The Death of Democracy

[Radiorum]

Democracy can die under the guise of the government enacting and enforcing laws that they say are necessary to “maintain stability” and protect "core national interests."

To wit:

Quote

A Hong Kong court sentenced dozens of leading pro-democracy figures to up to 10 years in prison Tuesday in the single largest trial under a national security law (Article 23) that critics say has been used to all but eliminate political dissent in the Chinese territory.

It’s all part of the authorities’ effort to eliminate opposition, despite the fact that more than 80% of adults in Hong Kong support a democratic system in which two or more political parties compete in elections.

Hong Kong was promised its civil liberties would be preserved for 50 years when it returned to Chinese sovereignty in 1997. Since then, “Hong Kong’s civil liberties and judicial independence have nosedived.”

“Running in an election and trying to win it is now a crime that can lead to a decade in prison in Hong Kong,” Maya Wang, associate China director at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement.

Margaret Chen, a 59-year-old retiree who had attended most of the trial since it began in February 2023, said, “that democracy had died in Hong Kong and people are too afraid to speak out.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hong-kong-47-democracy-activists-sentenced-national-security-rcna180290

[NAME REMOVED]

Democracy is already dead in America. Trump killed Democracy, and the day the establishment decided he did not deserve jail time for attempting insurrection on January 6, 2001. 

The Democrats have 2 months to try to convince the military and the people to rise up, and take out Trump and his cronies. 23 leading economists say that Project 2025 will lead to the worst recession in American history, but also completely do away with all civil liberties.

Americans have to act now. If one could go back in time to 1933, if we were in Europe, and had the chance, how many people would not jump at the chance to take out the Nazi Party? The problem with that period of time, is that good people did not act, and let bullies and evil men control a powerful country, We are seeing history repeat itself. 

Americans have to rise up now, or else the US and Canada (by exporting over 75% of our goods to America), will be screwed for years. People are going to realise by the end of 2025 just how destructive Trump will be on America, now that he has total control of pretty much everything. The time to act is now.

Jail him before he is sworn in.

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Democracy is already dead in America. Trump killed Democracy, and the day the establishment decided he did not deserve jail time for attempting insurrection on January 6, 2001. 

The Democrats have 2 months to try to convince the military and the people to rise up, and take out Trump and his cronies. 23 leading economists say that Project 2025 will lead to the worst recession in American history, but also completely do away with all civil liberties.

Americans have to act now. If one could go back in time to 1933, if we were in Europe, and had the chance, how many people would not jump at the chance to take out the Nazi Party? The problem with that period of time, is that good people did not act, and let bullies and evil men control a powerful country, We are seeing history repeat itself. 

Americans have to rise up now, or else the US and Canada (by exporting over 75% of our goods to America), will be screwed for years. People are going to realise by the end of 2025 just how destructive Trump will be on America, now that he has total control of pretty much everything. The time to act is now.

Jail him before he is sworn in.

I can't agree entirely or even disagree with what you wrote. I can't like it, or thank you. You're not wrong exactly. 

I don't know. 

They did choose to put this person in. The reasons are, to me, ultimately due to home economics. But the way they decide is not based on policy, it's branding and the personas of the leaders. Otherwise Trump would have been badly beaten. 

Making an uninformed electorate choose tariffs and a president-controlled fed is like letting your pet drive your car. 

So they'll find out. 

Simultaneously, the neoliberal trickle-down mindset had to fail somehow and I guess this is how. 

And I hope I'm dead wrong.

[Radiorum]

15 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Democracy is already dead in America.

It’s definitely in danger. Trump’s relationship with Prime Minister Orbán of Hungary holds a clue. Orbán has replaced Hungarian democracy with an authoritarian regime.

It began by militarizing the border to keep out migrants and asylum seekers – installing an “immense security apparatus” – and led to using laws as weapons, as well as controlling all media. In the “election” the opposition never had a fair chance.

Nonsensical regulations hamper pro-democracy organizations. Corporations are controlled by Orbán’s cronies. And, in the “unending drumbeat of propaganda” –

Quote

From both official state outlets and the private media empires of Orbán allies, demonizes refugees and Muslims, warning of an existential thread to Hungarian society and culture – and touting the Orbán regime as the only thing protecting the country from an Islamic takeover. This trumped-up crisis serves as a legitimate tool for (Orbán’s party) Fidesz’s authoritarianism, a pretext for the government to pass laws undermining its opponents.

Sound familiar?

Is Trump importing Orbán’s strategy of subtle repression? Why did Orbán visit Trump at Mar-a-Lago?

Quote

It’s not for nothing that Steve Bannon, who has called Orbán “the most significant guy on the scene right now,” is currently in Europe building an organization — called “the Movement” — aimed at spreading Orbán’s populist politics across the continent.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/13/17823488/hungary-democracy-authoritarianism-trump

[User]

20 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

The Democrats have 2 months to try to convince the military and the people to rise up, and take out Trump and his cronies.

You are insane. 

[Radiorum]

9 minutes ago, User said:

You are insane. 

Trump is positioned to change the face of America. He is in a much more powerful position than his first term. He has complete control of the Republican party, has taken control of the Supreme Court, and has a VP that is blindly loyal to him.  He will bring his own people to key positions and they will do whatever he tells them to.  

[User]

6 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Trump is positioned to change the face of America. He is in a much more powerful position than his first term. He has complete control of the Republican party, has taken control of the Supreme Court, and has a VP that is blindly loyal to him.  He will bring his own people to key positions and they will do whatever he tells them to.  

And?

Trump is operating within the powers of the Executive like any President will do. Trump does not control the Supreme Court. A VP serves with the President, nothing new there. Yeah, presidents pick their cabinet. They are in fact there to carry out the vision of the President. That is exactly the point. 

 

[Radiorum]

1 minute ago, User said:

They are in fact there to carry out the vision of the President.

That is what is concerning.

[User]

Just now, Radiorum said:

That is what is concerning.

OK. 

Better luck next election. 

Maybe... just maybe, you might be more conservative in your political views and support a more limited government so you are not as concerned when people you don't like are leading things. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, User said:

 

Maybe... just maybe, you might be more conservative in your political views and support a more limited government so you are not as concerned when people you don't like are leading things. 

 

You weren't here when Argus was the leading conservative voice on this board, and when he left because a new host of Trump supporters arrived believing themselves to be conservative.

"Limited Government"

Does not mean:

A NON independent Federal Reserve Bank 

Executive Orders for sweeping tarrifs 

Reduction in seniors benefits for people who paid in to the program their whole lives 

Mass deportations

Creating new agencies with broad and undefined powers 

Denying broadcast licenses to opposing views 

And (Argus' biggest objection to Trump) massive deficit spending 

-------

Trump is not conservative.  He uses the inflammatory language of radicals to mobilize the uninformed.  If you think he's conservative, you're wrong.

 

[User]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Trump is not conservative.  He uses the inflammatory language of radicals to mobilize the uninformed.  If you think he's conservative, you're wrong.

Where did I say Trump was conservative?

He is somewhere center-right, generally, on the political spectrum, with some very Conservative policy positions. 
 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, User said:

1. Where did I say Trump was conservative?

2. He is somewhere center-right, generally, on the political spectrum, with some very Conservative policy positions. 
 

1. Fair enough. 👍

2. He's a radical.

[August1991]

8 hours ago, Radiorum said:

Democracy can die under the guise of the government enacting and enforcing laws that they say are necessary to “maintain stability” and protect "core national interests."

===

Huh?

 

7 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Democracy is already dead in America. Trump killed Democracy, and the day the establishment decided he did not deserve jail time for attempting insurrection on January 6, 2001.

 

Huh?

[August1991]

Radiorum or DUI_Offebder,

Before you claim the death of democracy, at least explain what it is.

Democracy?

Here are my two conditions of a civilised State:

-a government peacefully changes (Bush, Obama, - opponents hand over power,etc)

-the State itself changes without death (US Civil War, Canada)

[Radiorum]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

Huh?

Are you asking me to explain it or disagreeing?

[Radiorum]

15 hours ago, Radiorum said:

Democracy can die under the guise of the government enacting and enforcing laws that they say are necessary to “maintain stability” and protect "core national interests."

I'm not claiming democracy is dead in the US, but there are warning signs.

My quote means - Rights can be infringed upon and dissent repressed in the name of “maintaining stability” and protecting “core national interests” – goals that are open to a lot of interpretation.

Consider - Trump has long derided and intimidated the free press. (Why do you think the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times did not endorse any presidential candidate?) Now, he has threatened to end their access to him if they treat him unfairly, as well as to rescind the licenses of networks that displease him.

He tried it in his first term, calling on the FCC to revoke the license of NBC after they reported that his secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, had called him a word that rhymes with boron. 

Brendan Carr, Trump’s nominee for head the FCC (who wrote the FCC chapter in Project 2025 – so much for disavowing it), has stated that he would “enforce” broadcasters’ “obligation” to act in the “public interest.”

That term – “public interest” – can be used to justify all sorts of infringements on rights, in the same way that Hungary has silenced dissent in order to “maintain stability” and protect “core national interests.”