What is a Proxy War?

[NAME REMOVED]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

oh look, you learned something.  Well done. 

"No" issue would probably be strong but as noted it was always discussed as a defense against germany. It was believed germany wouldn't risk war with russia. 

Of course in the end russia kind of backstabbed poland but as far as poland, france and britian were concerned this was and anti-german move and not unexpected. 

Hitler's entire long term goal was the conquer the entire Soviet Union. The problem is that Poland was in the way, so they had to take care of the Poles first. The main beef Hitler had with Poland, is that the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, created Poland, using some Prussian territory belonging to Germany. Hitler wanted to reclaim that territory, and the Poles obviously refused to relinquish it.

The Germans also knew that they needed to import copious amounts of raw materials from the Soviet Union, in order to be successful at their goal of eventually conquering the country. Looking back in retrospect, it's almost incredible that Stalin would make any type of deal with Hitler,  if we consider this was a guy who had most of his major general and others killed, due to his paranoia. 

Edited November 20, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Hitler's entire long term goal was the conquer the entire Soviet Union. The problem is that Poland was in the way, so they had to take care of the Poles first. The main beef Hitler had with Poland, is that the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, created Poland, using some Prussian territory belonging to Germany. Hitler wanted to reclaim that territory, and the Poles obviously refused to relinquish it.

The Germans also knew that they needed to import copious amounts of raw materials from the Soviet Union, in order to be successful at their goal of eventually conquering the country. Looking back in retrospect, it's almost incredible that Stalin would make any type of deal with Hitler,  if we consider this was a guy who had most of his major general and others killed, due to his paranoia. 

Oil, steel, platinum chromium and other strategic materials... Russia had everything germany didn't and in buckets full. And what they didn't have South Africa did and it was Nazi friendly. Had they succeeded in taking over Russia They would have had the tools they needed, not to mention a straight line for trade and exchange with japan whom they were happy to let run asia. I think essentially before along the world would have been north America Asia ruled by japan and the rest of the world ruled by  germany as the only  powers. 

Edited November 21, 2024 by CdnFox

[NAME REMOVED]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Oil, steel, platinum chromium and other strategic materials... Russia had everything germany didn't and in buckets full. And what they didn't have South Africa did and it was Nazi friendly. Had they succeeded in taking over Russia They would have had the tools they needed, not to mention a straight line for trade and exchange with japan whom they were happy to let run asia. I think essentially before along the world would have been north America Asia ruled by japan and the rest of the world ruled by  germany as the only  powers. 

No matter what happened on the Eastern Front, it's pretty much a given, that the war had already turned against the Axis powers. The turning point of WW2, is widely considered Stalingrad on the Eastern Front, and Pearl Harbour in the Pacific Theatre.

The Americans won the vast majority of battles with Japan for the next three years, until they literally had full control of the Pacific, so even if Germany had somehow defeated the Soviets, there would ahve been little they could ahve done to help Japan. Additionally, Hitler's racial policies, helping Japan defeat America was not an objective that they considered paramount. Hitler wanted to finish off the Jews, enslave the Slavic people and others, then clear the area for ethnic Germans to inhabit.

The British and Americans would have eventually attempted to invade mainland Europe, but this would ahve been delayed if the Russians lost. Eventually, the allies would ahve prevailed, if only due to the vast superiority of the American army. 

Or...they could have done nothing, and dropped the nukes on japan, and threatened Hitler that Germany was "next." That would have likely caused at the very least, the Germans to stop their military operations, and relinquish all of Western Europe, and possibly much of Eastern Europe, as the Germans lacked the resources to develop a nuclear arsenal.

USA could have conducted bombing raids from Britain, and nuked Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden, or Munich. The Germans would ahve surrendered unconditionally after a populated German city was hit by a nuke, in short order. 

If we really look at it, nuclear warheads did more for peace, than any other weapon in human history. 

Edited November 21, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

No matter what happened on the Eastern Front, it's pretty much a given, that the war had already turned against the Axis powers. The turning point of WW2, is widely considered Stalingrad on the Eastern Front, and Pearl Harbour in the Pacific Theatre.

The Americans won the vast majority of battles with Japan for the next three years, until they literally had full control of the Pacific, so even if Germany had somehow defeated the Soviets, there would ahve been little they could ahve done to help Japan. Additionally, Hitler's racial policies, helping Japan defeat America was not an objective that they considered paramount. Hitler wanted to finish off the Jews, enslave the Slavic people and others, then clear the area for ethnic Germans to inhabit.

The British and Americans would have eventually attempted to invade mainland Europe, but this would ahve been delayed if the Russians lost. Eventually, the allies would ahve prevailed, if only due to the vast superiority of the American army. 

Or...they could have done nothing, and dropped the nukes on japan, and threatened Hitler that Germany was "next." That would have likely caused at the very least, the Germans to stop their military operations, and relinquish all of Western Europe, and possibly much of Eastern Europe, as the Germans lacked the resources to develop a nuclear arsenal.

USA could have conducted bombing raids from Britain, and nuked Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden, or Munich. The Germans would ahve surrendered unconditionally after a populated German city was hit by a nuke, in short order. 

If we really look at it, nuclear warheads did more for peace, than any other weapon in human history. 

Well these kinds of what ifs have been played out a billion times and it's always fun, but fortunately we'll never know how it would have gone. 

I think many historians look at midway rather than pear as a turning point in the pacific, and to be honest the japs still went pretty much toe to toe with the us until the end of Guadalcanal. They still sank a lot of us ships, killed many us troops etc and even had some arial victories. But after than they were in slow decline. 

But if germany had taken russia the US would have had to give a lot more thought to it's eastern waters, and germany through russia could have supplied japan with fuel, the lack of which was a major reason they lost.  German uboats, freed from atlantic duty, could have been more of a threat in the pacific. 

I mean no matter what the bomb still would have ended the war unless germany came up with one at the same time but if germany took russia i think it would have been a very different war. 

[Five of swords]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

oh look, you learned something.  Well done. 

"No" issue would probably be strong but as noted it was always discussed as a defense against germany. It was believed germany wouldn't risk war with russia. 

Of course in the end russia kind of backstabbed poland but as far as poland, france and britian were concerned this was and anti-german move and not unexpected. 

I didn't learn anything...you just didn't realize how retarded your attempt at a lie was.

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

I didn't learn anything...

Well I suppose it was too much to hope for. But realistically you've never learned anything before so why start now?