Yes Europe Is A Military Freeloader - But That Is How USA Always Wanted It

[User]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The geography of the European peninsula has always posed a challenge to those who would unite it. An extraordinary transition was made after WWII with NATO and the EU but further military integration is urgently required to repel Russia. Inevitably, countries closer to the threat feel the pressure to rearm most strongly. Thus the new NATO nations in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe are leading the way. I think the EU needs to change. Any state supporting Russia should be suspended from the organization. If Orbán wins yet another election, Hungary has to go. The differences are just too great to be tolerated any more. Furthermore, if Putin keeps his nuclear rhetoric up, Germany may have to consider acquiring nuclear weapons too. 

It is simply amazing how partisan you are. Most of Europe is still importing gas in various forms from Russia today, yet you single out Hungary. 

 

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

After what we’ve seen from Trump how could any country trust America? 

What exactly have you seen from Trump?

America is still the largest contributor to the defense of NATO. Comments like yours are so absurdly outlandish. 

[John Stone]

On 12/6/2025 at 3:22 PM, User said:

It is simply amazing how partisan you are. Most of Europe is still importing gas in various forms from Russia today, yet you single out Hungary. 

 

What exactly have you seen from Trump?

America is still the largest contributor to the defense of NATO. Comments like yours are so absurdly outlandish. 

 

On 12/6/2025 at 3:22 PM, User said:

It is simply amazing how partisan you are. Most of Europe is still importing gas in various forms from Russia today, yet you single out Hungary. 

 

What exactly have you seen from Trump?

America is still the largest contributor to the defense of NATO. Comments like yours are so absurdly outlandish. 

Russia does not so much need to be repelled .............. that implies a Nato confrontation. Russia needed to be deterred? Deterrence was the strategy before 2014. 

Deterrence is the driving strategy behind NATO  ..........peace thru strength? 

Global deterrence is shifting ............

[BeaverFever]

On 12/6/2025 at 2:22 PM, User said:

t is simply amazing how partisan you are. Most of Europe is still importing gas in various forms from Russia today, yet you single out Hungary. 

They RELUCTANTLY import gas from Russia because they were foolish enough to become dependent on it years ago.  Just like how Trump and so many Republicans still have business dealings with China. Hungary actively supports Russia 

On 12/6/2025 at 2:22 PM, User said:

What exactly have you seen from Trump?

 

Trump’s National Security Strategy which Russia applauded, which basically calls for the destruction of the EU, the US to actively undermine Western European governments in favour of far-right populist “resistance” (which ate all pro-Russian parties) and the surrender of Ukraine  

No wonder the Kremlin said it “aligns” with their own strategy  

 

[User]

41 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

They RELUCTANTLY import gas from Russia because they were foolish enough to become dependent on it years ago.  Just like how Trump and so many Republicans still have business dealings with China. Hungary actively supports Russia 

You know who was lecturing Europe on being dependent on Russian gas BEFORE the invasion? LOL
 

41 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump’s National Security Strategy which Russia applauded, which basically calls for the destruction of the EU, the US to actively undermine Western European governments in favour of far-right populist “resistance” (which ate all pro-Russian parties) and the surrender of Ukraine  

No wonder the Kremlin said it “aligns” with their own strategy  

You asked how any country could trust America. This is not an answer that supports such an absurd statement. In fact, you make further outlandish comments, lying about what the National Security Strategy says. Nowhere does it "basically" call for the destruction of the EU. 

There is no "surrender" of Ukraine. 
Once again, you got nothing but outlandish lies. 

Edited December 11, 2025 by User

[BeaverFever]

27 minutes ago, User said:

You know who was lecturing Europe on being dependent on Russian gas BEFORE the invasion? LOL

So?

 

27 minutes ago, User said:

You asked how any country could trust America.

I never asked that. I KNOW no country can trust USA especially under Trump. 
 

27 minutes ago, User said:

Nowhere does it "basically" call for the destruction of the EU. 

It accuses the EU of “undermining political liberty and sovereignty” and says US should “cultivate resistance” within European countries. Imagine if any European country put out a policy document calling for “cultivating resistance” in the US. YOU PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY DECLARE WAR

 

27 minutes ago, User said:

There is no "surrender" of Ukraine. 

It calls for Ukraine to cede territory to Russia and nothing from Russia in return even though Russia started the war and gaining territory by military conquest is a violation of international law. 

 

27 minutes ago, User said:

Once again, you got nothing but outlandish lies. 

These are not lies. This is the take of everyone who is not an American Trump supporter. Pick up a newspaper 

[User]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

So?

LOL, remember this in the next thread you are in, lambasting Trump for his allegedly being on Russia's side or whatever nonsense version of that argument is being pushed. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

I never asked that. I KNOW no country can trust USA especially under Trump. 
 

Oh yeah, that was Spanky. 

Countries are trusting USA right now. You are speaking in hasty generalizations. A logical fallacy. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

It accuses the EU of “undermining political liberty and sovereignty” and says US should “cultivate resistance” within European countries. Imagine if any European country put out a policy document calling for “cultivating resistance” in the US. YOU PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY DECLARE WAR

You said it called for the destruction of the EU, not that it accused them of this. 

You are such a dishonest clown in the same damn document before it mentions that, it says:

"Enabling Europe to stand on its own feet and operate as a group of aligned sovereign nations, including by taking primary responsibility for its own defense, without being dominated by any adversarial power;"

or

"Our goal should be to help Europe correct its current trajectory. We will need a strong Europe to help us successfully compete, and"

The resistance being cultivated is to their repression of free speech as countries like Germany and UK send tactical teams to go arrest people for a social media post. 

 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

It calls for Ukraine to cede territory to Russia and nothing from Russia in return even though Russia started the war and gaining territory by military conquest is a violation of international law. 

That is not a surrender of Ukraine. 

Once again, if you could temper your stupidity on here with reasonable comments...

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

These are not lies. This is the take of everyone who is not an American Trump supporter. Pick up a newspaper 

Of course it is lies as I just showed you. 

[BeaverFever]

38 minutes ago, User said:

LOL, remember this in the next thread you are in, lambasting Trump for his allegedly being on Russia's side or whatever nonsense version of that argument is being pushed. 

He is on his own side, and the side of whoever flattered him last, and that tilts Russian. His only real objection to Europe buying Russian oil and gas is that he wanted them to buy more American oil and gas. 
 

38 minutes ago, User said:

Countries are trusting USA right now.

LMAO what alternative reality are you living in?  Trust in USA is at an all-time historic low, just like Trump’s approval ratings. 
 

38 minutes ago, User said:

You said it called for the destruction of the EU, not that it accused them of this. 

You are such a dishonest clown in the same damn document before it mentions that, it says:

"Enabling Europe to stand on its own feet and operate as a group of aligned sovereign nations, including by taking primary responsibility for its own defense, without being dominated by any adversarial power;"

or

"Our goal should be to help Europe correct its current trajectory. We will need a strong Europe to help us successfully compete, and"

It’s quite clear, Trumpism doesn’t want an EU. It hates the EU. That’s why it only talks about “sovereign nations” and all those far right groups it wants to elevate are anti-EU, as is Russia. 
 

And then there’s this:

Fuller version of Trump security strategy reportedly calls for “pulling Poland away from EU”
 

…

On Tuesday, Defense One published extracts from what it said was a “fuller version” of the strategy that had been circulating before the White House published the unclassified version.

The document listed Poland, Austria, Italy and Hungary as countries that the US should “work more with…with the goal of pulling them away from the [European Union]”, according to Defense One.

…

https://notesfrompoland.com/2025/12/10/fuller-version-of-trump-security-strategy-reportedly-calls-for-pulling-poland-away-from-eu/

 

 

38 minutes ago, User said:

The resistance being cultivated is to their repression of free speech as countries like Germany and UK send tactical teams to go arrest people for a social media post. 

1) Exaggeration.  “Tactical teams” were only used when they were targeting groups or individuals with ties to violence or weapons e.g, certain neo-nazi groups  Nearly all were just routine no-drama search warrants conducted by normal everyday officers in plainclothes or regular uniform 

2) Given Trump’s ICE crackdowns and arbitrary arrests and detentions including of US citizens they are hardly one to point fingers at other countries and there is no way you or any other American would tolerate European government saying they should “cultivate resistance” in the US to it

3) Regardless of what Trumpsists think of what European domestic policies are doing, it is not America’s place or concern. It’s not a “sovereign” Europe if the White House thinks it has the right to “cultivate resistance” to domestic policies that they don’t approve of. 
 

4) While the Trump NSS can’t figure out an single bad thing to say about Russia it bashes Europe at length with racist diatribes borrowed from “replacement theory” and supposes that it’s America’s job to protect and promote the racial purity of Europe all while paradoxically referring to promoting sovereign European countries   So you’re sovereign as long as you govern yourself in accordance with the racial and political ideology of the bigots in the White House.

 

 

[User]

54 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

He is on his own side, and the side of whoever flattered him last, and that tilts Russian. His only real objection to Europe buying Russian oil and gas is that he wanted them to buy more American oil and gas. 

Oh yes, of course, I forgot you hate America so much you would rather chop your nose of to spite your face. That was not his only real objection, he clearly called out the implications of being part of a strategic alliance against Russia while also enriching them with billions and dependency on their energy... 

And guess what, he was right. 

58 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO what alternative reality are you living in?  Trust in USA is at an all-time historic low, just like Trump’s approval ratings. 

No alternate reality. The US is still the worlds superpower, leader of NATO, and major ally of a ton of countries. I live in reality, while you live in your hate-filled heart, where you have to push these absurdly extreme, outlandish comments. 

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

1) Exaggeration.  “Tactical teams” were only used when they were targeting groups or individuals with ties to violence or weapons e.g, certain neo-nazi groups  Nearly all were just routine no-drama search warrants conducted by normal everyday officers in plainclothes or regular uniform 

BS. Person was arrested and prosecuted in England after a team of 11 officers came to her home to arrest her because she used the word F@$%ot in a text message. Elizabeth Kinney. Oh, or are you just quibbling over my calling them tactical teams?

Oh, my bad, pre-dawn armed police raids all over the country arresting people for *gasp* social media posts:

It's 6:01 on a Tuesday morning, and we were with state police as they raided this apartment in northwest Germany. Inside, six armed officers searched a suspect's home, then seized his laptop and cellphone. Prosecutors say those electronics may have been used to commit a crime. The crime? Posting a racist cartoon online. At the exact same time, across Germany, more than 50 similar raids played out. Part of what prosecutors say is a coordinated effort to curb online hate speech in Germany. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-60-minutes-transcript/

 

 

 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

After the Greenland saga and the utterly disgraceful comments about European soldiers in Afghanistan, I hope the oddly persistent delusion that Trump is a friend of Europe’s is well and truly gone from the mind of any reasonable person. Relying on US military equipment or high tech is no longer a safe option for any country.  

[User]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

After the Greenland saga and the utterly disgraceful comments about European soldiers in Afghanistan, I hope the oddly persistent delusion that Trump is a friend of Europe’s is well and truly gone from the mind of any reasonable person. Relying on US military equipment or high tech is no longer a safe option for any country.  

You want to do more damage than anything Trump has done. 

[BeaverFever]

On 12/11/2025 at 12:36 AM, User said:

Oh yes, of course, I forgot you hate America so much you would rather chop your nose of to spite your face. That was not his only real objection, he clearly called out the implications of being part of a strategic alliance against Russia while also enriching them with billions and dependency on their energy... 

And guess what, he was right. 

No alternate reality. The US is still the worlds superpower, leader of NATO, and major ally of a ton of countries. I live in reality, while you live in your hate-filled heart, where you have to push these absurdly extreme, outlandish comments. 

BS. Person was arrested and prosecuted in England after a team of 11 officers came to her home to arrest her because she used the word F@$%ot in a text message. Elizabeth Kinney. Oh, or are you just quibbling over my calling them tactical teams?

Oh, my bad, pre-dawn armed police raids all over the country arresting people for *gasp* social media posts:

It's 6:01 on a Tuesday morning, and we were with state police as they raided this apartment in northwest Germany. Inside, six armed officers searched a suspect's home, then seized his laptop and cellphone. Prosecutors say those electronics may have been used to commit a crime. The crime? Posting a racist cartoon online. At the exact same time, across Germany, more than 50 similar raids played out. Part of what prosecutors say is a coordinated effort to curb online hate speech in Germany. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-60-minutes-transcript/

 

 

 

 

I see this thread has aged well. We have all seen Trump’s aggression against Europe on full display, confirming everything in the OP. Destroying the NATO alliance so he can annex Greenland, which he ignorantly kept calling Iceland in his debased unhinged rambling diatribe in  Davos. 

 

Meanwhile, while I don’t know why there were 11 officers to arrest that woman (if that’s even true) that doesn’t make it “tactical”. She was jot taken down by a SWAT team which is what “tactical” means.   Furthermore as rights based democracy the voters of Europe are free to elect or un-elect the government or challenge itnin court if the people disagree with its policies at no point is the US entitled to meddle in internal politics by subverting those governments and aiding opposition parties. This is the same Teump government who thinks Doug Ford’s 100% accurate and transparent TV ads was unacceptable foreign meddling yet here they are proposing to interfere in  the internal politics of their “allies” to impose their own twisted ideology 

On 1/24/2026 at 7:54 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

After the Greenland saga and the utterly disgraceful comments about European soldiers in Afghanistan, I hope the oddly persistent delusion that Trump is a friend of Europe’s is well and truly gone from the mind of any reasonable person. Relying on US military equipment or high tech is no longer a safe option for any country.  

💯

[BeaverFever]

On 12/6/2025 at 12:11 AM, User said:

Feel free to call it out next time, if you stick around long enough before running away...

Well for starters you didn’t respond to any of the FACTS I cited in post above about USA not buying European military equipment and even rigging bids to exclude them. And instead attacked me. How bout them apples?

[User]

41 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

I see this thread has aged well. We have all seen Trump’s aggression against Europe on full display, confirming everything in the OP. Destroying the NATO alliance so he can annex Greenland, which he ignorantly kept calling Iceland in his debased unhinged rambling diatribe in  Davos. 

Wow, welcome back! In true fashion, you come back, ignore most of everything that was being discussed, and come up with more BS to post. 

NATO is not destroyed. Feel free to point out exactly what was confirmed. 

42 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Meanwhile, while I don’t know why there were 11 officers to arrest that woman (if that’s even true) that doesn’t make it “tactical”. She was jot taken down by a SWAT team which is what “tactical” means.   Furthermore as rights based democracy the voters of Europe are free to elect or un-elect the government or challenge itnin court if the people disagree with its policies at no point is the US entitled to meddle in internal politics by subverting those governments and aiding opposition parties. This is the same Teump government who thinks Doug Ford’s 100% accurate and transparent TV ads was unacceptable foreign meddling yet here they are proposing to interfere in  the internal politics of their “allies” to impose their own twisted ideology 

This is the dishonesty you engage in. You run away from these threads, come back and dig them up, and then lie about how we got here. 

You want to quibble over the semantics and ignore the actual point. You were lying about the National Security strategy and what was being talked about. I gave you an example of the liberty issues we have. 

Yeah, no shit Europe can do what it wants, they can lock people up for saying hello in the afternoon on Tuesdays, but the point remains, that is anti-liberty, and what they are doing is contrary to the Democratic principles of freedom of speech that the US stands for and as noted in the policy, Trump administration is going to oppose this garbage. 


 

36 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Well for starters you didn’t respond to any of the FACTS I cited in post above about USA not buying European military equipment and even rigging bids to exclude them. And instead attacked me. How bout them apples?

You claimed that I engage in strawman fallacies all the time. This is not pointing one out. 

 

[paxamericana]

On 4/13/2025 at 1:23 PM, BeaverFever said:

What USA really wants is for Europeans to support the US defence industry at the expense of their own and to have small European militaries that can do nothing except be an add-on niche accessory to a US force. 

This was the old calculus yes. But there’s one important aspect you’re not accounting for, demographic, Europe is declining in population and will no longer be able to field a competent military of size, they don’t have the population of workers to support a large military industrial complex and their retirement. A healthy economy and young population is needed for military adventurism. This is why America no longer feels the need to be engaged in Europe, they’re dying out. America suffers no rival. Not for the remainder of this century. 

Edited February 3 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

The U.S. is the World largest economy - no question about that. 

That said there is a lot of rhetoric that seems to discount what made it such a powerhouse. 

Most have heard the expression, 'it it ain't broke, don't fix it'. 

The collapse of the petro dollar, although not devastating economically to the U.S. will have an impact. 

The petro dollar basically paid American debt,

BRICS is an interesting development. 

The necessity for the international market to have USD in reserve will likely(??) decline.  (Bonds, TBills) 

China as an example carries trillions in U.S. debt. 

The international market is not only important it is crucial.