Draft Dodger nabbed!

[crazymf]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0312?hub=Canada

Allen Abney, who was born in the U.S. but raised in Canada, joined the Marine Corps in 1968 at the age of 19. After going through basic training in North Carolina, Allen fled to Canada before he could be sent to Vietnam.

Ok, it happened almost 40 years ago. SO WHAT! The guy deserted his responsibility to the American military. He's a 'COWARD'. Runs on up to the socialist liberal free country to suck off a free tit and reap benefits that real men have fought and died to uphold. What makes me sick is that somehow even the media seems to think this yellow fellow is having some injustice imposed on him when his former country arrests him for desertion.

Apparently, there's thousands of these morally bankrupt people wandering our great land pretending to be fine and decent human beings. What happens if Canada may need them to defend us? Are they just going to cut and run again?

Too bad Mr. Abney. You finally got what you deserve. It's a shame there's a 5 year jail limit on that act of cowardice you displayed.

And my fellow Canadians, don't feel sorry for yellow scum like this. They want all the good things in life and aren't willing to earn it.

[geoffrey]

He was actually in the Marines too before he deserted. More than a draft dodger, a guy that deserted his comrades in their time of need.

I have no problem with this guy seeing a long time inside a jail cell. Should of caught him earlier.

[Drea]

the article says "He joined the Marine Corps.

He was not a "draft dodger", but a "deserter".

Big, huge difference IMO.

I don't believe a gov't should be able to force it's citizens into becoming soldiers (the draft), but I do believe if you sign up, you should honour your commitment.

[crazymf]

Whoops. Jumbled that one. You're right though, he's a deserter, not a dodger. Sorry about that.

However, pretty much the same thing to me. Governments are somewhat like families, you don't get to choose them. You're born there. If a government chooses a draft is necessary, then the citizens are obligated to do their duty. Individuals don't have the right to second guess federal decisions of that nature. That's why we elect a government.

If a person runs away from federal obligations such as these, don't expect to be able to go back without paying your debt to society. This man is not only a coward, but flipping the bird to all his former countrymen by travelling recreationally and enjoying the benefits of society many a good man have died to protect. Of course Vietnam turned out to be a big waste of time, but that doesn't let this coward out of his obligations.

[Black Dog]

Ok, it happened almost 40 years ago. SO WHAT! The guy deserted his responsibility to the American military. He's a 'COWARD'. Runs on up to the socialist liberal free country to suck off a free tit and reap benefits that real men have fought and died to uphold. What makes me sick is that somehow even the media seems to think this yellow fellow is having some injustice imposed on him when his former country arrests him for desertion.

Apparently, there's thousands of these morally bankrupt people wandering our great land pretending to be fine and decent human beings. What happens if Canada may need them to defend us? Are they just going to cut and run again?

Too bad Mr. Abney. You finally got what you deserve. It's a shame there's a 5 year jail limit on that act of cowardice you displayed.

And my fellow Canadians, don't feel sorry for yellow scum like this. They want all the good things in life and aren't willing to earn it.

The old lie.

By the way: who on this thread is preparing to head to Afghanistan? Anyone?

the article says "He joined the Marine Corps.

He was not a "draft dodger", but a "deserter".

Another article I read said he joined because his brother was drafted and he figured he was next.

[speaker]

I think a really crazymf would understand that one of the duties and obligations of a free person in a free society or any society for that matter is to determine for themselves whether a war is a just war and to react to governmental decisions with that in mind. I suspect that if it's okay for one to make up ones own mind then it is also okay to change ones mind.

[crazymf]

Sure. Then in the next election, vote for a government that more closely stands for what you believe in.

Deserting is closing the gate WAY after the horse has left the building. Individual decision time has long past at that point.

Life is tough sometime. That's what makes heros as well as cowards. This man and many others have failed to stand up like men and tough it out. Just think, Iraqi deserters are coming to Canada as we speak and taking your women, having kids, using resources, and furthuring the cause of cowardice.

Our society is not better from this, it's worse. I hope our government starts to notice and sends more of these losers back where they belong to face life as it was dealt to them.

[Black Dog]

Sure. Then in the next election, vote for a government that more closely stands for what you believe in.

Assuming, of course, you didn't get your arms blown off by a V.C. boobytrap before you had the chane to mark your ballot...

Deserting is closing the gate WAY after the horse has left the building. Individual decision time has long past at that point.

How is being drafted (which would have inevitably happened to this guy) an "individual decision"?

Life is tough sometime. That's what makes heros as well as cowards. This man and many others have failed to stand up like men and tough it out. Just think, Iraqi deserters are coming to Canada as we speak and taking your women, having kids, using resources, and furthuring the cause of cowardice

Are you for real? You sound like Tokyo Rose ("Hey G.I., do you know wher eyour wife is tonight?"). The assumption that guys like this are a drain is way out there: I assume that, as a citizen since 1977, this guy held down a job, paid his taxes etc etc. Hell I'd rather take someone who's principled enough to risk jail than someone who's greatest manly contribution is raging at a computer screen.

Our society is not better from this, it's worse. I hope our government starts to notice and sends more of these losers back where they belong to face life as it was dealt to them.

Again: how?

[speaker]

I don't think that an army really wants mindless idiots in it's ranks, well not all the time anyway. The hero is the one who can see himself/herself around a problem.

Doesn't have much to do with politics though except that the more totalitarian governments believe they have the right to control people; body, mind, and soul.

I don't know that we aren't benefitting from army escapees, I would rather have them than the mindless ones. When they come they can contribute to our society, and do.

Taking our women? Is this a personal thing, if so life's tough sometimes. Try to rise above it. Perhaps some of the American women will avoid army services and even out the imbalance.

[crazymf]

'Taking our women', meant as a generalization of using our resources and promoting the attitude of shirking ones responsibilities by perpetuating themselves. ie. kids

I call these people cowards and you respond by calling the people who did serve honorably 'mindless idiots'.

This fellow has a dark past.

I'm sure people serving in our own military won't have much use for this 'respectable grandfather' who's been pretending to be a useful citizen either.

[Black Dog]

'Taking our women', meant as a generalization of using our resources and promoting the attitude of shirking ones responsibilities by perpetuating themselves. ie. kids

Personally, I don't view his situation as shirking responsibility so much as we was taking a stand against government coercion. Becaus eif he hadn't signed up, he probably would have bneen drafted anyway, which nullifies the whole "responsibility" angle: how can individuals be responsible for choices they don't make?

I'm sure people serving in our own military won't have much use for this 'respectable grandfather' who's been pretending to be a useful citizen either.

Again: please explainhow this guy has not been a useful ctizen? What information are you privy to that allows you to draw such a conclusion?

[geoffrey]

He was in violation of a contract at the very least. He signed up for service, and then bailed.

The US has to send a message to these hooligans that sign up to get their college paid for and then when service comes a calling they book it to Canada. It doesn't work that way. You have a commitment to your country and your fellow service people when you enlist for a 5 or 6 year service term, as repayment for the government covering your ass through college.

I don't think this guy was using the Marines for college, but one day he just decided I don't want to go, after committing to his country that he would. That's crap.

Nevertheless, he's just being dealt with administratively and won't see a court martial. He be back in Canada in a few days, being kept in a nice big room with a TV and window, not a cell, in the meantime.

He got lucky. Maybe we should go back to shooting deserters.

[Black Dog]

I don't think this guy was using the Marines for college, but one day he just decided I don't want to go, after committing to his country that he would. That's crap.

I don't think you can remove his choice to join from the context of the draft, though.

[Wilber]

I don't think this guy was using the Marines for college, but one day he just decided I don't want to go, after committing to his country that he would. That's crap.

I don't think you can remove his choice to join from the context of the draft, though.

If he didn't want to fight it makes you wonder why he joined the Marines. The Marines are a voluntary branch of the US military even during war time and after special forces, are generaly the first into any conflict before the army.

[geoffrey]

I don't think this guy was using the Marines for college, but one day he just decided I don't want to go, after committing to his country that he would. That's crap.

I don't think you can remove his choice to join from the context of the draft, though.

If he didn't want to fight it makes you wonder why he joined the Marines. The Marines are a voluntary branch of the US military even during war time and after special forces, are generaly the first into any conflict before the army.

Exactly. The Marines have been all voluntary forever, thats why they are seen as 'elite' compared to the other services. He choose to be there, and then when he got called to actually do his job, he ran.

Fairweather friends are what they are called.

[mcqueen625]

'Taking our women', meant as a generalization of using our resources and promoting the attitude of shirking ones responsibilities by perpetuating themselves. ie. kids

Personally, I don't view his situation as shirking responsibility so much as we was taking a stand against government coercion. Becaus eif he hadn't signed up, he probably would have bneen drafted anyway, which nullifies the whole "responsibility" angle: how can individuals be responsible for choices they don't make?

I'm sure people serving in our own military won't have much use for this 'respectable grandfather' who's been pretending to be a useful citizen either.

Again: please explainhow this guy has not been a useful ctizen? What information are you privy to that allows you to draw such a conclusion?

The information is that he is and was a cowardly deserter. The point that is impossible to get around is that he joined voluntarily and ran away like the coward he is when the rubber was about to hit the road. Where would our military be today if all of those who joined to get a free education suddenly decided that they were not going to serve just because their unit was being deployed to a war zone. The were well aware when they joined exactly what the military life entailed and they can't suddenly decide they want all of the free benefits but none of the risks, because life is just not like that in either civilian or the military.

That i s just as asinine as when I hear morons say that Canadian troops are peacekeepers, when peacekeeping is just a minicule part of what they do, the same as all troops around the world regardless of what country they come from. The point is that soldiers are trained to fight a war pure and simple, and that involves training in how to kill opposing forces. Anyone who naively thinks that our troops are solely peacekeepers are fooling themselves.

[Black Dog]

The information is that he is and was a cowardly deserter. The point that is impossible to get around is that he joined voluntarily and ran away like the coward he is when the rubber was about to hit the road.

None of which has any bearing whatsoever on his subsequent usefullness as a citizen. Try again.

The were well aware when they joined exactly what the military life entailed and they can't suddenly decide they want all of the free benefits but none of the risks, because life is just not like that in either civilian or the military.

Again: it's impossible to look at this or any similar situation without mentioning the context of conscription. tell me: if he had been a real draft dodger (that is, someone who was drafted and ducked his mandatory service), would anyone have a beef with that? After all: it wouldn't be his choice.

[BubberMiley]

I think cowardice is terribly underrated. With enough cowards in the world, we could eliminate wars completely. The chickenhawks would be upset but they'd eventually understand because they're too cowardly to actually go and fight too. They just talk about it online.

Give the guy a peace prize, I say.

[crazymf]

You win Bub.... ...you know what that means.

What does this fellows actions have to do with me directly? Absolutely nothing. I'll admit that. It's just my humble opinion that our society wasn't built by guys like this. What ticks me off is that people in this country don't think he did anything wrong at all. And BD, yes, he's acting like a good citizen, pretending, but that doesn't wipe out the past. Remember Tookie? He was a role model, if only you could conveniently forget that he was a murderous butcher.

So, while people of strong character make decisions and fight the battles to protect our society, the rest of us can rest easy at night knowing we are safe and able to argue things like this online, and be retarded.

Some of us appreciate the sacrifice the military people make on all our behalves. And on the other side of the coin, cowards like this dude spit in the face of all of us.

Shame on you pal. You're the one who has to live with your actions. I hope they make a big shiny example of you.

[Slavik44]

A few years ago in my grade twelve history class, my teacher invited Canadian Citizen who had faught in Vietnam to come talk to the class. He said he had "volunteered" to join the U.S army, after his lottery number had been drawn so he could have a small element of choice in his future, seing as how he would end up serving anyway. So the first thing I would question is the manner in witch thsi man "Volountered" for serivce, was it truly voluntary?

The second thing I would like to point out, which is something this man mentioned in his presentation, is that many people simply paid doctors to get out of millitary service, in the case of the guy who presented, a couple of his cousins and a number of his friends paid a doctor to be declared medically un fit to serve. I brign this up because many have become so quick to condemn the man in this news story for desertion, but how many thousands of people are there in America today leading productive lives with children and grandchildren all because they paid a doctor some money to avoid serving in the millitary. Atleast the man in thsi news story, left the country. He did not further insult those who died by remaining in America living under the banner of American millitary protection. I think we love to blame people and call them cowards, but at the very least these cowards had enough guts to leave their country and enough integrety to stop living under the American millitary banner, unlike wha tI would assume to be thousands of people who "medically" deserted the American millitary.

[Wilber]

I don't know anything about his motives. I do question his choices. We must all be responsible for our choices and accept their consequences. While I think his arrest does have political implications, traveling back and forth across the border when he hadn't taken advantage of the amnesty was foolhardy.

[Black Dog]

Some of us appreciate the sacrifice the military people make on all our behalves. And on the other side of the coin, cowards like this dude spit in the face of all of us.

Shame on you pal. You're the one who has to live with your actions. I hope they make a big shiny example of you.

Pffff. I'm sure he's happy living with his decision. Thousands of others don't have the same chance; their names are on a big black wall in D.C., another testament to the utter futility of war and the evil old lie.

[geoffrey]

Pffff. I'm sure he's happy living with his decision. Thousands of others don't have the same chance; their names are on a big black wall in D.C., another testament to the utter futility of war and the evil old lie.

Doesn't change the fact that he ran away and deserted his friends and comrades from a volunteer position. What a disgrace.