better cave in then. Wouldn't want to make these guys that want to kills us any madder, they might try and .........kill us? Better to let them all just do what they want whatever that might be, kill us perhaps?

[nova_satori]

Hey Nova, I never really watched Israel before....on 9-11 I see this big fat palestinian dancing in the streets. Since that day, I have had no sympathy for palestine. And I never will. Israel, although it may have it's troubles, will survive. They have survived there for millenia and will continue to do so until the end of time.

And it is clear you haven't watched or researched since.

Not all Palestines support terror. Many do because there is no other choice.

You have no sympathy for those who have had their land stolen from them? People who have seen their rights (different context this time) and freedoms litterally destroyed by the Isrealis? You have no symapthy for people who have the same desires as you? A better life, the return of property and freedom? The end to a oppressive military rule?

You live a sad life.

If the palestines simply stopped attacking Isreal for two months, they would see Isreal destroy itself. What militant organizations could not do, Isreal has done to itself in a fraction of the time. The only thing keeping Isreal together is a threat of Hamas and other militant groups.

Black Dog: Do not degrade yourself to the level of ignorance, arrogance and utter stupidity of right by calling them names.

First, lets put a fact upon the table - 66% of the Palestinian people support terrorist acts against Israel. Look it up, you'll learn something in the process.

Actually a new poll says 64%. However, let's examine this source. "Jerusalem Media and Communications Center."

JMCC was established in 1988 by a group of Palestinian journalists and researchers to provide information on events in the West Ba

HMMMMM....drumming up a bit of propaganda?

Find me a North European or New Zealand report, Luxemborg will do as well. Those people are the few I still trust.

So long as they embrace violence, they will harvest what they sow.

As long as the IDF embraces violence, they will be met with violence.

Kill Arafat and his entire inner circle. Crush Hamas and Holy Jihad and give the Palestinians a choice - more of this or you start to organise for peace.

So when the Middle East becomes a nightmare from Hell after they knock off Arafat, I get to laugh and point fingers at you Craig?

Kill Arafat and his entire inner circle. Crush Hamas and Holy Jihad and give the Palestinians a choice - more of this or you start to organise for peace.

Because if they took the time to write it, it MUST be true!

Craig, the world will fall due to people like you. Hatred doesn't solve anything.

Better cave in then. Wouldn't want to make these guys that want to kills us any madder, they might try and .........kill us? Better to let them all just do what they want whatever that might be, kill us perhaps?

Well, which woul you rather have, a thousand people comming to kill you, or a million?

However, every right-winger. Have you even spoken to a Middle Eastern person on their views of "terrorism?"

It seems none of you even have a clue how they see it.

[Nuclear]

There is no way we can resolve the terrorism issue peacefully. Whether it be palestine, Iraq, saudi arabia, iran, north korea, or al queada. They would see any withdrawl of forces as a sign of weakness and a small victory and use to to attack again.

In their religious extremism, they believe the sollution to Israel and America is not for us to exist peacefully and their people to exist peacefully, it's for them to exist peacefully and us to NOT EXIST. They would see us all dead because we are Americans. Or because we are Christians. It's racism at it's worst.

We can't back down. There is no peaceful way about it. It's us or them. Yeah, military makes a few 'peaceful' muslims more proned to violence and extremism but to withdraw would guarentee our way of civillized existence to lead to extinction.

We must defend ourselves.

Imagine had Roosevelt stood in front of Congress on Dec 8, 1941 and said we need to pursue this peacefully.

We'd be speaking Japanese/German and have swastickers tattooed on our foreheads.....

[nova_satori]

Yeah, military makes a few 'peaceful' muslims more proned to violence and extremism but to withdraw would guarentee our way of civillized existence to lead to extinction.

You mean thousands, and possibly millions.

There is no way we can resolve the terrorism issue peacefully. Whether it be palestine, Iraq, saudi arabia, iran, north korea, or al queada

There is much choice you have. Massive open warfare and ultimate destruction of the world. Or find an alterantive, but the right wing doesn't understand what alternative means.

We must defend ourselves.

By creating thousands of new terrorists. Makes lots of sense doesn't it?

Imagine had Roosevelt stood in front of Congress on Dec 8, 1941 and said we need to pursue this peacefully.

Do you understand WHY he said that? Dense American.....the world is doomed if the average american is leading it.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Nuclear,

they believe the sollution to Israel and America is not for us to exist peacefully and their people to exist peacefully, it's for them to exist peacefully and us to NOT EXIST.

I believe this is a core issue, not being limited to the 'fundamentalists'. It is the opinion of most of the world that the US does not 'exist peacefully'. They do, and it can and has been proven, that they fund and support brutal dictatorships when it is in their economic and strategic interests to do so, and only act against dictatorships when the do not, or cease to, serve US interests.

Most of the world does not condone nor support terrorism as a legitimate means of conflict, bor do they support the US and it's actions. There are 2 pariahs at large in the world. Supporting the US is 'the lesser of two evils', not 'right versus wrong'.

[Mr Farrius]

We must defend ourselves.

Oh, so defense has become assasination huh? It's because of this kind of stupidity that the U.S. charged off to Iraq and is wriggling to get out. Because Saddam and his non-existing WMDs were a "threat".

[KrustyKidd]

Oh, so defense has become assasination huh? It's because of this kind of stupidity that the U.S. charged off to Iraq and is wriggling to get out. Because Saddam and his non-existing WMDs were a "threat".

It's Israel, not the US that wants him whacked. Not assasination either, he is and has always been, a terrorist. Whether he actively takes part or not he, by action or inaction allows it. Israel is justified in taking him out. It may be politically incorrect and cause problems but moraly he is a justifiable military target.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear KK,

Leaders of nations are only 'legitmate targets' if one is at war. While Arafat may be asking for a 'case of lead poisoning' it would not be legitimate to do so. The entire world, if it wishes to end the current strife in the middle east, needs to confront 1:Islam 2: the USA and 3:Y'Israel.

I do not mean confront with a gun in one's hand, either, but if that is what it takes after debate, so be it.

If you'll remember, Saddam Hussein offered to debate Pres. Bush publicly, more than once, and was refused. I used to read Saddam's statements on the INA website (before it was destroyed by the US) and he was actually a polite person. He gave a very amicable interview to Dan Rather and did not try to kill and eat him, contrary to western fears.

If Bush had debated Hussein first, before attacking, it muight have given Bush a bit of legitimacy. I think Bush feared losing that debate. He could have

1:Made Saddam look like a fool and a tyrant.

2:Ended up looking like a fool and a tyrant himself.

Bush chose to attack with all conventional weapons at his disposal rather than debate. Which made #2 look like the most plausible scenario.

[nova_satori]

It's Israel, not the US that wants him whacked. Not assasination either, he is and has always been, a terrorist. Whether he actively takes part or not he, by action or inaction allows it. Israel is justified in taking him out. It may be politically incorrect and cause problems but moraly he is a justifiable military target

Yes he is a obstacle to peace. Yes, he has caused problems. Yes he should be stopped. Yes he should be removed.

However, the sheer consequences of making him a martyr outweigh the good it would do.

60% of the palestinan population supporting him, to 80% wanting revenge?

[KrustyKidd]

Dear KK,

Leaders of nations are only 'legitmate targets' if one is at war. While Arafat may be asking for a 'case of lead poisoning' it would not be legitimate to do so. The entire world, if it wishes to end the current strife in the middle east, needs to confront 1:Islam 2: the USA and 3:Y'Israel.

I do not mean confront with a gun in one's hand, either, but if that is what it takes after debate, so be it.

If you'll remember, Saddam Hussein offered to debate Pres. Bush publicly, more than once, and was refused.  I used to read Saddam's statements on the INA website (before it was destroyed by the US) and he was actually a polite person. He gave a very amicable interview to Dan Rather and did not try to kill and eat him, contrary to western fears.

If Bush had debated Hussein first, before attacking, it muight have given Bush a bit of legitimacy. I think Bush feared losing that debate. He could have

1:Made Saddam look like a fool and a tyrant.

2:Ended up looking like a fool and a tyrant himself.

Bush chose to attack with all conventional weapons at his disposal rather than debate. Which made #2 look like the most plausible scenario.

President Arafat? King Arafat? Not Prime Minister so what is he? Ah, Head of Terrorism scince the seventies, Chairman of the Joint Belt Bombers Association, Lead Thug. There was a Palistinian Leader but he got rid of him by working against him. Assasination is an overstatement for sure.

Saddam with Dan Rather;

Dan: So some would say that you are an oppressor of the people and that your methods of ruling are somewhat excessive ie torture, murder, starvation, televised rape to family members to ensure complience. What do you say to that?

Saddam: It is not true. (wipes eyes with handkerchief) For anybody to say that is hurtful to me. Excuse me while I display my femminine side. Begins to sob ucontrollably.

Saddam's Debate with Dubya:

Bush: You have flaunted 14 UN resolutions Mr Hussein.

Saddam: Define resolution.

Bush: (Searches through Webster) It is an agreement for action an this agreement was made by the UN.

Saddam: Define United

Bush: (searches through Webster) Joining, BTW, I am a uniter, not a divider.

Saddam: Define Nation.

Four hours later

Saddam: Define terrorism.

Bush: (Muttering to self while shaking head) Damm this guy is good.

.

[nova_satori]

terrorism is essentially a modern term to define anyone you don't like. lol.

Ask a middle easterner on how the west sees arabs and muslims fighting for their freedom and property. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM will say that they are automatically labled terrorists.

[KrustyKidd]

When,where and with whom did you last have this conversation with? Me, it was 1990 in a Palistinian owned Barber Shop in Damascus. The guy thought all Israelis should die or vanish and didn't care how it happened. He also figured that in order to have peace, all heads of state in the Arab World should be overthrown and replaced by a Palistinian.

Gave a darn good haircut and I tipped well.

[FastNed]

First, Arafat is not the leader of a nation. The Palestinian Authority and the Palestinian Territories were created under the Oslo Accord. The quid pro quo was that there would be elections and that terrorism would be renounced. On this basis, Israel allowed the creation of this pseudo Palestine.

Arafat allowed one election, can anyone advise when the next one (rather overdue) is scheduled? And could anyone who has bothered to read transcripts of Arafat's speeches in Arabic tell me with a straight face that he has renounced terrorism?

For fifty years, the Palestinians have been the brainwashed pawns and victims of Arab Leaders and Arafat and his ilk - Arafat has become a billionaire playing his games and he will never give them up while he lives.

Denounce Oslo, clear out the Palestinian Territories, expel or kill Arafat and his Tunesian thugs and give the Palestinian people a clear choice - live in peace if you wish to live!

There comes a point where additional debate is pointless, we are past that point. It ended on 9.11 - like it or lump it.

[Craig Read]

Yes and importantly not only must the world's ugliest little imp be killed, but his entire gang must be killed or exiled and imprisoned. Then Hamas, Holy Jihad and the other freaks must be pounded and destroyed.

In other words, the war in Palestine must first be won, before we discuss Peace.

Another Clinton legacy - peace without fighting and resolving the obvious disconnect between Arafat's corrupt regime and their abhorrence of Israel's right to exist.

That a boy Billy, you truly are a genius, just like CNN kept telling me for so long.