What happens to detainees?

[Black Dog]

geoffery:

I am not expert on psychology (my worst class actually) so I'm not qualified to say if torture works or not. Niether is anyone else on this board to the best of my knowledge, but we'll just say that it is 'unknown' if it works because I doubt if there is absolute proof.

In such cases where the facts are inconclusive (they aren't in this situation, but I'll humoir you), then one can always turn to existing moral or legal principles. And I'll go with those that don't put us in the same camp as every brutal, barbaric totaltarian regime in history.

If torture is proven to yield valuable information, then no limits should be put on those that extract the information.

If anyone could convince me that torture doesn't work, I'd gladly condemn it as a big waste of resources. But I'm not so sure. I know I'd spill the beans if I was being tortured, who knows if it works on anyone else.

I have very little sympathy or respect for terrorists. That being said, unneccessary beatings, ticklings, and water drops are rather pointless forms of abuse if there is no gain from it.

This breaks down very quickly when you get into the details. First: you are making an assumption that the person you're torturing has useful infomation to give you. There's certainly no clear-cut way to determine that before you torture them, so what do you do: torture everybody until you find the one guy with useful information? Second: how do you determine the veracity of their information? In other words: how do you know they aren't just telling you something-anything!- to make the torture stop? Finally, even if you know that the perosn has information that can only be extracted by torture (itself a highly improbable scenario), how can you be certain you wll get the information out of them in time. Using the "ticking time bomb" scenario, if I was a hard-boiled terrorist with intimate knowledge of a imminent threat, I would only have to hold on for as long as it would take for the bomb to go of.

I could go on, but the point is, there's far too many variables at work in any hypothetical situation to make a convincing case for the utility of torture.

[politika]

It doesn't matter. Inhumane treatment isn't US policy, unless the terrorist is withholding information that could save lives. Tough shit. Shouldn't have been there throwing rocks or shooting.

Is is it humane to take thousands of lives of innocent people?

I did not think so, so why should we show mercy to people that have no mercy for us?

I hope they lock them up and throw away the key, I am almost prone to say we shouldn't even make space for these animals in jail we should do them all off.

[Army Guy]

Is is it humane to take thousands of lives of innocent people?

I did not think so, so why should we show mercy to people that have no mercy for us?

I hope they lock them up and throw away the key, I am almost prone to say we shouldn't even make space for these animals in jail we should do them all off.

That is what separates us from them, The terrorist do not operate with any rules or conventions. terror is thier weopon. The main objective here is rebuild a nation, to assist them so that they may function normally within the world. And if we are setting the example for them to follow then we must be prepared to go the long road. And show them the right path. We as a nation have condemned the actions of the Nazi's because of thier conduct, why would we now say OK it's all right they are only terrorist lets lock them up and gas them.

Following the rules of conduct for nations and following the genva convention is just not about thier protection but ours as well. Giving soldiers "free reign on the battle field" to do what ever they wished is not a good idea. What would we do with these guys when they returned home, would you want these guys roaming your cities, drinking in your bars, imagine getting into a bar fight with one of them, a soldier used to solving his problems with killing without retribution. There is no switch that you can turn off and on.

Rules of conduct are thier for a reason they are not grey, but black and white, we cannot break them when they are convinent to us. they must be followed to the letter. if using terror is all right then why are we war with terrorist.

[gerryhatrick]

If torture is proven to yield valuable information, then no limits should be put on those that extract the information.

If anyone could convince me that torture doesn't work, I'd gladly condemn it as a big waste of resources.

You forget that the abuse and humiliation of people occuring in these US gulags up until now has been described by US intelligence as out of control.

The defence you and other rightwingers give for the torture we've witnessed thus far is that it's being done for the right reasons, when clearly it isn't.

The fall-back defence many rightwingnuts give is that it's deserved...that we shouldn't "feel sorry" for terrorists, but again we've learned from CIA and others that the vast majority of those in these prisons were just in the wrong place at the wrong time...often scooped up in some raid along with 30 other members of a family. A raid based on information they have no way of confirming.

Most telling about your personal clarification is you don't even care that innocents are getting abused. To you it's a "waste of resources".

Also telling is that you start from a position/assumption that torture does work. The bulk of the testimony and evidence out there indicates it doesn't, yet you plant yourself at the position requiring someone to convince you that it doesn't work.

The simple realization you should be able to understand is that people will say what they think their tormentors want to hear....with no regard for truth. Just say something to make it stop.

A real "high value" person with knowledge of an upcoming attack will give false information.

It's common sense.

I think the majority of the responses from the right on this thread show us that rightwingers care only about causing pain and exacting revenge and all others "feel sorry" for terrorists. It's another complicated issue that they cannot fully grasp, so they've settled on the old "I'm tough, let's roll!" position.