Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 hour ago, User said: No, not biased... an outright conspiracy peddling Russian disinformation source. Yes, that is exactly what it is. To the larger point, extensive investigations and sourcing was already done on this to point to it being a Russian anti-aircraft missile fired by the Russian-backed separatists. To the even larger point... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/far-right-extremists-in-ukraine-brag-they-have-received-training-from-the-canadian-forces-report Do you know what you know? You know what Zelinsky let's you know, and you know what you want. That's all you know about this. Soon Trump and Putin will dictate the terms for the end of this war and there will be nothing Zelinsky nor NATO can do about it. I hope Zelinsky is packing... 2 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 17 Author Report Posted February 17 (edited) On 2/12/2025 at 11:33 AM, impartialobserver said: while not directly related, I have read numerous times that Russia has been losing population. Very low birth rates and now the Ukraine conflict have started to deplete them. Will be interesting to see what they do when the Eastern half of the nation is empty. I don't think Russia's population decline will not have much of an effect on the war in Ukraine, which I suspect may be over this year. Russia's population decline is something that's more of a long term issue. From Wikipedia: ** The UN is projecting that the decline that started in 2021 will continue, and if current demographic conditions persist, Russia's population will be 120 million in 50 years, a decline of about 17%.[33][32] In January 2024, the Russian statistics agency Rosstat predicted that Russia's population could drop to 130 million by 2046.[34] ** Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia Edited February 17 by Scott75 Quote
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 46 minutes ago, Nationalist said: To the even larger point... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/far-right-extremists-in-ukraine-brag-they-have-received-training-from-the-canadian-forces-report Do you know what you know? You know what Zelinsky let's you know, and you know what you want. That's all you know about this. Soon Trump and Putin will dictate the terms for the end of this war and there will be nothing Zelinsky nor NATO can do about it. I hope Zelinsky is packing... Oh please... now I am getting lectured by the dude who mindlessly parrots Russian propaganda about what I do and do not know and it is only because Zelinsky lets me. ROFL Quote
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, User said: Oh please... now I am getting lectured by the dude who mindlessly parrots Russian propaganda about what I do and do not know and it is only because Zelinsky lets me. ROFL Where do you think the reporting you see comes from? 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 17 Author Report Posted February 17 (edited) On 2/12/2025 at 11:38 AM, User said: On 2/12/2025 at 11:26 AM, WestCanMan said: FWIW I have some friends who are Bulgarian and Polish, who still have friends and family there so they go back frequently, and for them it's just understood that the Donbas was being shelled before Russia got involved at all. Why was the shelling occurring? Were there already attacks occurring against the local gov'ts before that? What was the date and time of this shelling occurring they are claiming was happening before Russia got involved? What do you claim is the date and time Russia got involved? What is the shelling that occurred you are talking about? What are the attacks against the local government you are referring to that happened before Russia got involved? From former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud's article on the subject: ** On February 17 [2022], President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention. [snip] In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers from the Donbass being run over. If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21. That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them. The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance. In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge. ** Source: Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative | Scheerpost Edited February 17 by Scott75 1 Quote
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Where do you think the reporting you see comes from? It was an International Safety team that investigated this. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: From what I've seen, the evidence is very strong that Malaysian Airlines 17 was actually shot down by the Ukrainian government. A good article on that: Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air Missile | Global Research No offence, I just don't believe anything that anyone in any gov't or gov't-controlled organization says about things: of that magnitude that happen outside of large-scale scrutiny that are so easy to lie about and cover up. Your article could be 100% correct, the FAA could be 100% correct, the Russians could be 100% correct, the US gov't could be 100% correct, but at the end of the day, all of them will also lie about it 100% if they don't like the facts, so it's 100% certain that someone's lying about it, and we, the peons, will never know. And in a way, it is their job to lie, because both sides are always lying and being underhanded, just like every country and political/religious organization on earth going back thousands of years. TBH, I don't even care who shot that plane down if it was just a fog-of-war incident. Sh1t happens. There are rookies with their finger on the trigger of something, somewhere, every day. If it had something to do with the passengers on board, that will forever remain a conspiracy theory, so there's no sense in really talking about it. What I will say for certain is that the crap below means absolutely nothing to me: On 17 July, an Associated Press journalist saw a Buk launcher in Snizhne, in Donetsk Oblast, 16 kilometres (10 mi) southeast of the crash site. The reporter also saw seven separatist tanks near the town.[61] Associated Press journalists reported that the Buk M-1 was operated by a man "with unfamiliar fatigues and a distinctive Russian accent" escorted by two civilian vehicles.[62] The battle around Savur-Mohyla has been suggested as the possible context in which the missile that brought down MH17 was fired, as separatists deployed increasingly sophisticated anti-aircraft weaponry in this battle, and had brought down several Ukrainian jets in July.[63] "Associated Press" means "TNI acolytes" and I trust them as much as I trust a boa constrictor in a baby's bathtub. All I know for sure is that sometimes the propagandists slip up, and you can catch them lying red-handed, and their "This is all Russia's fault" thing is an example. It's so full of ignorance, bullet-holes and stupidity that it's infuriating. NATO is putting the squeeze on Russia, we are putting a gun to their heads, and there's no doubt about that. They also didn't build their own n-gas pipeline, using tens or hundreds of billions of dollars, and then blow it up themselves. The propaganda is so dumb it's insulting. Only true leftard cultists can even pretend to believe it all. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 11 minutes ago, User said: It was an International Safety team that investigated this. Uh huh... Hey tell me...how many Ukrainians have died I battle? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: I have to chuckle at this- the west has been pushing this narrative that sanctions have brought Russia "to the brink" for 11 years now :-p. From an American POV they did. "Middle-class Russians can't get Gucci or Prada, so Russia is on its knees!!!" But Russians are nothing like Americans. They don't care about material possessions to the same extent that Americans do. 1 Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: Uh huh... Hey tell me...how many Ukrainians have died I battle? So, you can't win the argument and admit you were wrong regarding this flight... time to change the subject! Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: For sure, but in this case, I think it's pretty clear that most of the killing was done by these mercenary snipers and to this day, few realize that it wasn't Yanukovych's government that was behind it. They will believe what they want to believe, regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary, or how stupid the propaganda is that they're supposed to believe. "The Russians blew up their own pipeline!" - CNN "The Russians blew up their own pipeline! We just saw it on the news!" - leftard cultists Honestly, people are so f'ing dumb here now that they qualify as zombies: they're infected with CoNNvid-50. (-50 refers to their IQs) Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 27 minutes ago, User said: So, you can't win the argument and admit you were wrong regarding this flight... time to change the subject! Not at all. Come on...tell me how many Ukrainians have died in this battle. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Not at all. Come on...tell me how many Ukrainians have died in this battle. LOL, you are still changing the subject. Also, whatever stupid angle you are playing with this dumb question, just get to the point. I don't play dumb games. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: To the even larger point... https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/far-right-extremists-in-ukraine-brag-they-have-received-training-from-the-canadian-forces-report Do you know what you know? You know what Zelinsky let's you know, and you know what you want. That's all you know about this. Soon Trump and Putin will dictate the terms for the end of this war and there will be nothing Zelinsky nor NATO can do about it. I hope Zelinsky is packing... Leftists simply can't acknowledge the existence of Nazis on their own payroll. When Jon Stewart pins a medal on a Nazi on behalf of the Pentagon, they can't see that with their own eyes, or hear about it with their own ears. It simply "didn't happen" if it wasn't on CBC or the Cultist Narrative Network, and those guys can sit on the truth forever. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 30 minutes ago, User said: LOL, you are still changing the subject. Also, whatever stupid angle you are playing with this dumb question, just get to the point. I don't play dumb games. You like to belittle alternate news sources whenever they oppose your approved narrative. As if your news sources are for some reason, more accurate. They are not. Now...the number of Ukranians dead? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You like to belittle alternate news sources whenever they oppose your approved narrative. As if your news sources are for some reason, more accurate. They are not. Now...the number of Ukranians dead? No, I like to belittle sources that are little more than proven conspiracy theory peddling sites and Russian disinformation sites. To the point here, International Investigation teams investigated this flight being shot down, and their studies and information are publically available. But sure, lets believe some disinformation site claiming it was really Ukraining jet fighters that shot it down. Once again, if you have a point to make, make it. Not playing your stupid game. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You like to belittle alternate news sources whenever they oppose your approved narrative. As if your news sources are for some reason, more accurate. They are not. Now...the number of Ukranians dead? Or even just the number of people dead. And for what? So that we could expand NATO? For greater access to (aka "control over") Ukrainian minerals, agriculture, resources...? At the end of the day, America will have secured access to vital ________, and tens of thousands of the people who were unfortunate enough to live amidst/on top of that shit are dead. Thank you Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Edited February 17 by WestCanMan 1 Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 Just now, WestCanMan said: Or even just the number of people dead. And for what? So that we could expand NATO? Ask Putin, he is the one that started this war. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 16 minutes ago, User said: No, I like to belittle sources that are little more than proven conspiracy theory peddling sites and Russian disinformation sites. To the point here, International Investigation teams investigated this flight being shot down, and their studies and information are publically available. But sure, lets believe some disinformation site claiming it was really Ukraining jet fighters that shot it down. Once again, if you have a point to make, make it. Not playing your stupid game. The point...my friend...is that your trust is misplaced...blinded...odd for you...when it comes to this Ukraine bullshit. It wouldn't surprise me to find out the ukes shot it down at the behest of the Russians. Which brings up another "point". You need to try to not ascribe your morality and sense of "normal", on people you know little to nothing about. That only causes chaos... Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: The point...my friend...is that your trust is misplaced...blinded...odd for you...when it comes to this Ukraine bullshit. It is not Ukraine bullshit that some id1ots misused Russian-supplied anti-aircraft missiles and shot down an airliner filled with innocent people. 5 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You need to try to not ascribe your morality and sense of "normal", on people you know little to nothing about. Example for what you are talking about? Quote
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 hour ago, User said: It is not Ukraine bullshit that some id1ots misused Russian-supplied anti-aircraft missiles and shot down an airliner filled with innocent people. Example for what you are talking about? Your value on life...for one. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 hour ago, User said: Ask Putin, he is the one that started this war. FYI what starts wars isn't always visible to the naked eye, just like "what starts fights". For example, just because dude 1 threw the first punch at dude 2, that doesn't mean that dude 1 started the fight. And if dude 1 didn't start the fight, that doesn't even mean that dude 2 started the fight. Maybe dude 1's wife/GF lied and said that dude 2 grabbed her vagina and then shoved her against the wall, when he actually did not do any of that. In this instance, there are two competing reasons for the start of this war being floated about: Putin started it because he wants to take over all of eastern Europe This is a NATO proxy war, and Russia was put in a position where they had no choice but fight In the first instance, we can only guess that Putin is a mad tyrant who just wanted a war of conquest. No one here has a microchip in his brain. In the second, we KNOW that 1) NATO was muscling in on Russia, 2) Ukraine was vying for a spot in NATO, 3) the American gov't incited riots in Ukraine to oust the old president and then 4) controlled the last election to install the new president, 5) the US gov't unilaterally fired the old top prosecutor there and installed the new one, 6) the US and Ukraine were conducting joint research on biological weapons in Ukraine, etc, etc, etc. I personally choose to give more credence to the plethora of things that we know than to all the things that CNN says. You like to go with CNN's opinion, and that's fine for you. You're allowed to do that. Cheerio. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
User Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 19 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Your value on life...for one. If you are trying to be vague without offering anything of substance to respond to here... it is working. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, User said: If you are trying to be vague without offering anything of substance to respond to here... it is working. Not vague at all. What is Russia's historic tactic? Attrition. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
WestCanMan Posted February 17 Report Posted February 17 1 hour ago, User said: No, I like to belittle sources that are little more than proven conspiracy theory peddling sites and Russian disinformation sites. I'd contend that every media outlet in every country lies to whatever extent they can, or feels like they should, in order to aid their side's war effort. If your false words can save lives or help win a war, it seems reasonable, right? We're here, mostly in the dark, trying to glean what truths we can from a constant barrage of conflicting disinformation coming at us from every side. That's why I never listen to reports about "Who's winning the battle", I just look at the updated maps and say to myself "These guys must have won that battle, because the front has now moved 3 miles into the other guys' territory." It's why I look at all of the things that we know to be true and go from there, instead of starting from a point of "CNN said something". Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
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