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Very few outside of America appear able to understand what motivates Americans since 9 - 11. A vast number of people confused by images of American movie and TV shows misunderstand the basic American character. Are Americans cowboys - well yes, if your understanding of "Cowboy" means someone willing to risk it all for what he believes to be right, willing to stand against any odds to uphold his vision of what is America and what it means to the World. And does anyone question that a "Cowboy" is a patriot?

There are many who insist that America should just "get over it!", that who are we to be so important that the loss of a few thousand of us should be so significant to the World.

They miss the point, we really don't care how significant the World believes our loss to be, what is critical is how important it is to us!

Many (including some Americans) would like to cast this as an internal political matter - it's those right wing Bush Republicans who are at fault and they are opposed by "good" Democrats. For your awareness, let me quote a "good" Democrat:

:I was not a George Bush fan, probably never will be. I didn't vote for him and thought he stole the election (spare me your comments; we've covered this turf already; let me just set the scene and we'll move on). I think that his tax cut is the most cynical possible act: borrowing our money from us to to bribe us to vote for him (and it's no way to fix the economy). I wish he had accomplished anything to fix health care. Half his appointments frighten me.

This is JEFF JARVIS at BUZZMACHINE and it is redundant for me to state that I do not share his political views. But I quote him as an example of someone who is at the opposite end of the spectrum (but not off the edge) but is also an American Patriot. Yes, 9 - 11 made each and every ordinary American look hard at what it meant to be an American and how they defined Patriotism. And what is his opinion of "patriotism"?

Patriotism is much bigger than politics. And the definition of patriotism is no longer in the hands of the politicians and pundits. After 9.11, it is in our hands, for we are all Americans and we are all targets on this new battlefield. We know what it means to be patriotic and it has very little to do with partisanship or politics. We know the price of patriotism.

Patriotism means defending the principles of America over politics. Patriotism means being willing to protect those principles where and when it's necessary. Patriotism means defending your children and your neighbors against those who would attack us because we are American. Patriotism means being willing to go it alone even when your former friends (read: Europeans) snipe at you."

Does this increase your understanding of what drives Americans?

Do you hold a different view of Patriotism?

Do you believe American should chart a different course?

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Patriotism and pride existed long before 9-11, but most Americans alive today never had it challenged. Although the loss can seem insignificant, the Americans got ticked off about it because it's AMERICA and that does not happen here. People shouldn't have to worry about going to work. People shouldn't have to say good bye in the morning and worry that they may not come home. It's not right to happen anywhere, but in America we were successful in keeping that status. It was challenged. These people were not killed in a military attack or an accident. It was a bunch of fruitcakes trying to campaign their political views. I am a Republican myself and don't like a lot of Democratic leaders, but there is NOTHING they could do to make me kill a bunch of innocent people to get my point across.

I would love to meet a member of Al Queda, because I would kill them with my own bare hands, regardless of the consequences.

Patriotism is well defined as the love of your country. It's like love of anything. How far are you willing to go? Those soldiers who sacrifice their lives for their country have the greatest amount of respect from me. In my eyes, there is no greater honor than to give your life for another.

I would consider it a privilege to fight for my country and would lay down my life in a moment for it.

That is how I am Patriotic.

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Well said, Nuke. The soldiers of the United States are indeed heroes to the cause of freedom. That they give up their lives to fight for the safety of their countrymen is beyond emotional comprehension. That they follow their leader, whether wrong or right, and obey for the sake of our nation is admirable. It is extremely enraging that ignorant people constantly complain of the faults and fallacies of our leader, and refuse to look the soldiers out there, getting shot, captured, and tortured for our safety. Yet because these soldiers are concerned only with the safety of the nation, they still fight on, proud to be American. This is why I also would fight to the death for the safety of this great nation.

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If one puts a language translator on these last couple of posts, I'm sure Saddam said the exact same words. Humorous that 'soldiers that follow their leader, right or wrong' could be exalted as heroes in one country, yet called Nazis or Islamic terrorists when fighting for another.

I do honour those troops who risk their lives everyday, for it is a grave choice to make.

However, Mongol Hordes and US troops still can only be heroes if they accomplish spreading death in the name of whomever sent them. Right and wrong doesn't play a big part in their daily regime. In fact, they are ordered to stop thinking the moment they are recruited. The thinking will all be done for them by 'investors'.

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Very few people in America understand why 9/11 happened.

Do you understand the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorists? (hint, NOT MUCH)

America screwed up, that is why her soldiers are dying needlessly.

"They miss the point, we really don't care how significant the World believes our loss to be, what is critical is how important it is to us!"

And that is another reasons Americans are arrogant. Shall we simply ignore 50,000+ dead in Kashmir? Or how about thousands starving to death every day? Or the comming hand of Death in Africa? 2,900 is a very insignifigently loss.

Patriotism is loving your country first.

Nationalism is loving your country second, and hating every other country first.

Patrotism is also wishing the best for your country and seeing to that. This path America is on, is the path to oblivion. I hardly call supporting that being a patriot.

"well yes, if your understanding of "Cowboy" means someone willing to risk it all for what he believes to be right, willing to stand against any odds to uphold his vision of what is America and what it means to the World. And does anyone question that a "Cowboy" is a patriot?

"

What if that cowboy sends the world to oblivion because of lack of understanding of the consequences?

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If you claim that 9-11 was America's fault, was the Holocaust the fault of the Jews? Was the Klu Klux Klan the fault of African-Americans?

If you want to blame 9-11 on America, find me the American responsible for enraging the terrorists. Maybe it was an Ex-President, or some former Senator or Congressperson. Now tell me if any of the 3,000+ people who were killed had ANYTHING whatsoever to do with enraging the terrorists.(Not that being really mad about something gives you the right to kill people)

These people didn't like things how they were. They didn't like how well we lived and how we didn't have to worry about horrible events happening daily. They did it out of jealousy. They did it because they wanted 72 virgins in Heaven.(I'd have loved to have seen their faces when they realized they were in Hell) They did it because they wanted their religion to reign supreme.

They did it like the Crusades. Now remember, when Christians did go it Israel, this was in the ballpark of 900 years ago I believe.(I never studied Western Civilizations so my numbers could be off, feel free to correct me) At that same time our idea of a restroom was the corner of our one room house and most houses were made out of mud. We have gone from swords and bows and arrows to nuclear ICBMs. We are in a different age. A CIVILIZED age. In a civilized age, you don't go after people based on what they believe in, or what they look like.

The last man to go gung ho on genocide based on religion is currently sitting in the fire next to the hijackers waiting his turn to get a pineapple shoved up his rear.(Can't remember what movie I saw that it, it was a slapstick, wanna say Little Nicky:Which other than that was a very dumb movie.)

Because I love my country does not give them the right to kill me because they love theirs. Now they have forced us to go over there and in trying to kill them before they can kill us, innocent people are dying.

As for there are people starving all over the world, it's a shame this happens. 60% of the food aid in the world comes from the US.(no offense to our Canadian pals, I dunno how much you give, I only know the US stats, sorry) What do you expect, the US to put Africa and the Middle East on welfare? My taxes pay for enough deadbeats in America, let alone OTHER countries.

There. I feel better now.

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Um, the Jews and America are very different. America imposes its view, often by force on every one else. People just hate jews, that's happened since the beginning. They've been the pariahs of society. Pariahs and arrogant force users are extremely different.

the 2,900 people that died were not all American. A good portion were foreign nationals. However, you are missing the point. The people who died are insignifigent in the grand picture. It is WHY it happened that means anything.

".(Not that being really mad about something gives you the right to kill people)"

America believes that, and it acts on it. Libya?

"They did it out of jealousy"

You really believe that? So America has NEVER, EVER, EVER done ANYTHING bad to ANYONE in the middle east? They've NEVER done ANYTHING questionable in 200 years? That's BULL. If you believe that, kill yourself, you are wasting precious resources.

"They did it because they wanted their religion to reign supreme."

Right.....these are Saudis, not insane Iranian mullahs.

"Because I love my country does not give them the right to kill me because they love theirs. Now they have forced us to go over there and in trying to kill them before they can kill us, innocent people are dying."

Um....you have no concept of History do you?

Can you even think of one non-progandist reason for why 9/11 happened.

You have proven one thing Nuclear, Americans haven't learned a darn thing since 9/11.

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There is nothing 'nova' or new about your posts - just tired old garbage.

What connection is there between 50.000 dead in Kashmir and American Patriotism? "Thousands starving every day or the comming Hand of Death in Africa" has what connection with the topic of this thread?

This is not your College English Department where nonsense deconstructionists statements are taken to be "weighty" and of significance.

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Then you are truely arrogant and ignorant Fastned.

Your inability to see beyond America's borders is only bringing more hate.

"They miss the point, we really don't care how significant the World believes our loss to be, what is critical is how important it is to us!"

"And that is another reasons Americans are arrogant. Shall we simply ignore 50,000+ dead in Kashmir? Or how about thousands starving to death every day? Or the comming hand of Death in Africa? 2,900 is a very insignifigently loss."

Now...if you don't understand that, your critical thinking skills are non-existant.

You arrogant Americans think that a American life is worth more an any other nationality. We are all human. It doesn't matter what you are. A life is equal to another life. American policy treats all non-americans as subhumans. Look at history.

You call my posts garbage because they transcend your level of thinking.

Nice insult to english departments around the world. Yes, let's insult every literature piece, every classic all because they are nonsense! Idiot typical American.

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Nova, attempting to get this 'new' idea into your head is like attempting to get a 20 lb load in a 10 lb sack!

There are dead all over the World, it is a condition of life that it ends in death. You make no claim that the deaths in Kashmir or, as you so poetically call it, "the comming hand of Death in Africa" have any connection to America or American Patriotism - so what relevance do these have to the subject of this post?

It is your contention that "You arrogant Americans think that a American life is worth more an any other nationality." and that "American policy treats all non-americans as subhumans.". What a bag of garbage!!!!!

I made no such statements and I will not let you attempt to put such words in my mouth without challenge. Your overstatements are absurd, to put it politely and if you truly believe these statements, you have a problem with reality.

What I said was: "what is critical is how important it is to us". After 9 - 11, I have a better understanding of the feelings of an Indian after an attack from Pakistan; the feelings of an Israeli after an attack from a Syrian sponsored terrorist group. After the experience of such an attack, after experiencing the renewal of faded patriotic feelings, I found myself better able to comprehend the feelings of others who had shared (if that is the term) such sneak attacks.

I may be ignorant - I admit there is much I do not know and regret that I am not better educated than I allowed myself to be - I regret all those opportunities I ignored over so many years when other matters were more important to me.

But I do not have your arrogance, I do not castigate all members of any country as believing their lives are worth more than any others or that they believe all others are sub-human. Your comments are unworthy of this Forum.

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Nova, do you really think that 9-11 was the 'world's' idea of a slap in the face to America because we were 'naughty'? It was the first attack of a war. Just like WW2, they started it, and we will end it.

If you think 3,000 lives are insignificant, then what is? Isn't one single life important? You wouldn't be saying that if you had family or friends there. You are OBVIOUSLY not American and correct me if you did have family there. From what you say, I doubt you did. You did lose anyone. You didn't say good by to a spouse or husband when they went to their normal jobs and then heard they were not coming home. This isn't a car accident or anything, this is a premeditated murder. The people killed did NOTHING wrong. Iraq had Saddam and he was very bad and did a lot of bad things. Should we kill every single Iraqi because of what a select few did? With 9-11, that's what the terrorists tried to do. They blamed the entire country(most people here haven't even been to the middle east) for what a few did and tried to kill as many as they could.

It was a senseless act and never needed to happen. If anything, it's made life for the middle east even worse.

You'd be surprised how well versed I am at history btw.

Also, Americans were not supposed to learn anything from 9-11 other than we need to watch our backs better.

I gotta ask you this, Nova: How old are you? You sound like a 12 year old who believes whatever his teachers in school say...

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Excuse me, but I have something to point out here. What does America owe the rest of the world anyway?

The USA was built by hard-working immigrants out of a wilderness. They fought for their independence and democracy and forged their nation in toil and blood. No foreign loans or investments helped build it. The land did originally come from the aboriginal Americans, but that issue is with them and I don't remember any Sioux or Iroquois terrorists attacking the WTC. America does not owe the outside world for its creation. America does not exist because of the rest of the world, it exists in spite of it, in spite of all the wars since the Revolution, through Hitler and Hirohito and all the others who would bring America down.

America has been most generous to the outside world. Whereas many nations in history have exploited and enslaved their vanquished foes, America has invested her money and resources in rebuilding them. American aid and money pours out into the rest of the world, and the insufferably sanctimonious demand that that is not enough, that even more of America's self-created wealth must flow out and that even more American sons must die to resolve the problems of the rest of the world.

Why? People such as Nova feel that success is shameful and that the USA must be punished for its success. I feel that success, gained honestly, is to be lauded and emulated. All that Nova's attitude amounts to is racism, because it's notable that despite the fact that Japan has been enormously successful since WWII, and despite the fact that Japan does owe the world significantly (both the nations that suffered under it in WWII, and the USA that rebuilt it), Nova is not calling for increased Japanese aid to the rest of the world and that Japanese servicemen be sent all over the world to police it's problems.

So there you go, Nova. I'm calling you a bigoted and unreasonable anti-American who believes in the punishment of success and the reward of failure. Do you have a response?

For my part, I'm British, and I am well aware that without the aid of the USA my country would probably have been under the Nazi jackboot in 1940. I'm also happy that Britain has been able, in some measure, to repay the favour by standing firm with America against their common foes as we have done throughout the 20th Century. I feel that I can stand tall and be proud of my country, and that we stand beside our allies and fight the good fight. I don't have to be ashamed that my country has no morals, can't tell good from bad and is too cowardly to get involved in anything, even though it will inevitably affect it for good or ill.

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Fastned, what do you not understand about the connection of American patriotism in its regard to American arrogance?

Americans were nationanlistic more than Patriotist after 9/11. You are confusing the two.

It is your contention that "You arrogant Americans think that a American life is worth more an any other nationality." and that "American policy treats all non-americans as subhumans.". What a bag of garbage!!!!!

it's garbage because it's true? When millions die all over the world to horrible causes, America does NOTHING. it gives a rip. Americans' couldn't care less of thousands of people are dying to conflict, disease, diasters. However, should a meager 2,600 americans die, America more or less demands everyone do something about it. The US bribes, strong arms, and heavy handily does whatever is necessary to get people to avenge american lives, all while ignoring the thousands that have died without US help. Look at Liberia. Rwanda. Kasmir. The entire African contenient.

Now please prove to me that America does not think that an American life is worth more than any other. If that was true, foreign policy would be vastly different then it is today.

At least you can recognize you are ignorant on somethings. I am too. I have no idea how theortical quantam physics work. Or how to apply superstrings on a large scale. Or why a quantam singularity reaction produces no net molecuarly byproduct.

Please study the general history of America. And the history of major losses of life. Notice the two rarely come into contact. Unless there is a handsome profit to be made, usually at the cost of lives to the non-americans.

Nova, do you really think that 9-11 was the 'world's' idea of a slap in the face to America because we were 'naughty'? It was the first attack of a war. Just like WW2, they started it, and we will end it.

So, America has NEVER, EVER, EVER done ANYTHING to the middle east to warrant ANY hate? Please answer that question. (hint, this is how you win a debate, give them two choices, one where they must agree with you, and thus disagree with their argument, or show that they are ignorant and stupid and know nothing about their subject)

You are OBVIOUSLY not American and correct me if you did have family there.

I was born in America. I go to a private high school that is in the top 5 in k-12 schools in the nation. The teacher that teach at my school have won awards that few COLLEGES can say their staff has. www.punahou.edu

I know of a few people that went to my school that were killed in the attack.

Have you ever thought that your loss is clouding your judgement?

I gotta ask you this, Nova: How old are you? You sound like a 12 year old who believes whatever his teachers in school say

17, and I've read the book, "the lies my teachers told me."

Need i say more? You sound like you believe everything that comes out of the Bush propaganda machine.

Hugo: American industrial might was built on the backs of slaves. Check out the slave reparation cases.

No foreign loans or investments helped build it

France anyone? Na, let's forget ALL about them because they didn't support this war. France didn't help the colonies during the revolution war. France never gave ANY support. Their fleet didn't stop the strongest navy in the world. Their munitions or money didn't help the colonies at all. Let's simply forgot that shall we?

America has been most generous to the outside world.

Read "the best democracy money can buy." Then you see what has been hidden for years. As well as "lies my teachers told me." American companies and the government have reamed country after country all in pursuit of the bottom line.

I feel that success, gained honestly, is to be lauded and emulated.

Slavery is honest way of succeeding?

Nova is not calling for increased Japanese aid to the rest of the world and that Japanese servicemen be sent all over the world to police it's problems.

Japan is/was footing the bill for most of the peacekeeping and conficts America does. Also that non-agression part in the consitution kinda prohibits doesn't it? America gives less than 1% of it's GDP away as foreign aid. Northern Europe gives awar betwen 20-35% and no one hates them, yet they are as industrialized as the US.

So there you go, Nova. I'm calling you a bigoted and unreasonable anti-American who believes in the punishment of success and the reward of failure. Do you have a response?

Then I am calling you one ignorant to the past of America. You can call me all the names you want, but it is solely up to you to find about what America has done to the world.

That is, if you think slavery is proper. Apparently, many pro-American people think that America is noble. In a recent poll on "what the nation thinks" (a uk site that is)68% thought America and noble should never be in the same sentence. That is out of 150+ people. Out of a another poll whether Americans are informed or not, 98% thought Americans don't catch up with ANYTHING. That's over 300 pollers. I am inclined to believe. Few people at my school (which sends 50-70 kids a year to IVYies or close schools like Cornell, out of a class of 400) read the newspaper, online news, or any other source of relaible media.

For my part, I'm British, and I am well aware that without the aid of the USA my country would probably have been under the Nazi jackboot in 1940

Hardly. Britain was too weak to win, but too strong to lose. The brits could not fall under the evil of Hitler, They were too strong. For that I give them endless props.

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I love Ivy League snots. They are wrong on every major issue. Too busy rewording their words to Orwellian levels to actually see reality.

These are the geniuses who love the UN, bow before Kyoto, thought that Russian Communism was a better society, informed us that Mao who murdered 40 million people was a great agrarian reformer, and apologise for socialism in Africa and Latin America and now assure us that Islam is a great and peacerful religion and that 9-11 is our fault.

I am sitting 10 blocks from Ground Zero. It is 9-11-03. There is not a hope in hell that the West is culpable for the failure of other societies.

The fact that the ninnies in other countries can't defend themselves does not indict the proper strategy of taking the offensive.

The terrorists will be dismantled and beaten - slowly but it will happen.

The question for Chevy Nova and like little minds, is --- what are you doing to secure freedom ?

Nothing that is the answer, and for that you are a revisionist, snivelling coward. You don't even have the decency man to support countries that are defending freedom.

Disgusting.

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Well said, Hugo! Freedom will never vanish so long as there are British Patriots who stand with us.

"From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remember'd;

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;

For he to-day that sheds his blood with me

Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition:

And gentlemen in England now a-bed

Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,

And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks

That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

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Nova, perhaps you should consider this:

"There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better for worse as his portion . . . It is the harder because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude." R.W. Emerson

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Nova,

You mention slavery, but not the Civil War or the Emancipation Proclamation. You mention American industrial might, but you seem to think the USA was born a massive industrial power and have no grasp of the timeline. You claim that Britain could have stood against Germany indefinitely, but you plainly haven't heard of the lend-lease scheme or the Battle of the Atlantic. You think that America was built by France, but you greatly over-estimate the value of her contribution (Britain could not win the Revolution with or without France against her). You also seem to have forgotten who liberated the French from Germany... twice.

There's not much point in us disussing this further while you refuse to acquaint yourself with the facts. It's also obvious that you just don't believe in fighting for anything, or nobility in any form. I will have you know that my family has a long history of military service, and many of my ancestors fought and died alongside Americans to free the world from tyranny. My great-uncle was awarded the George Cross for gallantry in Normandy. My grandfather watched many of his comrades-in-arms mown down at Dunkirk, dying in the vain hope of saving France from the Wehrmacht, and the SS and the Gestapo that followed them. My grandmother was a nurse and was burnt badly trying to save patients from her hospital after the Luftwaffe bombed it.

I know my heritage, and I know my predecessors and fellow countrymen have fought evil and terror and often died fighting them. Many Canadians also fought this battle, but it seems that now many Canadians have forgotten what evil and terror look like and are determined that those lives shall have been spent in vain. I know that America is on the side of right, of freedom and justice, and that her enemy is evil and terrible. I hope that, again, America and her allies can prevail, because if they don't, the future of humanity will be truly horrible.

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Nova, I repeat Hugo's comments on what America owes the rest of the world?

We've helped out in several places where it was not necessary. The US military is paid for by US tax dollars and with American lives(few exceptions as I understand even foreigners living here can join also). I am not paying taxes nor watching friends and family go off to fight for other countries that would give us squat in return.

When a natural disaster like a tornado or a flood happens, America takes care of their own. When something happens in another country, Red Cross shows up with blood etc. etc. etc. We owe nothing to anyone. We're the most generous nation on earth, what do u want us to do, live in clay huts and send all our money and success to others?

Once you graduate from high school and go out into the real world, you'll realize how much it stinks to work hard and get a large protion of your paycheck sent to taxes. It'll then enrage you more to see that the US is giving Egypt 4 billion dollars for this and North Korea a billion dollars for that.

I don't know why cause I'm not a politician. Wait till you're in the real world before you take too many attacks on how the government works. We're not trying to insult your school. I'm certain it's a good institution....but judging by the fact you attend private school, it's probably paid for by your parents. There is no shame in this as it's nice when your parents can help you get on your feet for the real world.

America can not be expected to give all it has for someone else. It's stinky things happen overseas like that, but we need to take care of our own first, then help others.

For the US military, a US life IS more important than anothers as is for a Canadian, a Canadian Life is more important to their military. I don't expect Canada to sacrifice the good of their own for me as I don't live there, why should other countries expect it of America.(I'm not saying Canada does that as I do not recall any instance where they did.)

As for American Patriotism: We're not going to sit back while we are attacked. We've gone two years without another serious attack against US soil....this is very good and we hope to continue our winning streak. What we have to do is make the entire world safe, not just for America but for everyone from Singapore to New York City to London to Baghdad.

Hugo: Was your great-uncle at D-Day? Most of my family was in the pacific theatre but I had an uncle who flew out of England on a B-24 over France and Germany.

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My great-uncle was indeed at D-Day, in the Royal Armoured Corps. He got the George Cross because his tank was hit by a German artillery round and disabled, and his commander wounded. He got the rest of the crew to safety and then returned alone after dark, repaired the tank and drove it back, along with his commander, who was still alive.

He became a firefighter after the war and was actually awarded the George Cross a second time (it's the highest award a British civilian can receive) for rescuing several people from the basement of a collapsed and burning building.

My grandfather who was at Dunkirk was relocated to Burma afterward to fight the Japanese. He was not decorated as highly, but he finished the war with the rank of Major and a letter from the Queen granting him that title for use in his civilian life. He was recently incensed because they referred to him as "Mr." on his disabled parking permit instead of "Mjr". :)

They were exceptions, being in the Army. The men of family have usually served in the Royal Navy.

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HUGO

Excuse me, but I have something to point out here. What does America owe the rest of the world anyway?

uh well lets see...

1973 america assisted to overthrow a democratically elected gov and replaced it with a man who killed tens of thousands of people

1953 overthrow irans gov

80s sent $3 Billion to osama and his crew, who later raped afganistan and then came home to roost on 9/1

80s supported saddam against iran, and iran against saddam, all the while he was building and using the dreaded/elusive WMDs.

and so on and so on...there are too many coups to list in teh last 50 yeras.

so considering the US helped corrupt governments to kills perhaps 100,000 people, they owe the world alot i would suspect, at least in terms of the human suffering they caused and benefited from.

The USA was built by hard-working immigrants out of a wilderness. They fought for their independence and democracy and forged their nation in toil and blood

uh...does slavery or Native Americans fit in there anywhere? my god man, 70% of Americans think Saddam was likely involved in 9/11. there are certain things that are true nad some that are not. since the begining of time civilizations struggled, america was no different. the rest of the world just doesnt wave a flag for every little thing.

SirRiff

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I love Ivy League snots. They are wrong on every major issue. Too busy rewording their words to Orwellian levels to actually see reality.

Is that because they rejected your application? That's one of the most sweeping generalizations anyone has ever made in recorded history.

The question for Chevy Nova and like little minds, is --- what are you doing to secure freedom ?

By making sure people like you don't contiune on the path to oblivion. Freedom but with no morals. Freedom but only with oblivion. [sarcasm]Sounds like great concepts to me.[/sarcasm]

I hardly think that securing freedom means creating more terrorists.

Nothing that is the answer, and for that you are a revisionist, snivelling coward. You don't even have the decency man to support countries that are defending freedom.

So, we're supporting freedom by creating thousands of new terrorists. We're supporting freedom by destabilizing regions across the world? We're supporting freedom by allowing extremists access to a unstable country? We're supporting freedom by giving everyone the cold shoulder? We're supporting freedom by going down the path to oblivion? That doesn't sound like any sort of freedom America believed before.

FastNed: Practice what you preach. That quote applies to you as well.

You mention slavery, but not the Civil War or the Emancipation Proclamation

Do you understand the beginning of how the industrial boom started in America? You, my dear ignorant Brit friend, need to read American history.

You claim that Britain could have stood against Germany indefinitely

Apparently many people throughout the latter half of the 20th century thought so. I'm simply quoting them. (including many leaders of the UK)

You think that America was built by France, but you greatly over-estimate the value of her contribution (Britain could not win the Revolution with or without France against her)

Do you understand that during the war 70% (and at times 100%) of the munitions used by the colonials were provided by the French? Much of the clothing, by the French. Almost all of the navy, FRENCH. Do you know that Washington's troops were trained by a FRENCHMEN? Let's simply forget ALL of that! Britain could have won a prolonged war if Europe wasn't calling. Colonials could only stand so long. But the Atalantic ocean played a big part. My question to you is, how do you fight with no ammo?

We owe nothing to anyone. We're the most generous nation on earth

Right....let's forget the french again. most generous? Like less than 1% of GDP to aid? Or how about because we took their money?

It'll then enrage you more to see that the US is giving Egypt 4 billion dollars for this and North Korea a billion dollars for that.

Um, that's a bribe to Egypt to stop fighting with Isreal.

As for American Patriotism: We're not going to sit back while we are attacked. We've gone two years without another serious attack against US soil....this is very good and we hope to continue our winning streak. What we have to do is make the entire world safe, not just for America but for everyone from Singapore to New York City to London to Baghdad.

We could go forever without a attack if we stopped trampling over people and cultures with no regard for them. haven't thought about that have you?

Have you ever thought about WHY they hate us? jealousy is a 5th grade answer.

the US has installed more dictators than any other country in history. The US has helped kill more people (except many Russia) in purusit of the bottom line more than any other country.

Slavery was the back of the US industrial start. They produced the agricultural material for the North to jumpstart its industrial might. They also provided a constant stream of materials to prop the Industrial north up during the mutliple crashes. Without the slaves, the US would have taken 50-90 years longer to get to the stage it is at. haven't ANY of you taken American history? (btw, out of a class of 400, 200 take AP US, roughly 95% get 5s or 4s. Now WHAT DOES THAT SAY?)

Btw, before you start on religion and Islam bashing, how did Christanity produce HITLER?

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