When Government buys insurance for anything it is stupid.

[iamcanadian2]

When Government buys insurance for anything it is stupid. The public is the biggest block available to spread risks of loss.

So we are all paying taxes and if there is a loss we all just pay the loss from a part of the taxes we have paid.

Government buying insurance is just like giving money away to a corporation for no reason because they are moving risk of a loss to a smaller pool of payers (who are the group of insured individuals under that company) A loss by government only serves to give the excuse to raise the policies of those few that are insured and to let them make more money than would otherwise if they had less so called losses.

Insurance premiums are based on the loss profile plus a hefty mark-up so that the insuarnce company does not loose money in the long run. The Government should do its part to help reduce insurance premiums by NOT taking insurance for any of its activities.

[geoffrey]

Using your logic, Wal-Mart would be stupid to have insurance as they could spread the cost over their hundreds of millions of customers instead of the insurance company spreading the loss over the few "subscribers" they have.

So what gives? Why would Wal-Mart do it? They are soley concerned about profit, yet still commit to this horrible concept in your eyes.

Hmm, I wonder...

[August1991]

When Government buys insurance for anything it is stupid. The public is the biggest block available to spread risks of loss.

To my knowledge, the federal government does not have any insurance for loss of any of its assets, nor for any potential liability.

Municipal governments and the smaller provincial governments OTOH may have insurance.

Is this a major issue?

[iamcanadian2]

When Government buys insurance for anything it is stupid. The public is the biggest block available to spread risks of loss.

To my knowledge, the federal government does not have any insurance for loss of any of its assets, nor for any potential liability.

Municipal governments and the smaller provincial governments OTOH may have insurance.

Is this a major issue?

Yes it is a very major issue few people are aware of.

In the event of Insurance disasters you can bet the Insurance Company will get bailed out by the government at the end.

The Insurance company does not loose money AFTER calculating the costs of claims. Government is simply feeding extra profit money to the insurance business and paying for all the losses one way or another regardless.

Cutout the middleman and pay the loss when they occur and raise our taxes if a Tsunami hits the Pacific Coast not pay for premiums for 5o years taxing the people to death for the time that will never come that the loss will be greater than all the premiums pay up front.

Government buying insurance is STUPID and quasi-criminal by pilferinig from the taxpayers hard work simply to make insurance companies richer and our Bureaucrats able to spend more money on their business friends.

Government does NOT need any form of insurance whatsoever. It does not NEED to attempt to make off without consequence or responsibility and accountability for its own actions or the actions of its directors and employees.

That priviledge can only properly apply to private individuals and private enterprises that have a free will. It cannot properly extend to the public service because the public sector belongs to everyone and must not have its own free will or even any sense of self.

The people in government must remain open to consequences and accountability and responsibility regardless what it costs the government as a whole.

PAYING FOR INSURANCE TO COVER THE ARSES OF BUREAUCRATS WHO ARE INCOMPETTENT OR ABUSIVE WITH THE TAX PAYERS MONEY IS NOT A PROPER USE OF THE TAXPAYERS MONEY

[Nocrap]

When Government buys insurance for anything it is stupid. The public is the biggest block available to spread risks of loss.

To my knowledge, the federal government does not have any insurance for loss of any of its assets, nor for any potential liability.

Municipal governments and the smaller provincial governments OTOH may have insurance.

Is this a major issue?

Yes it is a very major issue few people are aware of.

In the event of Insurance disasters you can bet the Insurance Company will get bailed out by the government at the end.

The Insurance company does not loose money AFTER calculating the costs of claims. Government is simply feeding extra profit money to the insurance business and paying for all the losses one way or another regardless.

Cutout the middleman and pay the loss when they occur and raise our taxes if a Tsunami hits the Pacific Coast not pay for premiums for 5o years taxing the people to death for the time that will never come that the loss will be greater than all the premiums pay up front.

Government buying insurance is STUPID and quasi-criminal by pilferinig from the taxpayers hard work simply to make insurance companies richer and our Bureaucrats able to spend more money on their business friends.

Government does NOT need any form of insurance whatsoever. It does not NEED to attempt to make off without consequence or responsibility and accountability for its own actions or the actions of its directors and employees.

That priviledge can only properly apply to private individuals and private enterprises that have a free will. It cannot properly extend to the public service because the public sector belongs to everyone and must not have its own free will or even any sense of self.

The people in government must remain open to consequences and accountability and responsibility regardless what it costs the government as a whole.

PAYING FOR INSURANCE TO COVER THE ARSES OF BUREAUCRATS WHO ARE INCOMPETTENT OR ABUSIVE WITH THE TAX PAYERS MONEY IS NOT A PROPER USE OF THE TAXPAYERS MONEY

Do you have any specific examples? It would seem prudent to me that our government would purchase insurance if it meant protecting taxpayers from unforseen disasters. I'm sure all their vehicles are insured and federally owned buildings, furniture, etc.

[August1991]

It would seem prudent to me that our government would purchase insurance if it meant protecting taxpayers from unforseen disasters. I'm sure all their vehicles are insured and federally owned buildings, furniture, etc.

That's not true. The federal government does not have insurance because it self-insures and assumes the risk itself.

iamcanadian2 is attempting to make an issue out of something that is not an issue.

[Nocrap]

It would seem prudent to me that our government would purchase insurance if it meant protecting taxpayers from unforseen disasters. I'm sure all their vehicles are insured and federally owned buildings, furniture, etc.

That's not true. The federal government does not have insurance because it self-insures and assumes the risk itself.

iamcanadian2 is attempting to make an issue out of something that is not an issue.

To be honest, I've never heard this complaint before, but thanks August for clearing that up. I have no idea what the poster was referring to, but I guess it's a non-issue.

[iamcanadian2]

Has anyone here ever heard of the Guarantee Company of North America?

They are the main Insurers of Senior Government Directors, Commissioners, CAO's etc.. They get paid HUGE premiums every year from the Taxpayer's to cover against FRAUD and OTHER CORRUPTION related activities Government Directors are capable of.

If any of our senior public officials are suspected of pilfereing from the public purse, an Insurance Claim can be made under their policies and the insurance policy would pay the government back all the money that was stolen by the government administrators.

This serves as a means of stopping the government from going after the public officials personally to let them get away with stealing our money - since this insurance company would pay it back if a claim is ever made.

Typically these policies cover many tens of millions of dollars per person for when money goes missing at the hands of directing government employees and it does not require criminal convictions in order to get the lost or missing money paid.

Notwithstanding that they receive Hundreds of Millions of dollars in Director Insurance Type Premiums from our Tax Dollars, they have never paid out on a single claim according to any publicly available records; making this Fidelity Insurance product a most lucrative business of selling paper to the publlic that never causes them any claims.

These most lucrative of insurance policies are taken out and paid for without public tenders and they are basically the main procurers of these types of policies to our Governments across Canada, yet never have any losses that can be found in public records anywhere. Our governments refuse to make any claims under the policies that the taxpayers have been paying towards for years.

You can be assured that IF any public official is ever formally accussed of pilfering from the public the Guaranty Company of North America will step in with a Legal Dream Team and hundred million dollar budgets to defend them at all costs to avoid paying on these types of Fidelity policies.

You want accountability and responsibility in government, you need to eliminate the cloaks and daggers they have put in place to prevent personal responsibility and accountability on the people responsible.

[Nocrap]

Has anyone here ever heard of the Guarantee Company of North America?

They are the main Insurers of Senior Government Directors, Commissioners, CAO's etc.. They get paid HUGE premiums every year from the Taxpayer's to cover against FRAUD and OTHER CORRUPTION related activities Government Directors are capable of.

If any of our senior public officials are suspected of pilfereing from the public purse, an Insurance Claim can be made under their policies and the insurance policy would pay the government back all the money that was stolen by the government administrators.

This serves as a means of stopping the government from going after the public officials personally to let them get away with stealing our money - since this insurance company would pay it back if a claim is ever made.

Typically these policies cover many tens of millions of dollars per person for when money goes missing at the hands of directing government employees and it does not require criminal convictions in order to get the lost or missing money paid.

Notwithstanding that they receive Hundreds of Millions of dollars in Director Insurance Type Premiums from our Tax Dollars, they have never paid out on a single claim according to any publicly available records; making this Fidelity Insurance product a most lucrative business of selling paper to the publlic that never causes them any claims.

These most lucrative of insurance policies are taken out and paid for without public tenders and they are basically the main procurers of these types of policies to our Governments across Canada, yet never have any losses that can be found in public records anywhere. Our governments refuse to make any claims under the policies that the taxpayers have been paying towards for years.

You can be assured that IF any public official is ever formally accussed of pilfering from the public the Guaranty Company of North America will step in with a Legal Dream Team and hundred million dollar budgets to defend them at all costs to avoid paying on these types of Fidelity policies.

You want accountability and responsibility in government, you need to eliminate the cloaks and daggers they have put in place to prevent personal responsibility and accountability on the people responsible.

Are you talking about surety bonds?

I did find their website

Guaranty Company of North America

However, are you saying that taxpayers are buying these bonds but are unable to collect? Do you have proof?

Surety bonds on government contracts I believe are paid for by the person placing the bid and there are many companies that the government accepts as agents:

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/Pubs_pol/dcgpubs/...tingpol_l_e.asp" target="_blank">List of Accepted Bonding Companies

We no doubt pay for the bonds on government employees. Are we being scammed there?

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but would just like a little more information. Perhaps a link?

[Leafless]

Buisness Development Bank of Canada provides loans that supports programs listed below and lenders are required to take security for the amount financed. This could be where surety insurance play a part with government.

-Canada Small Buisness Financing Program

-Canarie

-Canmet Energy Technology Centre

- Export Development Corporation

- HRDC Self Employment Assistance Program

- Industrial Research Assistance Program

- Scientific Research Assistance program

- Technology Partnerships Canada

[iamcanadian2]

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/Pubs_pol/dcgpubs/...tingpol_l_e.asp]List of Accepted Bonding Companies[/url]

We no doubt pay for the bonds on government employees. Are we being scammed there?

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but would just like a little more information. Perhaps a link?

There is a long list BUT

90% of the policies are with the big three:

1) The Guarantee Company of North America (The Largest in Canada with the lions share fo the Premiums) (it's a Private French Canadian Company from Montreal)

2) St. Paul (Large and Multi-national)

3) Aviva (Large and Mutli-national

The rest on the list are either no longer in business, have gotten out of Government products in Canada, or don't amount to a hill of beans worth of taking from the taxpayers purse.

Contrary to your belief, Surety Bonds are paid for by the Government on their public contracts. Between the premium amount which is between 1% and 2% of contract prices, prices are 50% higher from bonded contractors since only friends of Government are able to get bonded. If they give bonds to people the government does not like, the government takes them off the list of accepted bonding companies to control public tenders and public spending indirectly this way.

[August1991]

iamcanadian, the link above concerns the performance bond required of private business dealing with the federal government. I can understand the logic here. The federal government is telling potential suppliers that they must meet minimum reliability standards and getting bonded provides evidence of that.

I can also understand why municipal governments or small provincial governments may want to have liability insurance, including for officer behaviour, or insurance for asset loss - the risk for small jurisdictions is too great.

Once again, iamcanadian, what is your point? You seem to think that there is something criminal involved here. If a civil servant steals money, or if a private firm illegally receives money, it's still a criminal offense. Paul Coffin was just sentenced to prison.

I know that governments spend money in wild and seemingly crazy ways. I just don't think insurance schemes are the most flagrant abuse. The federal government generally does not buy insurance so you seem to be barking up the wrong tree.

[iamcanadian2]

This is the Provincial Section and not the Federal Government forum.

Municipalities and Regions are just extensions of the Provincial Government. They are not true governments in and of themselves.

The same reasons that the Federal Government does not obtain Insurance should apply equally to the Province and its subsidiary governments in municipal and region and boards.

When government administrators do something wrong they should pay for it including being sued personally to get the money back or make them spend everything they own defending themselves in Civil Court. There is criminal court but there is also civil court (like in the OJ Simpson case). There should not be insurance covering for them to let them get away with stealing public money.

The Coffin Joke on us taxpayers was just an insult to the taxpayers. Martha Stewart got time for $40K stock trade which was like Ten Cents worth of crime relatively speaking compared to her net worth.

Canada is comical the way they treat the most serious of crimes which is the Betrayal of Public Trust. People are excecuted in many countries for nominal amounts taken but here millions stolen are brushed off as if nothing happened.