Caledonia problem didnt arise overnight

[yam]

Don't blame me it's from your Criminal Code. The agenda you wish and seek to impose on us consistent with deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.

For those of you that may misinterpret the deffinition due to Who's Doing What?s comprehension disability it refers to destroying the way of life NOT life itself! If you read (2) (a) it refers to killing or taking of life!

It may be "my" Criminal code but you are completely misinterpreting it.

You are making a mockery of all the true victims of genocide, and I seriously hope it comes home to haunt you.

The genocide section of your Criminal Code comes from directly from the International Convention on the

Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide Article II which states:

Article 2

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

( Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article 2 ( © and (e) does not mean you have to cause death! And clearly defines what constitutes genocide. Canada became a signatory on November, 28, 1949. You might also want to pay close attention to Article 3 as well!

Article 3

The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;

( Conspiracy to commit genocide;

© Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide.

I know, I know...here it is! http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

Go Talk to a Tutsi or a Hutu, about Genocide.

You are cheapening the tragedy of their deaths, with your lame comparison.

NOPE.

(im non-native by the way)

Naturally, academics have made distinctions between the forms of genocide - obviously academics from Rwanda.

In your cushioned opinion, you can call a particular form of genocide "cheap". But what we are speaking of is genocide and intentions, excuses for doing it - not weighing up the methods of genocide . . .

Rather, the people of rwanda would be the first to identify the subtleties of North American first world genocidal practices. A form of genocide which has been practiced all over the world. Rwanda used the "cheap" quick fix mechanism - of genocide and were well aware of the difference needless to say.

So free health care, tax free land and commmodities, education, assistance programs, and freedoms other Canadians are not afforded, is Genocide???????

Yam you are off your rocker.

It is the 'kind' form of genocide. Assimilation. These come at a cultural/legal price. They would have to give up their tribal rights. They have to become Canadian which means they have to give up their status and specialised laws in the treaty. Many do (so iv heard) and`do become tax payers. But again at a HUGE price.

It is a cultural genocide because you have to 'become' canadian to recieve these packages. Its either become a citizen of be starved out parallel. . . .to put it crudely. . . .or truthfully!!

Besides, these assistance programs are a cop out. A cheaper way for the canadian gov to be 'seen' as an attempt at repairment. But in reality and motive, it is to avoid paying the huge ammounts that is owed to them from land appropriation.

IMPORTANTLY, If they were paid what was owed ( to f/n) each nation would BUY there education and not have the Canadian tax payers pay . . . albeit only then initially since they would get it back through taxation in the longer term.

We dont get to hear this side of the coin. Further, so all the government loans etc are not given but will be paid back through taxation -so its not even a small compensation. . . even if we only speak in figures.

For a start many cant even get into university by passing entrance exams - due to shoddy education. So grants etc become redundent here and are left idly sitting - useless.

Now if i were you, you should take it up with your government that you voted in to demand satisfaction of the deal in social spending concerning your citizenry. Its not f/ns fault that it chooses to lie and fiddle you out of what is owed you. Perhaps you could learn from the f/n standpoint of holding your government to a deal - No!!!

So we can now understand why many f/ns do not want to be assimilated into a nation of merchants. With a wholly different and dishonourable way of existance - despite the temptation to put food on the table.

Dont think that Canada has f/ns at heart. it wants to remould them into bland canadians that do not have a culture or absolutely nothing to give up. For the government you are an earner which uts money into their elitist pockets. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Who's Doing What?]

Don't blame me it's from your Criminal Code. The agenda you wish and seek to impose on us consistent with deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.

For those of you that may misinterpret the deffinition due to Who's Doing What?s comprehension disability it refers to destroying the way of life NOT life itself! If you read (2) (a) it refers to killing or taking of life!

It may be "my" Criminal code but you are completely misinterpreting it.

You are making a mockery of all the true victims of genocide, and I seriously hope it comes home to haunt you.

The genocide section of your Criminal Code comes from directly from the International Convention on the

Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide Article II which states:

Article 2

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

( Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article 2 ( © and (e) does not mean you have to cause death! And clearly defines what constitutes genocide. Canada became a signatory on November, 28, 1949. You might also want to pay close attention to Article 3 as well!

Article 3

The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;

( Conspiracy to commit genocide;

© Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide.

I know, I know...here it is! http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

Go Talk to a Tutsi or a Hutu, about Genocide.

You are cheapening the tragedy of their deaths, with your lame comparison.

NOPE.

(im non-native by the way)

Naturally, academics have made distinctions between the forms of genocide - obviously academics from Rwanda.

In your cushioned opinion, you can call a particular form of genocide "cheap". But what we are speaking of is genocide and intentions, excuses for doing it - not weighing up the methods of genocide . . .

Rather, the people of rwanda would be the first to identify the subtleties of North American first world genocidal practices. A form of genocide which has been practiced all over the world. Rwanda used the "cheap" quick fix mechanism - of genocide and were well aware of the difference needless to say.

So free health care, tax free land and commmodities, education, assistance programs, and freedoms other Canadians are not afforded, is Genocide???????

Yam you are off your rocker.

It is the 'kind' form of genocide. Assimilation. These come at a cultural/legal price. They would have to give up their tribal rights. They have to become Canadian which means they have to give up their status and specialised laws in the treaty. Many do (so iv heard) and`do become tax payers. But again at a HUGE price.

It is a cultural genocide because you have to 'become' canadian to recieve these packages. Its either become a citizen of be starved out parallel. . . .to put it crudely. . . .or truthfully!!

Besides, these assistance programs are a cop out. A cheaper way for the canadian gov to be 'seen' as an attempt at repairment. But in reality and motive, it is to avoid paying the huge ammounts that is owed to them from land appropriation.

IMPORTANTLY, If they were paid what was owed ( to f/n) each nation would BUY there education and not have the Canadian tax payers pay . . . albeit only then initially since they would get it back through taxation in the longer term.

We dont get to hear this side of the coin. Further, so all the government loans etc are not given but will be paid back through taxation -so its not even a small compensation. . . even if we only speak in figures.

For a start many cant even get into university by passing entrance exams - due to shoddy education. So grants etc become redundent here and are left idly sitting - useless.

Now if i were you, you should take it up with your government that you voted in to demand satisfaction of the deal in social spending concerning your citizenry. Its not f/ns fault that it chooses to lie and fiddle you out of what is owed you. Perhaps you could learn from the f/n standpoint of holding your government to a deal - No!!!

So we can now understand why many f/ns do not want to be assimilated into a nation of merchants. With a wholly different and dishonourable way of existance - despite the temptation to put food on the table.

Dont think that Canada has f/ns at heart. it wants to remould them into bland canadians that do not have a culture or absolutely nothing to give up. For the government you are an earner which uts money into their elitist pockets. Nothing more, nothing less.

Natives have their own land already, that they live on tax free, and can do with whatever they want.

Native cultural events are promoted and enjoyed all over the country.

Assimilation???

Genocide??????

Natives will be laughed out of any court in the world.

[NativeCharm]

The previous post is WEAK and is a statement from an uneducated and narrow minded point of view. It should be disregarded from this thread.

[Who's Doing What?]

The previous post is WEAK and is a statement from an uneducated and narrow minded point of view. It should be disregarded from this thread.

Why because it is true?

Native culture has been nothing but promoted and celebrated in recent years. The Opening of the Salt Lake winter Olympics was all about celebrating and promoting native culture. I suppose you are familiar with the powwow trail in Ontario?

There is a pow wow every year within ten minutes of where I live. It is promoted not protested against.

You want to cry Genocide and assimilation, when the opposite is what is really true. The natives have been given both money and opportunity to ensure the survival of their way of life.

Yet you cry Genocide and assimilation.

My next conversation with a tribal elder is going to be very interesting. He is a pipe carrier. I see him every few months, and have always shown the respect and courtesy to bring him tobacco. His children don't. His grandchildren don't either. But I bring him tobacco. To respect his culture.

How is that Genocide or assimilation?

Sorry Charm girl you have your **** backwards.

[NativeCharm]

wow! you know a Native so, this makes you an expert huh? jeesh you just keep getting better and better. What's next...someone in your gene history part cherokee princess too?

The genocide plan was unsuccessful ( newsflash: WE SURVIVED)...and VERY, VERY real. DO NOT EVEN DARE sit there and make weak ass attempt at preaching the health and vitality of our people or even attempt to downplay the tragedies the gov't has laid upon the Native people. Obviously you have ZERO comprehension of our history, the facts or the currents stats of our young people or the older generations.

What gives you the right to preach our cultures vibrancy and in the same breathe denounce the FACTS of what has happened ever since euro-contact? Are you gonna make a futile attempt to rewrite history like some of the other writers in this forum too? Believe me, we all want to pretend the nasty uglies never happened, but they DID.

Respect? You go ask you elder why many of our men can barely stand on one leg, ask why the womens hearts are on the ground, and the children are killing themselves and then ask him why many of our leaders are in the condition they are in. If your "elders" children are not bringing him respect, perhaps you should question that.

AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO UTTER THE WORD RESPECT...stunned but not surprised.

[Big Blue Machine]

Amazing how fast this turned into an insult contest.

[NativeCharm]

Amazing how fast this turned into an insult contest.

I'm amazed you're amazed.

[skyclad]

Actually, technology is the enemy of the Six Nations, in a 100 years the Six nations will become non relevant. At the 1784 grant each native had more wealth then each settler, who had nothing but the shirts on their back. But by embracing technology they moved ahead. In 100 years, the natives will still be left far behind.

The British wanted to leave India in 1910, but WW1 arose, then in the twenties, the uprise of Muslims in India occurred, then WW2,, Gandhi in the 50's gave the Brits an opportunity to leave.

Gandhi , himself was related to one of large ruling families controlling India, pre Dutch and later British colonisation.

Gandhi goal was to restore his family to that position, today India has been controlled by the Gandhi/Nehru coalition.

[Okwaho]

Actually, technology is the enemy of the Six Nations, in a 100 years the Six nations will become non relevant. At the 1784 grant each native had more wealth then each settler, who had nothing but the shirts on their back. But by embracing technology they moved ahead. In 100 years, the natives will still be left far behind.

I don't think so! You really need to some research. We had the same as the loyalists that came here with us! Everything we had was burned to the ground by Maj. Gen. Sullivan during his "search and destroy" mission into Six Nations country! We are talking 1784 correct?

[yam]

Unrelated really -

or is it?

But i tell you what technology is not going to wipe out six nations or other f/ns if they play there cards right - just kidding.

Iv beenreading about energy depletion here 'The party's Over' by Heinberg (2005 [for another post] ) and it looks like f/ns could have a lot of say about what is going to happen in the future since they are home to a lot of natural resources.

That is of course if we take note of all the legal issues, rights of ownership etc.

better start being nice to them hey

serious though, what are your thoughts here folks? It does tye into many of the legal`aspects about f/ns here one way or another.

[NativeCharm]

I think it's only a natural path to appoint Natives as governers of the lands, whether they own it or not. They have always been and have ancient respects and knowledge of Mother Earth. We would see less raping, pillaging, polluting and destroying of our resources, forestry, waters and air.

Natives as caregivers of the land would ensure a guarantee on the future for all our children and their grandchildren as they would stand as the voice of reason and not the greedy minded cancerous corporations that are mass murdering the main essential ingredient to health and vitality.

I believe in economical strength but seriously, if we don't care for our lands and PLANET NOW, there will be NO FUTURE. Anyone that even attepts to argue this simple fact is a complete moron and is not only wasting cyber space but should be completly dismissed off the planet as they are just wasting more of the semi-toxic air that we breathe.

[jdobbin]

I think it's only a natural path to appoint Natives as governers of the lands, whether they own it or not. They have always been and have ancient respects and knowledge of Mother Earth. We would see less raping, pillaging, polluting and destroying of our resources, forestry, waters and air.

Natives as caregivers of the land would ensure a guarantee on the future for all our children and their grandchildren as they would stand as the voice of reason and not the greedy minded cancerous corporations that are mass murdering the main essential ingredient to health and vitality.

I believe in economical strength but seriously, if we don't care for our lands and PLANET NOW, there will be NO FUTURE. Anyone that even attepts to argue this simple fact is a complete moron and is not only wasting cyber space but should be completly dismissed off the planet as they are just wasting more of the semi-toxic air that we breathe.

http://ncseonline.org/nae/docs/rethinking.html

Why are native Canadians any different from other human beings when it comes to the land and its stewardship? Wouldn't abolute power corrupt absolutely? And when does someone become Native? Are they born with it? Can they lose it through inter-marriage, by moving to the city, by speaking English or French instead of their historical language?

You have natives to the north fighting to get a pipeline through, natives to the west looking to cut down old growth forest, natives to the east who want a commercial fishery despite a moratorium to replenish fish stocks, natives to the west who kill eagles for ceremonial usage and hide the remains and so on and so on.

There was once a dream to make everyone egalitarian, to send them back to the land and to be one with nature. That dream was in Cambodia and millions of people died in the killing fields.

I think it is best to try to avoid mythologizing certain aspects of the past and remember that humans are humans and while they might be capable of great things, they are also capable of terrible things.

[Riverwind]

Natives as caregivers of the land would ensure a guarantee on the future for all our children and their grandchildren as they would stand as the voice of reason and not the greedy minded cancerous corporations that are mass murdering the main essential ingredient to health and vitality.

What is the difference between the stereotype you posted above and a stereotype that says all Natives are lazy drunks? Both stereotypes are wrong and encourage people to view others based on their race and not their worth as indiviuduals.

Let me put it simply: any statement that goes something like "natives are ..." or "white people are.." is a racist statement even if that statement is intended to be positive. If you want to live in a society without racism you have to learn to stop using racism whenever it is convenient for you.

And yes, I am picking on you everytime you make a racist statement on this forum because I am tired of racists like you running around and pretending that you are not racist. I don't really care if you are willing to listen to me or not because I know that others will read your insulting replies and will recogonize that I have a point - even if you insist on living in denial.

[Rue]

Natives as caregivers of the land would ensure a guarantee on the future for all our children and their grandchildren as they would stand as the voice of reason and not the greedy minded cancerous corporations that are mass murdering the main essential ingredient to health and vitality.

What is the difference between the stereotype you posted above and a stereotype that says all Natives are lazy drunks? Both stereotypes are wrong and encourage people to view others based on their race and not their worth as indiviuduals.

Let me put it simply: any statement that goes something like "natives are ..." or "white people are.." is a racist statement even if that statement is intended to be positive. If you want to live in a society without racism you have to learn to stop using racism whenever it is convenient for you.

And yes, I am picking on you everytime you make a racist statement on this forum because I am tired of racists like you running around and pretending that you are not racist. I don't really care if you are willing to listen to me or not because I know that others will read your insulting replies and will recogonize that I have a point - even if you insist on living in denial.

Your comments are logical.

For me I see this as an ancient problem that was allowed to fester and the current stalemate is simply a symptom or flair up of an ailment that is deeply entrenched and won't go away.

Here is my problem. I truly believe the current federal and provincial governments did not negotiate in good faith in the bast with the 6 N people. I say that simply in a very sterile, unemotional legal sense looking at how treaties were broken and/or how promises and undertakings were pledged but then never followed through.

I also know personally of one provincial civil servant who prided himself on how during negotiations he could mislead natives using double talk civil service language.

That said, I think the current stalemate can not end until everyone sits down at a table. Negotiations can't be done as long as there is an occupation and people breaking the law, no matter how well intentioned these law breakers may be.

I personally believe the provincial government based on its guilt for past bad negotiations or the ignorant behaviour of some bafoon like Mike Harris, is now paralyzed with fear and has not shown leadership for fear it will be seen as just another Mike Harris regime. This current government is paralyzed by its fear of optics and that is wrong.

Had this current government said, look there are serious issues, we can and will sit and discuss them but take down the barriers, I think you would have had a different response.

Part of what is prolonging this is because natives have no confidence. in any one at this pt. They feel they literally have nothing to lose and quite frankly the way this government is behaving how does it inspire leadership simply hiding? I mean is it any wonder that gutless OPP Police Chief ran off?

Does anyone have the balls to say to the native peoples look we will talk just step down.

[NativeCharm]

My whole point (which you always ignore) with my previous statement is that Natives have a NATURAL and indigenous connection to the land. An indigenous connection with traditional knowledge that others do not have.

Whether you like this or refuse to accept this (which I know you will) I dont think anyone cares. It is obvious how you dislike EVERY comment I make and you sit there 24/7 waiting for the opportunity to call me a racist.

Accept that Native people do HAVE somethings that others do not. Some are negative and some are very positive. Keep living in your dreamworld of equality which will never happen as it doesn't exist.

Sticks and stones... blah blah blah.

[Riverwind]

My whole point (which you always ignore) with my previous statement is that Natives have a NATURAL and indigenous connection to the land. An indigenous connection with traditional knowledge that others do not have.

Why is last statement any less racist than saying that Asian people are NATURALLY more intelligent that others? It is a generalization that is not only wrong in many cases it also encourages people to judge natives by the numerous negative sterotypes as well. If you want an end to racism in society then you should not encourage it with statements like that.

Accept that Native people do HAVE somethings that others do not. Some are negative and some are very positive. Keep living in your dreamworld of equality which will never happen as it doesn't exist.

I believe it is wrong (morally and factually) to say that "<insert race here> HAVE <insert personality attribute here> and other races do not". People are individuals and should be treated as individuals.

[NativeCharm]

lol, you're cute when you that lil' dance Riverspin.

n·dig·e·nous Audio pronunciation of "indigenous" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-dj-ns)

adj.

1. Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. See Synonyms at native.

2. Intrinsic; innate.

So now you want to deny the Native's INDIGENOUS connection to the land. Funny.

Must be hard living with that constant dizziness!

Yours Truly,

Your local forum's Extreme Racist

[Chuck U. Farlie]

So now you want to deny the Native's INDIGENOUS connection to the land.

I do. From my understanding "Natives" actually came mostly from Asia via the land bridge with some possible mix of European immigrants long before Columbus (although the latter theory is debateable - just saw it on discovery a couple weeks ago).

So presuming the archeologists are correct, "Natives" are no more "Originating and living or occurring naturally" in this area than us 'other' Canadians, where-ever our blood may be from. The only difference is that your blood line has been here about 10000 years, mine has been here 60.

[B. Max]

I think it's only a natural path to appoint Natives as governers of the lands, whether they own it or not. They have always been and have ancient respects and knowledge of Mother Earth. We would see less raping, pillaging, polluting and destroying of our resources, forestry, waters and air.

Natives as caregivers of the land would ensure a guarantee on the future for all our children and their grandchildren as they would stand as the voice of reason and not the greedy minded cancerous corporations that are mass murdering the main essential ingredient to health and vitality.

I believe in economical strength but seriously, if we don't care for our lands and PLANET NOW, there will be NO FUTURE. Anyone that even attepts to argue this simple fact is a complete moron and is not only wasting cyber space but should be completly dismissed off the planet as they are just wasting more of the semi-toxic air that we breathe.

Sounds like master race talk to me, combined with environmental nonsense. Such blatant arrogance arising out of the politics of envy.

Speaking of ancient knowledge : we can without any doubt what so ever, put the white man in north America with large copper mining operations, no later than 4300 years ago, something we can not do with the Indians. Any such claim of Indians being here at even that time and most especially regarding the Caledonia area is at best hear say, and with out any proof and twice removed from reality. Since such claims form the basis of treaties and Indian land claims they should all be declared null and void.

[NativeCharm]

Ahhhh, the ol' Berrin Strait theory. Bunk. Archaeological evidence proves Native presence thousands years prior to that THEORY.

10,000+ years of expertise on the land beneath your feet.

Are you always so presumptuous with theories? I' m sure your native but without the "t'.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Ahhhh, the ol' Berrin Strait theory. Bunk. Archaeological evidence proves Native presence thousands years prior to that THEORY.

10,000+ years of expertise on the land beneath your feet.

Are you always so presumptuous with theories? I' m sure your native but without the "t'.

Ahhh.... so now you are discounting the work of 1000's of scientists on a working theory based on what?

Show me ANY scientific link that says that "Natives" orginated in North America.

You can't. It doesn't exist. The human race evolved in Africa and emmigrated outwards.

[B. Max]

Ahhhh, the ol' Berrin Strait theory. Bunk. Archaeological evidence proves Native presence thousands years prior to that THEORY.

10,000+ years of expertise on the land beneath your feet.

Are you always so presumptuous with theories? I' m sure your native but without the "t'.

There is no such evidence. Which is why the Indians lay all claim to ancient archeology discovered in the US less it be fully investigated and expose the truth.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

From Wikipedia:

The Bering Strait Land Bridge Theory

Based on anthropological, genetic, and linguistic evidence, scholars generally agree that most indigenous peoples of the Americas descend from people who probably migrated from Siberia across the Bering Strait, 15,000-9,000 years ago. The exact epoch and route is still a matter of debate, and continual challenges are issued to this model. For more information, see Models of migration to the New World and Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact.

In spite of the lingering controversy about who were the first Americans, anthropologists and archaeologists generally agree that most of the indigenous peoples who lived in the New World right before the European conquest descended from Siberian hunters, who entered North America about ten millennia ago, and then gradually spread to Central and South America.

Several genetic surveys have indicated clear affinities between present-day indigenous American populations and peoples of Siberia. According to Ilya Zakharov of Moscow's Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, the Northern Native Americans are related to the Tuvans, a Turkic group of people located in the Tuva Republic at the southwestern edge of Siberia. The general consensus of such studies is that at least three separate migrations from Siberia to the Americas are highly likely to have occurred:

* The first wave came into a land populated by the large mammals of the late Pleistocene, including mammoths, horses, giant sloths, and woolly rhinoceroses. The Clovis culture would be a manifestation of that migration, and the Folsom culture, based on the hunting of bison, would have developed from it. This wave eventually spread over the entire hemisphere, as far south as Tierra del Fuego, and became the inhabitants of central to eastern North America and most if not all of Central and South America.

* The second migration brought the ancestors of the Na-Dene peoples. They lived in Alaska and western Canada, but some migrated as far south as the Pacific Northwestern U.S. and the American Southwest, and would be ancestral to the Dene, Apaches and Navajos.

* The third wave brought the ancestors of the Eskimos (Inuit) and the Aleuts. They may have come by sea over the Bering Strait, after the land bridge had disappeared.

* In recent years, molecular genetics studies have suggested as many as four distinct migrations from Asia. These studies also provide surprising evidence of smaller-scale, contemporaneous migrations from Europe, possibly by peoples who had adopted a lifestyle resembling that of the Inuit and Yupiks during the last ice age.

One result of these successive waves of migration is that large groups of peoples with similar languages and perhaps physical characteristics as well, moved into various geographic areas of North, and then Central and South America. While these peoples have traditionally remained primarily loyal to their individual tribes, ethnologists have variously sought to group the myriad of tribes into larger entities which reflect common geographic origins, linguistic similarities, and life styles. (See Classification of indigenous peoples of the Americas.)

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Are you always so presumptuous with theories? I' m sure your native but without the "t'.

And Miss Native(with-no)Charm, why do you have to turn every debate into a personal attack?

Haven't you ever learned how to argue?

Stick to the theories and the facts, leave out the personal attacks.

[NativeCharm]

Our creation theories are a part of of our spiritual belief system and are quite different from yours. I'm sure you knew that already. Much of the "migration" theories have been contested by many Native tribes whose oracle history says different.

I refuse to debate over different sets of beliefs.

It seems to me that this is an attempt to discredit the Native heritage.