act of terrorism

[betsy]

leafless:

There is NO excuse for authorities not to end this nonsense.

They are sitting on their thumbs where the sun don't shine waiting for a better day it seems.

As far as I know there is only one society in Canada and that is a civilized society and authorties it appears don't want to civilize it ...one word to describe the pansy action of our authorities refusal to end this Native uprising..unbelievable.

Geez...we could have used your opinion back in 1995, when this whole issue first went to court at the SCC. H

How come you didn't get on the Feds case then, instead of waiting til now? would've saved a lot of anguish in the present.

On another note, are you trying to argue that the actions of the Kaledonians at the blockade were civilized?

Buddy, I've seen more civility coming from a bunch of drunked-up fans fighting at an Argo game than anything we've seen at Kaledonia.

Again, you're barking up the wrong tree!

Harping about the reactions of the citizens of Caledonia isn't going to solve your problems. It's only aggravating it...causing more harm than good. I am a minority myself....and yet I find it hard to emphatize with a group that's victimizing ordinary folks like me who just wants to go through my daily business and pay my bills on time like everybody else. Even if you whine til you're blue in the face...what can an ordinary Joe like me do, besides, I have no obligation to take up your fight. You're hurting...and alienating even those who could be neutral...or even understanding...of your problems by resorting to this. Whoever is advising your group should be replaced. It's bad for your image.

Instead of taking your plight to heart...you incur more ridicule...and frankly, taken as a joke. I heard someone here say: "Blockade? It's their way to get pissed and have a party!"

Sure it's a racist thing to say....but when you become destructive to innocent people, being racist becomes justified for a lot!

Perhaps you should nag on your chieftains...after all, isn't it their job to see through the welfare of their people? And THEY ARE the ones in the political arena who can do something about it.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Betsy - the victims.. now just who are the real victims here - the residents of Caledonia ( whom i can understand a little of their angst - going without power for a few days and having to drive a few minutes more around a blockade ) OR the Native people as a whole who have been bullied since 1492?

How can you even fathom to compare the US invasion of Afganistan in response to 9/11, to a deathless protest!?!?

You are seriously comparing the death of nearly 3000 to a road blockade?

To the best of my knowledge no Native group has ever commited an attack such as what happened on that dark day. But feel free to educate me with any credible proof you can provide.

All the Native people that I have talked to were sickened just like everyone else about 9/11.

The comparison is ludicris but defintely a topic for another thread ( Thank You Temagami *wink* )

The fact that they've deliberately vandalised to cause power outage had caused in disruptions (and economic/financial loss)....is also an act of terrorism.

Caledonia and its people were "held hostage".....it was akin to "pay-up-or-else."....

Is it VANDALISM or is it TERRORISM? because it cant really be both. ( read KrustyKidd's post carefully )

Held Hostage?

One big point which you dont seem to understand is that the transformer was damaged by one or two people only - why should the whole group be penalised for the unsanctioned actions of a few?

I hadnt realised the locals were barred from leaving the area?

AND the protesters are not asking for a penny from the residents of Caledonia.

What do they (citizens) have to do with government policies and legal matters?

The answer to this is nothing - which begs the question - Why are they so affected by the protest? They dont gain or lose a thing if the developer builds or not. Driving around a blockade shouldnt give rise to the aggressive response of the local people - I dont undersatnd what they hope to gain by increasing tensions. If the protesters were removed the only thing to be gained is the use of the road - which really isnt a major inconveniece ( an extra few minutes in exchange for people fighting to preserve their rights? too much to ask? )

arrest those who actually vandalised....ergo, take your protests directly to those who can do something about it and leave the poor ordinary folks alone.

Betsy - they have been taking this to the government - for ages now. It hasnt done any good because the government could ignore the problem since the whole issue was kept virtually private - the public at large had no access to any information. The protest has provided some of that through media attention - and lo and behold!! Non-Native people suddenly care about whats going on!!

So KUDOS to the people who were brave enough to begin the protest, and succesfully bring needed attention to the issue.

You're wrong, Tem.

It's like a kid who pushed...and the victim decided to push back. A natural response to bullying tactics.

The blockade by the Indians have instigated a response. This is like the response of the US to Afghanistan....after they were hit by 9/11.

Now, don't go spouting off about your legal land woes. Whether it's legit or not is not the point.

Most ordinary citizens couldn't care less about any other major political problems...until it directly affects them. Caledonia citizenry were clearly directly affected. What do they (citizens) have to do with government policies and legal matters?

As Krak had said, arrest those who actually vandalised....ergo, take your protests directly to those who can do something about it and leave the poor ordinary folks alone.

[scribblet]

I thought this article from Australia was appropriate for this thread, didn't want to start another thread.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...6-21223,00.html

'Connectedness' to land ties Aborigines to squalor

May 25, 2006

DAVID Brooks (Letters, 24/5) might be right about Aboriginal "connectedness" to places of spiritual, historical, personal and group significance, just as Anglo-Celtic culture once had connectedness to Stonehenge, witchcraft and tribal lore.

But we moved on to something better – a rational, scientific culture based on the rule of law that gave us longer, safer, healthier and more enjoyable lives.

People like Mr Brooks are consistently contradictory, arguing on the one hand that Aborigines must reject urban life to preserve the immense value of their culture, and on the other that white culture must provide all the benefits of urban life to them wherever they choose to live.

But no one can have their cake and eat it too. The benefits of modern life require personal responsibility, education and participation in the job market, not victim-hood, tribal custom, welfare dependency and a belief that personal identity and dignity are dependent on connectedness to one's tribe, land and ancestors, rather than on one's personal choices and actions.

John Dawson

McKinnon, Vic

[betsy]

Betsy - the victims.. now just who are the real victims here - the residents of Caledonia ( whom i can understand a little of their angst - going without power for a few days and having to drive a few minutes more around a blockade ) OR the Native people as a whole who have been bullied since 1492?

The reality is: majority of people couldn't care less about political issues. So whether your people had been victimized since the beginning of time, what matters to most everyday folks is their everyday life!

It doesn't help to victimize them NOW....for whether we understand the root problem of native people or not....or whether your land claim is legit or not....these people do not have anything to do with it.

[betsy]

How can you even fathom to compare the US invasion of Afganistan in response to 9/11, to a deathless protest!?!?

You are seriously comparing the death of nearly 3000 to a road blockade?

To the best of my knowledge no Native group has ever commited an attack such as what happened on that dark day. But feel free to educate me with any credible proof you can provide.

All the Native people that I have talked to were sickened just like everyone else about 9/11.

I am comparing the reaction. I know it is miniscule compared to 9/11...but it did provoked a violent response. I am referring to the violence that erupted in Caledonia.

[betsy]

One big point which you dont seem to understand is that the transformer was damaged by one or two people only - why should the whole group be penalised for the unsanctioned actions of a few?

Same as the big point that your beef is with the government. Why should the people of Caledonia be penalised for it?

Take your protest to the government.

[betsy]

What do they (citizens) have to do with government policies and legal matters?

The answer to this is nothing - which begs the question - Why are they so affected by the protest?

Because your protest directly affects them! It costs them!

[geoffrey]

I thought this article from Australia was appropriate for this thread, didn't want to start another thread.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...6-21223,00.html

'Connectedness' to land ties Aborigines to squalor

May 25, 2006

DAVID Brooks (Letters, 24/5) might be right about Aboriginal "connectedness" to places of spiritual, historical, personal and group significance, just as Anglo-Celtic culture once had connectedness to Stonehenge, witchcraft and tribal lore.

But we moved on to something better – a rational, scientific culture based on the rule of law that gave us longer, safer, healthier and more enjoyable lives.

People like Mr Brooks are consistently contradictory, arguing on the one hand that Aborigines must reject urban life to preserve the immense value of their culture, and on the other that white culture must provide all the benefits of urban life to them wherever they choose to live.

But no one can have their cake and eat it too. The benefits of modern life require personal responsibility, education and participation in the job market, not victim-hood, tribal custom, welfare dependency and a belief that personal identity and dignity are dependent on connectedness to one's tribe, land and ancestors, rather than on one's personal choices and actions.

John Dawson

McKinnon, Vic

Great OP there. If you want further reading along those lines of argument, Tom Flanagan has a brilliant book 'First Nations, Second Thoughts'. You can pick it up at libraries and Chapters/Indigo.

[Temagami Scourge]

If you are interested in making a donation, the contact info is at the bottom of the release. Maybe Kaledonians can get something going for themselves too:

MEDIA RELEASE

May 25th, 2006

We invite our Brothers, Sisters, Friends and Allies to a BENEFIT CONCERT FOR "KANENHSTATON "- THE PROTECTED PLACE, FRIDAY, JUNE 16TH, IN SIX NATIONS (Chiefswood Park) OHSWEKEN, ON STARTING AT NOON - NO DRUGS,ALCOHOL OR VIOLENCE - ZERO TOLERANCE

As I am sure you are now all aware of the tense situation in Six Nations with regards to reclamation efforts, and that we are in the process of stopping the illegal construction of a housing project on Six Nations land. We need your continued help, solidarity and support to stand with us. Our talented and successful Indigenous performers and entertainers would be honored to perform for ALL our brothers, sisters, friends and allies. We are inviting you ALL to a Benefit Concert in Support of Six Nations Reclamation Efforts, and bring peace to a difficult situation. Admittance to the concert will be by cash donation, and will be kept in trust for the Reclamation Efforts.

As the SPEARHEADER of this Concert, we want to say KHENORONHKWA, (we offer you love medicine) as we appreciate all the Indigenous artists and musicians who have already confirmed and stand with us in support. It has been OVERWHELMING.

We have Keith Secola, Willie Dunn, The Shane Anthony Band, The Pappy Johns Band, Digging Roots, Howard Lyons and Joseph Fire Crow (just to name a few), confirmed for the big date. In total we have over 27 bands booked for this date, and they are coming from as far away as New Mexico to do this!!!!!!

Please note that All our First Nations performers are coming to do this Benefit Concert on their own dime, and out of the goodness of their hearts, to stand in solidarity with Six Nations and The People.

We also want to say a HUGE and heartfelt Nya:wen (thank you) to our Brothers at GRAND RIVER ENTERPRISES, who have stepped up to the plate and have sponsored a World Class Stage with all the bells and whistles. Only the BEST will do for our First Nations Artists and Entertainers!!!!

We have also been receiving donations of Artwork from Aboriginal Artists across Canada and the US, so that we may have an Art Auction with all the proceeds going to the Reclamation Efforts in Six Nations. The date of this Auction will be announced at the concert. KEEP IT COMING....A BIG THANK YOU TO OUR TALENTED FIRST NATIONS ARTISTS OUT THERE!!! NYA:WEN KOWA!!!

Well known First Nations Actor, Gary Farmer,(Pow Wow Highway, Smoke Signals)and First Nations Actress/Singer Cheri Maracle(Black Fly, Moccasin Flats) have confirmed their support as MC for this benefit. You are ALL welcome to come and support us, and enjoy some of the finest First Nations talent across Canada and the U.S. Indigenous artists CAN make a difference.

Let's all take a stand together.

ITS FOR OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR FUTURE. WE NEED TO REMEMBER WHERE WE CAME FROM. We need to rally behind Six Nations and The People. Please send this on to your fellow Indigenous Musicians, Artists, and Entertainers. We want to show the Unity among our Peoples and our supporters across Canada and the U.S.. LETS TURN THIS INTO AN INDIGENOUS ""WOODSTOCK FOR UNITY""

If you are NOT available to perform, then please feel free to send any donations; Art work, CDs, or anything you can, from your heart, to show your support.

Keep up the great work everyone!!!!!!

Please contact our events Coordinator, Tuesday Johnson-MacDonald, of TAP

Resources (519-445-1794) [email protected] on how YOU can help,

and/

OR SEND MONETARY DONATIONS TO : TAP Resources, Six Nations Reclamation

Efforts

P.O. Box 669, Ohsweken, ON N0A 1M0

Performers and Artists: Contact David R. Maracle, www.davidrmaracle.com

before May 31, 2006 to confirm your appearance as a performer,

613-396-2767;

[betsy]

Is it VANDALISM or is it TERRORISM? because it cant really be both. ( read KrustyKidd's post carefully )

Held Hostage?

AND the protesters are not asking for a penny from the residents of Caledonia.

It is vandalism AND terrorism! Why can't it be both?

Whether the power outage was only for a few days....it is not up to you to conclude that what happened was just an inconvenience.

What may be an inconvenience to you....could be a grave situation for someone.

Besides, you have no right to cause an inconvenience.

[betsy]

The protest has provided some of that through media attention - and lo and behold!! Non-Native people suddenly care about whats going on!!

True. And discussing it nonetheless. They may care about what's going on....but caring for who is the big question.

You could have had your protest just like other non-natives who'd protested before you without having to hurt innocents (financially and economically) who have nothing to do with your problem.

True the power outage may've been cause by one or two people....however, it is the responsibility of your organizer to see to it that nothing like this should've happened...considering the previous tension-filled blockades that had happened in the past.

[Rue]

Isn't messing with our hydro service an act of terrorism? I live in Simcoe, my power was out from Monday at 3Pm Till Wed at 3:55 Am. My fridge and frezzer products are now curbside for garbage collection. My Place of Employment was also closed so I have lost wages on top of that. This is a peaceful protest? Who will compensate my family?

Sorry to hear. If you want my legal opinion, you could in theory sue if you could show a direct co-relation between the actions of a human being and the damages you incurred. Proving who did it and establishing a nexus or direct connection could prove tricky. Eventually it will take someone's death from one of these kinds of things to get anyone's proper attention.

[PocketRocket]

We have Keith Secola.....

Kieth is a good performer, and a very funny guy.

A few years back, I was doing sound at the last Three Fires Music Festival in Wikwemikong on Manitoulin Island.

Kieth was one of the featured performers.

The band playing immediately before Kieth's appearance didn't show up, so myself, and the rest of the sound and lighting crew took the stage for an hour using the instruments from the previous band, which they were kind enough to allow us to use.

All of us on the crew are/were professional musicians as well as techs.

We did our thing, just doing cover tunes for the hour to keep the party rolling.

When Kieth took the stage with his acoustic guitar, he asked us to stay on and jam with him, saying "You guys are great, stick around, it'll be more fun than just me and an acoustic".

So we did.

Then Kieth introduced the "band" as "Walkerton's Water".

I was ErniE. Coli.

Sam O. Nella was the drummer.

Bob Tulism playing lead guitar.

The way the "introductions" rolled off his tongue like he wasn't even thinking about it was probably the funniest thing.

Had a blast jamming with him.

Yeah I know, off topic, but seeing his name here brought back some great memories.

[Ahni]

Hey. I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but I can say I've been watching what's happening in Caledonia since day 1. In fact I am part Haudenausaunee, and I can say without reservation (hold the laughs) that the Haudenosaunee DID NOT cause the recent power outage.

The Traditional Council has made it abundantly clear that acts of violence are not to be inititiated, and this is has been, is being, and will continue to be respected - no exceptions.

Here is a recent statement from Hazel Hill, camp spokesperson

From: TheBasketCase <[email protected]>

Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:32 AM

Hello from Grand River

Things are pretty quiet around the site these days. Maybe too quiet.

I've been reading alot in the surrounding newspapers. Caledonia mayor marie trainer was quoted this week as saying the army should be brought in. one of her councillors thinks that the government should just cut off all of the funding that comes into the territory. "cut off the tax exempt cards, cut off the monthly cheques, cut off the food banks..." (I still wonder where they get the idea that monthly cheques come to our people.) my response to those types of suggestions is "you're absolutely right!", but first the crown should pay the billions and billions of dollars owed on land leases, the taxes collected on our land, the resources taken from our land and compensations for the destruction of the lands stolen and abused etc. etc. If the crown paid her debt to our people there would be no need for the scraps that come to our people through their government structure. and then there is the interest monies on top of all that. when canada pays her debt we'll gladly get rid of all of those other things.

wonder if canadians realize they've been duped? they talk as if we are a burden to them. like they're supporting us. does it not occur to them that they are the burden. they have been freeloading off our lands and resources for thousands of years. even IF, and i say if because we know that the land "surrenders" are fraudulent, but IF the 1841 surrender was real, where is the money?????????? they have never paid for one single lease that they have obtained throughout history (to my knowledge anyway). when you lease a car and don't pay for it what happens.....they take it back. that's exactly what we did with our lands. in fact, we should be ready to re-possess the whole haldimand and then let PM Harper say that it's not a federal matter.

and as far as mayor trainer's irresponsible remarks about bringing in the army.....guess she doesn't think much of her citizens in caledonia if she really wants a war zone in her back yard. and they call us terrorists! then she was quoted as saying that the natives damaged the hydro station causing the power outage in caledonia, six nations, hagersville etc. "it was definitely natives" trainer said friday (quoted from the Brantford Expositor) The fact of the matter is that there is no way anyone will no for certain whether it was natives or non-natives who did the damage because all of our people were up on the front line, and ANYONE could have done the damage. we had removed the barricade at #6 hwy and 6th line the night before, and the opp were the only ones at the end of #6 (argyle st) and #6 bypass. we had opened up the road for pete's sake and she is trying to say that she knows it was natives.

all throughout this reclaimation we have had non-native shit disturbers sneaking into the camp for one purpose and one purpose only, to try to discredit and disrupt the peace. we have had the army dude who admitted to shooting one of our men in the face a few day's before he was caught. we have the idiots in camoflauge on four wheelers taunting our men and the opp trying to incite the war. they brought their video camera with them and proudly turned it over to tv 11 but for some reason were ashamed enough to want to have their faces hidden. and they are the jackasses who threw rocks over the bi-pass and could have potentially killed someone but blamed it on our men because their camera caught one of our men throwing something back at them. look at the direction of the throw and look at where the barricade was. we were over half way over the #54 hwy so there is no way we caused any damage to any vehicles. it was all a set-up. and then there was the fire at the barn across the road the night after the police raid on April 20th. even the farmer believes it was non-natives who were trying to make it look like we were vandalizing the neighbourhood. and yet our men are the ones who went to put out the fire even before the fire trucks arrived. on thursday nite we were accused of shining laser lights and shooting off firecrackers and rattling the nerves of the opp. next night they caught 3 non-native punks with their firecrackers and bottle rockets after having fired off a few, again to try and incite the war.

we are continuously having to deal with this type of action and yet do we retaliate? no. we keep the peace. we turn over the idiots when we catch them in our camp. we could beat the crap out of them and teach them a lesson and i'll tell you, i give our men the deepest respect and credit for NOT doing it! and why shouldn't we? do you see us going into caledonia and acting like idiots? do we sneak around trying to incite a war? we have kept the peace. we are upholding our Law and yet we are criminalized for it. to me the criminals are the ones who refuse to look at the truth. they make ignorant comments like "just because your ancestors sold the land for beads and now you're crying about it" and other stupid remarks that a kindergarten child would say in a playground fight. i hope stephen harper and marie trainer realize that we are beyond kindergarten and this ain't no playground.

and in answer to all of those who wonder or like marie trainer "know that the natives did it", all i can say is that it wasn't something that we did. our people were on the front line wondering why caledonia didn't want the plank road opened, and the first realization that the hydro was out was when we noticed that the street lights were off and then someone noticed the black smoke. so as far as i'm concerned anyone could have done the damage.

and i like how the government is so quick to respond with thousands of dollars to Henco and the Caledonia businesses for their losses, and yet get them to pay their debt with respect to land leases, they immediately send in negotiators to try and get out of it. how long have we waited for compensation. they don't want to pay up so they send in the guns. that's exactly what they did in 1924. our confederacy had asked for an accounting of the lease monies and rather than give the accounting (because they had already embezzled the money), they used the RCMP to bring in the guns and establish a form of government that they new they could control. and then they set up a process that requires big money to fight them and hundreds of years to get it into their courts. it is the biggest fraud going and the only reason they get away with it is because we let them.

and as far as the people who say that we wanted the band council system, the families that went and asked for this new form of government, is the same as it is today, a handful of people who didn't like the way things were going and rather than council and have their voices heard through the process, they went behind the back of our people and sold us out. those same families still are in existance today. only this time, there is no way we are going to let them sell us out. we have our delegates at the table and the people are making the decisions just as it should be. and we are no longer going to let them hide behind their ficticious justice system. it is all a fraud based on unilateral decisions of the crown and that IS illegal.

then we have others who believe that they are the titleholders and that only they will make the decision. sorry to bust your bubble, but the few of you who meet are NOT a nation. you are like the rest of us. only a small number of people when standing alone. only together in Unity and Solidarity will we get through this and it is ALL OF THE ONKWEHONWEH who are affected by this. not just the Mohawks and not just Six Nations. the Onkwehonweh are the title holders to the world, and we have a responsibility to the onkwehonweh nations of the world to protect our land for the future of our people, in honesty, in peace and with integrity. setting up barriers to divide and conquer is the game the crown has played and by continually creating the divisions within, you are playing right along side of the crown and into their hands. perhaps you should look at who is guiding you and question their motives. the people at the site are doing what we are obligated to do according to the Law. We are working together with all of the Six Nations, including those from the other territories because yes they have a voice in our circle and yes they have an interest in what we are doing. it is not for selfish gain and it certainly isn't about money. i pray that you will come to an understanding and continue to work WITH the people and not against them. it is only you who can decide this.

finally, so that everyone is clear, Mr. Peterson has given the time frame of May 31st to have dealt with the barricades. i don't know exactly what his plan is, but i understand that is his goal. to have all of the barricades down by the 31st of May. the people need to be aware of this, because between the media using polls to suggest bringing in the army or using the opp to remove us, marie trainer and other's calling for the army to come in, and the history of our people and the way the government on behalf of the crown has always "dealt with" our people during any kind of "occupation", you need to be aware of the reality of the situation.

Keep the Peace, Keep Strong, and Keep getting the word out. As soon as we know of any further developments, we will let you know. talks are to resume on the 31st and we are having a people's council tomorrow. all are welcome.

hazel

[SaintLucifer]

Being Held Hostage By Terrorists

Source of Information:

-Merriam - Webster's Dictionary

- American Heritage Dictionary of English Language

3 Entries Found for Terrorism

1) The Unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or and organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments. Often for ideological or political reasons

2) Violent and Intimidating gang activity.

3) The calculated use of Violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature: this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

So what is the gov't waiting for?

Scrib...believe it or not, but you just identified the Kaledonians with the above post.

I guess that means that both parties at the blockade were terrorists, by your definition. If that is the case, then the Army needs to take out both groups, correct?

Now you are blaming the VICTIMS for terrorism? The Caledonians simply want the ability to travel on a road THEY own. They expect their right to earn a living for their family not to be interfered with. The natives are denying them this right. As a result, they are committing economic terrorism. As a fascist, I say it is time to bring in the Canadian Forces. The mailed fist of fascism would remove such terrorists from Crown lands.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Now you are blaming the VICTIMS for terrorism? The Caledonians simply want the ability to travel on a road THEY own. They expect their right to earn a living for their family not to be interfered with. The natives are denying them this right. As a result, they are committing economic terrorism. As a fascist, I say it is time to bring in the Canadian Forces. The mailed fist of fascism would remove such terrorists from Crown lands.

I know you're into that whole Fascist thing but could you tone down the red (you do know that red is the international socialist colour ) fonts. You stand out enough as it is.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Now you are blaming the VICTIMS for terrorism? The Caledonians simply want the ability to travel on a road THEY own. They expect their right to earn a living for their family not to be interfered with. The natives are denying them this right. As a result, they are committing economic terrorism. As a fascist, I say it is time to bring in the Canadian Forces. The mailed fist of fascism would remove such terrorists from Crown lands.

Firstly, Dark Lord

Read a few more posts in this thread.... If you did i might not have to reiterate again that conducting a peaceful protest ( blockading a road ) doesnt constitute terrorism.

The blockade is an inconvenience for motorists nothing more, you and others make it sound like the town is encirlced and the residents cant leave the town - this is ridiculous. On the subject of the transformer - read Ahni's post - it may enlighten - it gave me a few more facts that i had not realised. Specifically, the part where ANYONE could have had access to the transformer at the time it was damaged. So to ammend my previous statement -- One or two people did the damage - so lets identify and prosecute those who committed the vandalism whether it was a Native person or a resident of Caledonia. fair enough?

About your fascism......

fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)

n.

1. often Fascism

( A ) A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

( B ) A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

Oppressive, dictatorial control.

The only thing fascist about your posting is that you would advocate violence against a racial group to support a nations interests. the rest seems less so.....

ability to travel on a road THEY own.

How would the Dictator in your fascist state feel about this statement?

Wouldnt the road be HIS? THEY sounds almost Socialist *grin*

denying them this right.

I didnt think the rights of the individual or common population figured much into fascism being that the philosophy is diametrically opposed to Democracy and freedom.

The mailed fist of fascism would remove such terrorists from Crown lands

The dictator is supporting the Monarchy?

Using the above definition- Native people have been victims of fascism for many years.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Is it VANDALISM or is it TERRORISM? because it cant really be both. ( read KrustyKidd's post carefully )

Held Hostage?

AND the protesters are not asking for a penny from the residents of Caledonia.

It is vandalism AND terrorism! Why can't it be both?

Whether the power outage was only for a few days....it is not up to you to conclude that what happened was just an inconvenience.

What may be an inconvenience to you....could be a grave situation for someone.

Besides, you have no right to cause an inconvenience.

UPDATE!!! - read Ahnis post - ANYONE could have done the damage to the transformer, so lets wait for the Police to identify and prosecute the people involved - whether Native or Caledonian. So it may not be up to me to conclude what is considered an inconvenience AND therfore it isnt up to you to conclude it was a Native person who did the vandalism without any supporting facts.

WARNING!!!!! Definitions, Opinion and Semantics follow after the beep................ BEEEP

It is my personal feeling that the most commonly used definition of TERRORISM must include direct/indirect/threatened physical harm to human beings.

While i feel VANDALISM involves harm to property only.

and EVERYONE has the right to protest against policies they dont agree with - thats part of freedom isnt it?

[Machinations]

Being Held Hostage By Terrorists

Source of Information:

-Merriam - Webster's Dictionary

- American Heritage Dictionary of English Language

3 Entries Found for Terrorism

1) The Unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or and organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments. Often for ideological or political reasons

2) Violent and Intimidating gang activity.

3) The calculated use of Violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature: this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

So what is the gov't waiting for?

Scrib...believe it or not, but you just identified the Kaledonians with the above post.

I guess that means that both parties at the blockade were terrorists, by your definition. If that is the case, then the Army needs to take out both groups, correct?

Now you are blaming the VICTIMS for terrorism? The Caledonians simply want the ability to travel on a road THEY own. They expect their right to earn a living for their family not to be interfered with. The natives are denying them this right. As a result, they are committing economic terrorism. As a fascist, I say it is time to bring in the Canadian Forces. The mailed fist of fascism would remove such terrorists from Crown lands.

I hate to say it, but I respect the king that reigns with his fist. They are in defiance of a court order and should be thrown off the land pending the decision of the court. The ones who dug up the road should be arrested.

However, this is common sense, so don't look for it to happen.

[Enskat Kenraken Ronkwe]

Road is repaired and driveable - no charge! ( PUN INTENDED )

A court order should be followed but a signed legal document can be ignored? ( Haldimand Deed )

And really if you cant accept this agreement as fact, it doesnt provide any credibility to anything else the government signs.

Furthermore - the government chose to take the court case from the courts into the current negotiations, and wouldnt that preclude any court order and police action.

I think the OPP are acting very wisely - let the politicians work this out before they go and step in something.

Maybe the different levels of government should get on the same page.

( Federal, Porvincial, Munincipal and Policing )

[Johnny Utah]

Isn't messing with our hydro service an act of terrorism? I live in Simcoe, my power was out from Monday at 3Pm Till Wed at 3:55 Am. My fridge and frezzer products are now curbside for garbage collection. My Place of Employment was also closed so I have lost wages on top of that. This is a peaceful protest? Who will compensate my family?

Sure it's an act of terrorism. It's no different then what ELF(Earth Liberation Front) does in California.

[KrustyKidd]

UN Definition of Terrorism

The UN's "academic consensus definition," written by terrorism expert A.P. Schmid and widely used by social scientists, runs:

Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperilled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought," (Schmid, 1988).

And those appliances you had to throw out I take it had the bodies of dead, mutilated loved ones in them? If not, then it was an act of vandalism, not terror. If you consider vandalism terrorism, you must lead a sheltered life indeed.

Edit: I was in a bar saturday night and was a young fellow was given a drink that he thought was rather weak. When he complained, the bartender gave him an extra shot and told him (after some argueing) that he would be thrown out if he did not desist. I would consider this a form of terrorism if I followed your rule book.