Are you a man or a woman?

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, Deluge said:

21 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Sources can't be refuted by simply saying that they are "trash". Nevertheless, I appreciate that your response didn't end there. I may not always agree wth conservative beliefs, but I appreciate the fact that you took the time to quote and link to a source that expresses them. Anyway, it's clear that there are wildly diverging takes on what cultural marxism means, as well as the people who use the term.

The point, Phoenix75, is that you are desperately searching for a way to sow confusion into this topic.

On the contrary, I'm trying to focus on the evidence rather than disparaging sources of information that I disagree with for whatever reason. After a lot of posting on this subject, however, I'm wondering if it's really worth much more of my time with the current responders in this thread. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't get them to drink.

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, User said:

21 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/4/2024 at 10:40 AM, User said:

On 11/4/2024 at 9:12 AM, phoenyx75 said:

This goes back to my belief that there should be a way to differentiate between cisgender and transgender people.

We have that, they are called transgender. 

That certainly works when you want to identify people who are transgender. The problem occurs when you want to identify people who aren't. Cisgender works great to do this.

LOL, no. Male, Female, Transgender. No problems at all. 

Again, the problem is that there's a fair amount of people who now define male as anyone who identifies as male and female as anyone who identifies as female. Given this reality, as well as the reality that it is at times a good thing to be able to differentiate between cisgenders and transgenders, adding cis and trans to male and female solves the problem quite well.

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, User said:

22 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What you say tends to be backed up by nothing. What Wikipedia says is always backed up by sources. You can certainly contest Wikipedia's sources, but you're not doing that, all you're doing is saying that Wikipedia's assertions, which are backed up by sources, are not worth looking into.

What I say is backed up by logic, observation, and reason. 

Anyone can say that. The hard part is showing that prominent sources agree with your logic, observation and reason. That's where you fail on this subject.

17 hours ago, User said:

You are born a male or female, a doctor is not "assigning" that gender to you at birth, it is an observation of what you are. 

 

All I can do is point out what recognized sources of information have said about sex assignment. You're free to disagree all you like:

**

Sex assignment (also known as gender assignment^[1][2]) is the discernment of an infant's sex, typically made at birth based on an examination of the baby's external genitalia by a healthcare provider such as a midwife, nurse, or physician.^[3] In the vast majority of cases (99.95%), sex is assigned unambiguously at birth. However, in about 1 in 2000 births, the baby's genitalia may not clearly indicate male or female, necessitating additional diagnostic steps, and deferring sex assignment.^[4][5]

In most countries the healthcare provider's determination, along with other details of the birth, is by law recorded on an official document and submitted to the government for later issuance of a birth certificate and for other legal purposes.^[6]

The prevalence of intersex conditions, where a baby's sex characteristics do not conform strictly to typical definitions of male or female, ranges between 0.018% and 1.7%.^[7][8][9] While some intersex conditions result in genital ambiguity (approximately 0.02% to 0.05% of births^[4]), others present genitalia that are distinctly male or female, which may delay the recognition of an intersex condition until later in life.^[10][11]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

Edited November 7, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, User said:

22 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You only say this because you refuse to accept the fact that there are new definitions for words like gender, male and female. Once you can accept this fact, we can get into -why- you don't like these new definitions.

Yes, I refuse to accept your new definitions. I have been obvious on that.

That you have. Now, if they were -only- my definitions for these terms, that'd probably be the end of it. They're not though. In fact, I didn't even come up with them. More importantly, prominent sources of information now include these definitions. So, you can continue to pretend that these definitions don't exist, or you can acknowledge the fact. Sometimes you seem to do that a bit and then we can get into why you dislike them. Other times, we seem to be stuck in this area where you can't even acknowledge they exist. It reminds me of things like Alcoholics Anonymous, where the first step is to acknowledge the problem and only after that can you get on with the other work that needs to be done.

Edited November 7, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Agreed, LARPing has nothing to do with gender. I was talking about gender fluidity.

Gender is not fluid. 

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, User said:

23 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

You keep on denying the fact that terms such as male and female now have more than one definition. I've already shown you hard evidence of this. Once you accept this, we can talk about why you don't like it, but accepting the fact that these words have more than one meaning is the first step.

They don't. They have one definition

Back to denial again -.- Ah well, hopefully you'll come around one day.

[Scott75]

17 hours ago, User said:

23 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

It most definitely does. Here's the first definition from Cambridge's dictionary at dictionary.cambridge.org:

**

female

female adjective (GENDER)

 

belonging or relating to women or girls:

She was voted the best female vocalist.

She was the school's first trans female athlete.

**

Here's the second:

**

female adjective (SEX)

belonging or relating to the sex that can give birth to young or produce eggs:

**

 

So, one definition for female as defined by gender and one definition for female as defined by sex.

This is not the kind of different meaning you were arguing the term has. 

All this is saying is that the term female can relate to talking about sex or gender, but they are still the same thing, as it says female is belonging to being a woman or a girl. Which... you must be female to be a woman or girl or to have the sex of female you are a woman or a girl. 

Did you not notice the example given of the trans female athlete?

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

It's a fairly well known term:

https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-intersex

From the above link:

**

What Does Intersex Mean?

Intersex is an umbrella term for people who are born with one or more traits in their chromosomes, genitals, hormones, or internal reproductive organs that don’t fit the typical male or female patterns. Some of their traits might not match the sex they were assigned at birth or may combine traditionally understood male and female traits. 

While intersex traits are often noticed at birth, the differences aren't always obvious then. People might discover they have intersex traits at puberty or in adulthood, sometimes as a result of medical testing for infertility. In rare instances, such differences are found in autopsies, after people have died. 

It's important to note that intersex people may use varying terms to describe their differences. While many reject the language used by some medical organizations – "disorders of sex development" – some use the term "differences of sex development." The most widely used description is intersex.

**

In the rare case that a baby is born deformed, choosing one or the other gender would be a good idea.

[Scott75]

18 hours ago, Deluge said:

22 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/4/2024 at 10:39 AM, Deluge said:

The term "Sex assignment" is politicized bullshit. It's best to stick with biological fact: If you're born with a penis, you're a boy. If you're born with a vagina, you're a girl. 

It's not, though. I suspect the reason it's used has to do with people who are intersex. From an article on the subject:

**

Intersex is an umbrella term that describes bodies that fall outside the strict male/female binary. There are lots of ways someone can be intersex.

 What does intersex mean?

Intersex is a general term used for a variety of situations in which a person is born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t fit the boxes of “female” or “male.” Sometimes doctors do surgeries on intersex babies and children to make their bodies fit binary ideas of “male” or “female”. Doctors always assign intersex babies a legal sex (male or female, in most states), but, just like with non-intersex people, that doesn’t mean that’s the gender identity they’ll grow up to have. This brings up questions about whether or not it’s OK to do medical procedures on children’s bodies when it’s not needed for their health. 

Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.

If a person’s genitals look different from what doctors and nurses expect when they’re born, someone might be identified as intersex from birth. Other times, someone might not know they’re intersex until later in life, like when they go through puberty. Sometimes a person can live their whole life without ever discovering that they’re intersex.

**

 

Full article:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity/whats-intersex

You're talking about hermaphrodites and they are much too small of a community to force the entire nation into the tranny agenda. They will continue living the way they've always lived. 

The article I linked to doesn't mention hermaphrodites at all, which got me wondering. I looked up the term hermaphrodite on Wikipedia, and I got this at the top:

"Not to be confused with Intersex people or Intersex (biology)."

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

And yet, when I went to the Wikipedia's Hermaphrodite (disambiguation) page, I got this:

**

Biology

[edit]

• Hermaphrodite (botany), a flowering plant that has both male and female structures, that is, it combines both sexes in one structure
• Bovine hermaphrodite, an infertile cow with masculinized behavior and non-functioning ovaries
• Sequential hermaphrodite, an individual that changes its sex at some point in its life
• Simultaneous hermaphrodite, an individual that has sex organs of both sexes and can produce both gamete types even in the same breeding season
• Intersex (biology), a general term for an organism that has sex characteristics that are between male and female
  • Intersex person, an individual born with any of several sex characteristics, including chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, or genitals that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies
    • Pseudohermaphrodite, an individual whose gonads are mismatched with their internal reproductive system and/or external genitalia
    • True hermaphrodite, an individual who is born with ovarian and testicular tissue

**

 

The following article from biologydictionary.com directly equates the 2 terms:

https://biologydictionary.net/hermaphrodite/

Quoting:

**

Causes of Normally Dimorphic Hermaphrodites

In sexually dimorphic organisms, a hermaphrodite may arise because of variations in the genetic code. In humans, hermaphrodites are caused by a variety of genetic conditions. In one form, a hermaphrodite or intersex person is created when two fertilized eggs fuse together, giving the zygote two X chromosomes and one Y chromosome. Other cases of hermaphrodites are caused by the SRY gene, the gene responsible for testosterone and male genitals, being transferred to the X chromosome during meiosis, resulting in both male and female genitals.

**

Anyway, it looks like term for people with these uncommon conditions would generally prefer to be called intersex people, so I'll go with that.

As to continuing to "live as they've always lived", I can understand that as a conservative you'd like things to stay as they have always been, but it seems to me that the intersex community would like some changes, one of which is apparently to now be referred to as intersex people rather than hermaphrodites.

As to people who are intersex and their crossover with transgenderism, that's not a subject that I've explored all that much. But in the case of intersex people, it's clear that there is definitely a -biological- component involved.

Edited November 7, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

18 hours ago, User said:

On 11/6/2024 at 6:12 AM, phoenyx75 said:

So, I could say "A biological man that identifies as a man" instead of just saying cisgender. Whatever floats your boat.

LOL, no. Just say male. 

If I was just talking to you and I knew that your definition of male was "a biological male who identifies as a male", then sure, I could do that. The problem arises when addressing an audience where some people in the group define male as you do and others define male as anyone who identifies as male. To make sure that everyone understands me, I'd have to either go for the very long term quoted above, or I could just say cisgender. Again, which term I use would also probably depend on the audience. If I knew or strongly suspected that some people would object to the term cisgender, I might well opt for the cumbersome "biological male who identifes as a male".

Edited November 7, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

18 hours ago, User said:

On 11/6/2024 at 6:12 AM, phoenyx75 said:

Secondly, you've still shown no evidence that there is anything "nonsensical" about the new definitions for gender terms such as male and female.

Yes, I have. You use the term to define the term. 

The same thing is done to define a democrat or a republican. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't attempt to define democrats and republicans with other words, but then, you can do the same thing with males and females. Males generally have more masculine traits, females more female traits. If we're talking about biological males, this is obvious, but there are social traits too, like males tend to like sports more, for instance. An interesting case of a young transgender male who sued his school for not allowing him to be in the boy's locker room after engaging in sports with them:
Transgender Student’s Lawsuit Over Locker Room Access Costs District Millions | Athletic Business

[Scott75]

18 hours ago, User said:

On 11/6/2024 at 6:04 AM, phoenyx75 said:

What you call 'perverting' is simply changing the original meaning of the word. The definitions of words change all the time and a good amount of people have decided that their meaning of gender now includes anyone who identifies with said gender. The fat that words such as biological or cis now need to be added to gender in order to differentiate between cis and transgender people just means that there are still situations where it's important to know the difference between these 2 types of people. Incidentally, I think cis is better for 2 reasons:

1- It's shorter.

2- It doesn't just say what a person's biological gender is, but also what gender they identify with.

No, male or female is shorter. 

True. However, as I've mentioned many times, a significant amount of people now define male as includng both cisgender and transgender males and define females as including both cisgender and transgender females. Given this reality, if you're addressing an audience that includes people who define these terms in this way, people can misinterpret what you mean. The only way to make things clear is to use additional words, such as "biological", "identifies with", both of these, or just cis and trans followed by male or female.

[Scott75]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

13 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

That's one of the definitions. The other relates to gender. Wikipedia explains:

**

Usage

In humans, the word male can be used in the context of gender, such as for gender role or gender identity of a man or boy.^[7] For example, according to Merriam-Webster, "male" can refer to "having a gender identity that is the opposite of female".^[21] According to the Cambridge Dictionary, "male" can mean "belonging or relating to men".^[22]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male

Well according to you I get to define the word however I want so I'm perfectly legitimate to say the Wikipedia is entirely wrong.

I said -we- can define words however we want. Naturally, this works best where everyone agrees on the definition of a word. Unfortunately, groups of people don't always agree on what the definition of a word should be. Words that start being defined in news ways typically start off as slang. Gender words have moved past that, to the point that laws and courts are now siding with the new definitions. I've pointed this out to you before, but I think it might be helpful to do so once more in case you've forgotten:

Transgender Student’s Lawsuit Over Locker Room Access Costs District Millions | Athletic Business

[Deluge]

13 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Where?

Go find it, mr. super responder. It's in that pile of comments you've been piling up.  

[Scott75]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

13 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/4/2024 at 11:19 AM, Deluge said:

People need to be accepting without bending to the trans agenda, which is possible. The problem is that trans activists have gotten overly aggressive. They want more than just acceptance; they want full compliance with their agenda. 

As far as I know, you haven't even defined what you think the trans agenda -is-. How about you start there?

I'll do it for you. Is the promotion of rights that are seen to be beneficial to the transgender people to the exclusion of and erosion of the rights of other people. Other people must be repressed and made to obey whatever transgender activists state should be or else face dire consequences.

That's quite the draconian vision you have of this alleged trans agenda -.- Thanks for sharing though. Now I at least know what you think this alleged trans agenda is.

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You're kind of proving that here as you talk. I see zero respect for anybody else, in fact you're happy to disrespect others provided you foster the idea that everything the trans people do is right and correct

That's certainly a very distorted view of me, but again, thanks for sharing. Some questions for you:

1- Why do you think I have "zero respect for anybody else"?

2- Am I part of your alleged "trans agenda"?

3- Do you have any evidence for your assertions?

4- Where did you get this notion that I think that "everything the trans people do is right and correct"?

5- Are you even aware that not all trans people see things the same way? Take a look at Matt Walsh's "What is a woman?" documentary if you don't believe me. Matt Walsh is quite conservative, trust me. His documentary can be seen here:

https://rumble.com/v2rpv4w-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-full-documentary.html

Take a look at the testimony of a trans man, starting at around 55 minutes and 30 seconds.

[Scott75]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

13 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

As I've said elsewhere, there's actually a third possibility even when it comes to biological, which is intersex:

Sex and gender: What is the difference? | Medical News Today

And once we get into gender as a social construct, we have yet more possibilties.

But it's all dishonesty. You're Mis defining words To promote an agenda

Good soundbite, but that's all it is. I provided you with an article from a medical web site making my case. Did you even read it?

[Scott75]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

12 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/4/2024 at 11:33 AM, Deluge said:

It doesn't depend on the place

It's unfortunate that you're not aware of the reality that it really does. Some examples that make this crystal clear:

Wisconsin school district can’t restrict bathrooms for trans student, judge says | NBC

Here's another example where a school's intransigence cost them millions:

Transgender Student’s Lawsuit Over Locker Room Access Costs District Millions | Athletic Business

Then the law needs to change to avoid that.

We can disagree on that point, but at least you recognize what I was conveying to Deluge, namely that where trans people go to washrooms or locker rooms depends on the place they live.

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If honest people are being discriminated against by transgender people that shouldn't be tolerated

Sure. The question is, would you agree to it the other way around, namely: "If honest transgender people are being discriminated against by cisgender people, that shouldn't be tolerated".

[Scott75]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

12 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Your sentiment makes me smile as I consider a line from one of Frank Herbert's books:

"Scratch a conservative and you find someone who prefers the past over any future."

Source:

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3634588-god-emperor-of-dune

your sentiment makes me smile as I consider a common phrase :

Scratch a liberal and you'll find a fascist

scratch a liberal and you'll find a fascist - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

For the record, I've never really considered myself a liberal, at least not in the way I understand the term. I consider myself more of a realist. 

I've liked terms like progressive in the past, but some politicians labelled as progressives have let me down sometimes.

[Scott75]

10 hours ago, Legato said:

10 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/5/2024 at 5:38 AM, Nationalist said:

LARPing. It's nothing to do with gender.

Agreed, LARPing has nothing to do with gender. I was talking about gender fluidity.

It does for the NPC's

If you want to expand on that statement, be my guest. I've never LARPed, but I did look up Wikipedia's page on LARPing. They didn't even mention gender, let alone gender fluidity.

[Scott75]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

10 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Agreed, LARPing has nothing to do with gender. I was talking about gender fluidity.

Gender is not fluid. 

I believe you're right for most people, but there are apparently exceptions. From Wikipedia's article on the subject:

**

Gender fluidity (commonly referred to as genderfluid) is a non-fixed gender identity that shifts over time or depending on the situation. These fluctuations can occur at the level of gender identity or gender expression. A genderfluid person may fluctuate among different gender expressions over their lifetime, or express multiple aspects of various gender markers simultaneously.^[1][2] Genderfluid individuals may identify as non-binary or transgender, or cisgender (meaning they identify with the gender associated with their sex assigned at birth).^[3][4]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_fluidity

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

If you want to expand on that statement, be my guest. I've never LARPed, but I did look up Wikipedia's page on LARPing. They didn't even mention gender, let alone gender fluidity.

No expansion necessary. 

1 minute ago, phoenyx75 said:

I believe you're right for most people, but there are apparently exceptions. From Wikipedia's article on the subject:

**

Gender fluidity (commonly referred to as genderfluid) is a non-fixed gender identity that shifts over time or depending on the situation. These fluctuations can occur at the level of gender identity or gender expression. A genderfluid person may fluctuate among different gender expressions over their lifetime, or express multiple aspects of various gender markers simultaneously.^[1][2] Genderfluid individuals may identify as non-binary or transgender, or cisgender (meaning they identify with the gender associated with their sex assigned at birth).^[3][4]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_fluidity

Dude...if you insist on warping reality and opposing nature, be my guest. But know that your path cannot end well.

[Scott75]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

  

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

It's a fairly well known term:

https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-intersex

From the above link:

**

What Does Intersex Mean?

Intersex is an umbrella term for people who are born with one or more traits in their chromosomes, genitals, hormones, or internal reproductive organs that don’t fit the typical male or female patterns. Some of their traits might not match the sex they were assigned at birth or may combine traditionally understood male and female traits. 

While intersex traits are often noticed at birth, the differences aren't always obvious then. People might discover they have intersex traits at puberty or in adulthood, sometimes as a result of medical testing for infertility. In rare instances, such differences are found in autopsies, after people have died. 

It's important to note that intersex people may use varying terms to describe their differences. While many reject the language used by some medical organizations – "disorders of sex development" – some use the term "differences of sex development." The most widely used description is intersex.

**

In the rare case that a baby is born deformed, choosing one or the other gender would be a good idea.

Not necessarily. Ironically, Matt Walsh, a conservative who created the documentary "What is a woman?" presents a powerful argument to let the child decide rather than making the decision for them, by presenting the case of the Reimer twins at around the 53 minutes and 30 second mark:

https://rumble.com/v2rpv4w-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-full-documentary.html

There's a good summary of the case here:

**

Summary

• David Reimer was born in 1965; he had a MZ twin brother. When he was 8 months old his penis was accidentally cut off during surgery.
• His parents contacted John Money, a psychologist who was developing a theory of gender neutrality. His theory claimed that a child would take the gender identity he/she was raised with rather than the gender identity corresponding to the biological sex.
• David’s parents brought him up as a girl and Money wrote extensively about this case claiming it supported his theory. However, Brenda as he was named was suffering from severe psychological and emotional difficulties and in her teens, when she found out what had happened, she reverted back to being a boy.
• This case study supports the influence of testosterone on gender development as it shows that David’s brain development was influenced by the presence of this hormone and its effects on gender identity was stronger that the influence of social factors.

**

Source:

https://www.simplypsychology.org/david-reimer.html

Now, you could say, he would have been an undeformed boy if it hadn't been for the accident, and you're right. But there are a lot of things going on in terms of biology when it comes to intersex people, meaning that just making a choice without the intersex person's consent can (and I believe should) have negative consequences for those making this decision. Quoting from the Wikipedia article on intersex people:

**

In 2011, Christiane Völling became the first intersex person known to have successfully sued for damages in a case brought for non-consensual surgical intervention.^[36] In April 2015, Malta became the first country to outlaw non-consensual medical interventions to modify sex anatomy, including that of intersex people.^[37][38]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

[Scott75]

48 minutes ago, Deluge said:

14 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

On 11/4/2024 at 11:33 AM, Deluge said:

On 11/3/2024 at 7:29 AM, phoenyx75 said:

What exactly do you believe constitutes the "lgbt agenda"?

Source provided. Go check there. 

Where?

Go find it, mr. super responder. It's in that pile of comments you've been piling up.  

Generally speaking, I don't go looking for the source material of people I debate with. By the same token, I don't ask people I debate with to look for my own source material. It's basically a rule of "do your own homework".

[Nationalist]

38 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

Not necessarily. Ironically, Matt Walsh, a conservative who created the documentary "What is a woman?" presents a powerful argument to let the child decide rather than making the decision for them, by presenting the case of the Reimer twins at around the 53 minutes and 30 second mark:

https://rumble.com/v2rpv4w-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-full-documentary.html

There's a good summary of the case here:

**

Summary

• David Reimer was born in 1965; he had a MZ twin brother. When he was 8 months old his penis was accidentally cut off during surgery.
• His parents contacted John Money, a psychologist who was developing a theory of gender neutrality. His theory claimed that a child would take the gender identity he/she was raised with rather than the gender identity corresponding to the biological sex.
• David’s parents brought him up as a girl and Money wrote extensively about this case claiming it supported his theory. However, Brenda as he was named was suffering from severe psychological and emotional difficulties and in her teens, when she found out what had happened, she reverted back to being a boy.
• This case study supports the influence of testosterone on gender development as it shows that David’s brain development was influenced by the presence of this hormone and its effects on gender identity was stronger that the influence of social factors.

**

Source:

https://www.simplypsychology.org/david-reimer.html

Now, you could say, he would have been an undeformed boy if it hadn't been for the accident, and you're right. But there are a lot of things going on in terms of biology when it comes to intersex people, meaning that just making a choice without the intersex person's consent can (and I believe should) have negative consequences for those making this decision. Quoting from the Wikipedia article on intersex people:

**

In 2011, Christiane Völling became the first intersex person known to have successfully sued for damages in a case brought for non-consensual surgical intervention.^[36] In April 2015, Malta became the first country to outlaw non-consensual medical interventions to modify sex anatomy, including that of intersex people.^[37][38]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Dude...sh1t happens. It's unfortunate but it does happen...very seldom.

It is not an excuse to oppose nature.

[Scott75]

18 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

57 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

Not necessarily. Ironically, Matt Walsh, a conservative who created the documentary "What is a woman?" presents a powerful argument to let the child decide rather than making the decision for them, by presenting the case of the Reimer twins at around the 53 minutes and 30 second mark:

https://rumble.com/v2rpv4w-what-is-a-woman-matt-walsh-full-documentary.html

There's a good summary of the case here:

**

Summary

• David Reimer was born in 1965; he had a MZ twin brother. When he was 8 months old his penis was accidentally cut off during surgery.
• His parents contacted John Money, a psychologist who was developing a theory of gender neutrality. His theory claimed that a child would take the gender identity he/she was raised with rather than the gender identity corresponding to the biological sex.
• David’s parents brought him up as a girl and Money wrote extensively about this case claiming it supported his theory. However, Brenda as he was named was suffering from severe psychological and emotional difficulties and in her teens, when she found out what had happened, she reverted back to being a boy.
• This case study supports the influence of testosterone on gender development as it shows that David’s brain development was influenced by the presence of this hormone and its effects on gender identity was stronger that the influence of social factors.

**

Source:

https://www.simplypsychology.org/david-reimer.html

Now, you could say, he would have been an undeformed boy if it hadn't been for the accident, and you're right. But there are a lot of things going on in terms of biology when it comes to intersex people, meaning that just making a choice without the intersex person's consent can (and I believe should) have negative consequences for those making this decision. Quoting from the Wikipedia article on intersex people:

**

In 2011, Christiane Völling became the first intersex person known to have successfully sued for damages in a case brought for non-consensual surgical intervention.^[36] In April 2015, Malta became the first country to outlaw non-consensual medical interventions to modify sex anatomy, including that of intersex people.^[37][38]

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Dude...sh1t happens. It's unfortunate but it does happen...very seldom.

It is not an excuse to oppose nature.

Do you think I'm opposing nature?