NL election

[SpankyMcFarland]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The deal is still going to have you selling power to come back at A cut rate which then they make money on reselling to the united states. I don't care for it in that respect, feels like a province should benefit from its own resources. But the current rate is borderline slavery and the one I saw proposed in the deal was at least reasonable. You could wait till the contract is over and then renegotiate but that's a waste of the road and who knows what the circumstances will be by then.

It's a bit of a Mexican standoff in that respect. Quebec makes a lot of its money selling your power and it can't afford for that deal to go away which it might if they wait until things expire. NL can't afford to go without the billions of dollars they'd make between now and then.  Both sides need a deal now. 

The current deal lasts until 2041. I’d like to be alive to see a better one. If Quebec or Canada had signed such an exploitative, long-term agreement with a developing country they would have been shamed into tearing it up decades ago or the other side would have gone to war to get rid of it. For NL the situation is like the oil crisis of 1973 (a very long time ago and yet four years after our infamous contract was inked) or the current tension between Ethiopia and Egypt. Talk to Newfoundlanders about the matter and they’ll have a hard time stopping green slime shooting out of their heads. We can’t wait even another five years for a reasonable deal that shares profits in a more equitable manner. Without a major cash injection we are an ever diminishing old folks home unable to pay our bills. So there’s no question we are more desperate for a new deal than Quebec is. Obviously, Hydro Quebec see the need to nail down their future power supply as well but we’re just one part of that picture for them - 15% at the moment but it could be more if the new projects on the river go through. Perhaps I am imagining this but I got the feeling from Legault and his officials that they were aware of the history and wanted to share the resource more fairly. I very much doubt the sister party of Mr. Blanchet, whom I cannot stand watching for more than a few seconds at a time, will be concerned about such matters. 

Edited October 16, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[August1991]

On 10/14/2025 at 7:54 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

The resource is owned by the country and the province it’s in. Getting it out should be a secondary matter not subject to extortion. We have been way too lenient in these cases and it has hurt Canada. 

Disagree.

If I own zillions of gold on the Moon. I am not rich.  The person who figures out how to bring my gold to the Earth is rich.

Newfoundlanders understand this about fish - and the Labrador coast.

Newfoundlanders have never understood this about Churchill Falls.

[August1991]

Like our federal guy Carney, this guy Wakeham barely won.

Let's see what's happens.

[SpankyMcFarland]

8 hours ago, August1991 said:

Disagree.

If I own zillions of gold on the Moon. I am not rich.  The person who figures out how to bring my gold to the Earth is rich.

Newfoundlanders understand this about fish - and the Labrador coast.

Newfoundlanders have never understood this about Churchill Falls.

Canada is not the moon. It is a federation where reasonable co-operation should be expected. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Canada is not the moon. It is a federation where reasonable co-operation should be expected. 

Nobody should be expected to sacrifice on behalf of another province. Making accommodation is one thing but it's something else entirely to expect a province to bear risk and cost for no benefit while another province makes a fortune.

Confederation is about cooperation not exploitation

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Nobody should be expected to sacrifice on behalf of another province. Making accommodation is one thing but it's something else entirely to expect a province to bear risk and cost for no benefit while another province makes a fortune.

Confederation is about cooperation not exploitation

Nobody is asking for that in NL. Reasonable accommodation is all we want. The problem between NL and Quebec reflects our basic architecture as a country. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Nobody is asking for that in NL. Reasonable accommodation is all we want. The problem between NL and Quebec reflects our basic architecture as a country. 

Sure, and as I recall harper lent a bunch of money to the Atlantic provinces to develop electricity infrastructure to the states.

I agree that Quebec tricked newfoundland into an outrageously bad deal by exploiting issues that the current leader at the time had and that he acted in the worst interest for his province and not the best.

But still it is a valid point that if you are going to use another Provinces land and access then they are due reasonable compensation

[SpankyMcFarland]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure, and as I recall harper lent a bunch of money to the Atlantic provinces to develop electricity infrastructure to the states.

I agree that Quebec tricked newfoundland into an outrageously bad deal by exploiting issues that the current leader at the time had and that he acted in the worst interest for his province and not the best.

But still it is a valid point that if you are going to use another Provinces land and access then they are due reasonable compensation

Yes, due compensation. Nobody that I know would disagree with a reasonable revenue sharing program. After all, Quebec will shoulder a lot of the future building costs on the river. I think the MOU offers that but I seem to be in the minority here at the moment. The outgoing government slipped up by not having a credible, arm’s length independent assessment of the deal. However, if we miss out on it we will have a tragedy on our hands. 

I think the federal government should have developed basic guidelines for how provinces should co-operate in resource development. 
 

 

Edited October 16, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes, due compensation. Nobody that I know would disagree with a reasonable revenue sharing program. After all, Quebec will shoulder a lot of the future building costs on the river. I think the MOU offers that but I seem to be in the minority here at the moment. The outgoing government slipped up by not having a credible, arm’s length independent assessment of the deal. However, if we miss out on it we will have a tragedy on our hands. 

I think the federal government should have developed basic guidelines for how provinces should co-operate in resource development. 
 

 

Well hopefully it'll work out. It isn't Quebec's interest to secure this and not leave it up to chance for the future so I would still hold out hope that a deal is in the works

[SpankyMcFarland]

Quote

I think the MOU offers that but I seem to be in the minority here at the moment. 

Quoting myself now, a sure sign of madness…to clarify, when I say ‘here’ there I mean my province. The guy who rejected the MOU won the election. So the people have spoken but people and provinces don’t always work in their own self-interest. It could take ten years to get a deal again if we don’t seize this opportunity. If I’m lucky I’ll be in the nursing home to hear the good news. 

Edited October 17, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 10/16/2025 at 2:15 PM, CdnFox said:

Sure, and as I recall harper lent a bunch of money to the Atlantic provinces to develop electricity infrastructure to the states.

I agree that Quebec tricked newfoundland into an outrageously bad deal by exploiting issues that the current leader at the time had and that he acted in the worst interest for his province and not the best.

But still it is a valid point that if you are going to use another Provinces land and access then they are due reasonable compensation

When you read the history of the negotiations, the impression is that the NL side basically disintegrated. By the end there was no money or fight left. It was all a bit reminiscent of the German surrender in 1918. Smallwood was told about the rate the province was going to receive and didn’t seem to fully understand its horrible significance or the contract within the contract that would extend our nightmare for another 25 years. Danny Williams personified the rage we felt and almost ruined us as he put every megawatt of it into the Muskrat Falls debacle, a tragedy on a Greek scale. Of course, beyond the province few noticed our tribulations at all. 

Edited October 17, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

I’m not the only one who sees potential trouble ahead:

Quote

 

Bellevance says with Francois Legault facing a general election next fall, and with low polling numbers, it’s unlikely a similar deal can be reached with a possible PQ government in Quebec. He says he can’t blame the new NL premier for trying to get the best deal possible for the province, but he says if this deal falls through, any new renegotiation may have to wait until the current contract runs out in 2041. “That’s the risk that’s in front of all of us,” says Bellevance.

https://vocm.com/2025/10/16/la-presse-reporter-believes-renegotiation-of-hydro-deal-could-have-to-wait-until-2041-if-current-mou-falls-through/

And we were told this already: 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/churchill-deal-waiting-1.7424285

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[August1991]

On 10/16/2025 at 9:53 AM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Canada is not the moon. It is a federation where reasonable co-operation should be expected. 

True. Levesque said exactly this to Smallwood in the early 1960s.

===

But Smallwood, thinking he owned the gold on the moon, wanted it all.

  

[August1991]

To clarify, in the 1960, the Churchill Falls had huge potential. But the project posed engineering problems, and how to send this electricity to market.

How to borrow the money to build such a project?

Levesque met Smallwood and said: let's do this. Smallwood answer was no.

=====

Smallwood finally got the money to build the project on the guarantee of a different Quebec minister.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

There’s already talk of NL’s debt being downgraded. We don’t have the luxury of lots of time to sort this out. 

[August1991]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There’s already talk of NL’s debt being downgraded. We don’t have the luxury of lots of time to sort this out. 

Newfoundlanders are like the guys in Iceland, crazy risk takers.

Hogan got a good deal - but Nlders want more, push the envelope.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Newfoundlanders are like the guys in Iceland, crazy risk takers.

 

There is nothing the same between newfoundland and Iceland. 

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Hogan got a good deal - but Nlders want more, push the envelope.

Quebec has been essentially stealing from them for decades, why wouldn't they want the best deal they can get now?

[August1991]

On 10/18/2025 at 1:51 AM, CdnFox said:

There is nothing the same between newfoundland and Iceland. 

Quebec has been essentially stealing from them for decades, why wouldn't they want the best deal they can get now?

What is the value of Churchill Falls?

-the water falling

-the technology to bring the electricity to market

-the reputation to borrow the money to make it happen

===

Too many Nflders think that Churchill Falls is the water falling. 

[August1991]

And of all places, Labrador.

Newfoundlanders never gave a f*ck about Labrador - except the coast.

[SpankyMcFarland]

It’s natural for any province to seek the best deal it can get. Danny Williams is convinced that Quebec is under pressure too. Here is his take on the deal:

https://www.saltwire.com/newfoundland-labrador/letter-former-nl-premier-danny-williams-pens-letter-to-pm-on-churchill-falls-mou

And here is a response:

https://www.saltwire.com/newfoundland-labrador/andrew-parsons-churchill-falls-mou

Our own power lines across Quebec would be nice to have no question but provinces have been given great leeway in these matters to control their territory. Mr Williams’s credibility is severely constrained by his own mistakes with Muskrat Falls, a project that almost ruined the province. 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 10/20/2025 at 3:15 AM, August1991 said:

What is the value of Churchill Falls?

-the water falling

-the technology to bring the electricity to market

-the reputation to borrow the money to make it happen

===

Too many Nflders think that Churchill Falls is the water falling. 

It’s a question of sovereignty. When BP told the Iranians they were getting great value for their oil with BP doing all the mining and refining, the Iranians said we can do better because we own the basic resource and we can get other people in. That’s not an option NL has been allowed in Canada. 

Edited October 21, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[August1991]

On 10/21/2025 at 3:02 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

It’s a question of sovereignty. When BP told the Iranians they were getting great value for their oil with BP doing all the mining and refining, the Iranians said we can do better because we own the basic resource and we can get other people in. That’s not an option NL has been allowed in Canada. 

Strongly disagree.

Newfoundlanders foolishly, typically believe that they "own" gold.

=====

Ownership belongs to the person who can borrow, make it happen.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Anyway, I hope Wakeham is going to be put under immediate pressure to find a better deal if he can and get a referendum done ASAP. What a mad promise to make. The voters could easily have soured on him by then - I’d say support is beginning to curdle already - and may reject his deal for that reason alone. We have to remember that the clock is ticking for Legault too. 

Edited October 25, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 10/18/2025 at 3:21 AM, CdnFox said:

There is nothing the same between newfoundland and Iceland. 

One is at the centre of its world and the other is at the very edge. 

[August1991]

On 10/25/2025 at 6:13 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Anyway, I hope Wakeham is going to be put under immediate pressure to find a better deal...

 

Like Smallwood, there's always the dream of a better deal.

=====

People have survived for 1000 years on Iceland. Icelanders have a sustainable community. 

People have survived for 300 years on the island of Newfoundland. Around the world, people know the Newfoundland accent.