The World...and it's real size OR Why should we care?

[Nationalist]

So...as we've gained the ability to move about Earth quickly, and now communicate with visuals instantaneously, many people have become convinced that any plight across or planet, should be our concern. I ask...does this make sense?

Why should the western world open its gates and invite the entire population to come here? First of all...our forefathers made the nation's and societies we enjoy. Isn't it encombant on us to further their work...instead of altering it completely? Secondly...most of the impoverished parts of Earth are so as a result of our forefathers. Thus most of these "refugees" Come from places that don't like us all that much. Third...most of these "refugees" Come from failed societies. Is it wise to allow a flood of these people into our society?

Earth's size has not changed. Prior to our technological rise, matters in Ukraine mattered to Ukraine...maybe Poland or Slovakia. Matters in Isreal didn't matter because there was no Isreal...yet.

What I'm fumbling to get at here is...why should I care? 

I don't want my tax money funding squabbles on the other side of the planet. And I seriously don't want my kids going to fight someone else's battles.

Our "legacy" is the creation of the pinnacle of human societal achievement. And we're actively tearing it apart?

Edited August 14, 2024 by Nationalist

[Matthew]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Our "legacy" is the creation of the pinnacle of human societal achievement.

By what measure?

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Matthew said:

By what measure?

Pick one.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Matthew said:

By what measure?

And by "our", we mean ancestors we never met... who would consider us disloyal heathens...

They call it nationalism but it never included FN, Quebecois, Mediterranean peoples, Irish... you name it.

It's not nationalism we buy into, it's tribalism.

[User]

Why should you care if you see your neighbor across the street having his house burnt down by thugs and his wife and children being raped on the street in front of your home?

That isn't your family... none of your business. Just close the blinds and get back to watching TV, right?

There is always a balance in what we can do and how much we can do, but to answer your question:

-Morality. 
-We are a global economy. So much of everything that you do every day is that way because of global trades. That doesn't work when you don't give a crap that Somali pirates are taking cargo ships hostage... 
-We have strategic interests around the globe with strategic alliances


 

[Matthew]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Pick one.

Longevity

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And by "our", we mean ancestors we never met... who would consider us disloyal heathens...

They call it nationalism but it never included FN, Quebecois, Mediterranean peoples, Irish... you name it.

It's not nationalism we buy into, it's tribalism.

Speak for yourself Mike.

Thank you.

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Speak for yourself Mike.

Thank you.

It's an observation, not an expression of MY values or preferences... "We" includes you and me too.  I'm pretty sure you're not a big Quebec booster amirite?

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, Matthew said:

Longevity

Ok longevity.

Question: What would be the result of closing the borders, returning to previous immigration standards, removing restrictions that hamstring industry and allowing industry in Canada...or the USA...to flourish?

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ok longevity.

Question: What would be the result of closing the borders, returning to previous immigration standards, removing restrictions that hamstring industry and allowing industry in Canada...or the USA...to flourish?

Funny, we just had a discussion of Temporary Foreign Workers and what's clear is that industry lobbies heavily to not be hamstrung by immigration rules.

Another observation from me, please don't read into this comment (as many do) that I want open borders etc.

Just an observation that flourishing industry doesn't necessarily equate to better standards of living for Canadians.  

Amazon wants to close down every store in your town. Wal Mart too.  

How are we supposed to create Canadian Walmarts and Amazons?

Food for thought....

[Nationalist]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's an observation, not an expression of MY values or preferences... "We" includes you and me too.  I'm pretty sure you're not a big Quebec booster amirite?

No. You're not. I may criticize les quebecois, but I do value the cultural flavor it adds to our nation. Same goes for the natives. The problem, as I see it, with both, is the extreme measures being taken. We must find a way to assimilate both into mainstream society, while preserving the history and cultures. That will take compromise. But we're that to happen, all sides would benefit greatly.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Funny, we just had a discussion of Temporary Foreign Workers and what's clear is that industry lobbies heavily to not be hamstrung by immigration rules.

Another observation from me, please don't read into this comment (as many do) that I want open borders etc.

Just an observation that flourishing industry doesn't necessarily equate to better standards of living for Canadians.  

Amazon wants to close down every store in your town. Wal Mart too.  

How are we supposed to create Canadian Walmarts and Amazons?

Food for thought....

Industry will flourish with responsible immigration. Prices may rise, but so would incomes and the employment rate by natural osmosis.

Oh and...I dispise Wally mart. We can live without it. Perhaps breath life back into Zellers?

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

1. I may criticize les quebecois, but I do value the cultural flavor it adds to our nation. Same goes for the natives. The problem, as I see it, with both, is the extreme measures being taken. We must find a way to assimilate both into mainstream society, while preserving the history and cultures. That will take compromise. But we're that to happen, all sides would benefit greatly.

1. Ok, a solid take.  So I have known a few "pure" nationalist types in my day and they were ALL for the NDP.

Excluding the influence of America, sometimes including money, was their way forward.  I can't say I agreed with that, but only because it seemed impossible.

Just a comment, not an endorsement...

[Nationalist]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, a solid take.  So I have known a few "pure" nationalist types in my day and they were ALL for the NDP.

Excluding the influence of America, sometimes including money, was their way forward.  I can't say I agreed with that, but only because it seemed impossible.

Just a comment, not an endorsement...

Ya I can understand that. But I can't bring myself to support government run economies. It has never worked, without heavy restriction on the people.

Humans long for freedom. Capitalism...or should I say perhaps Controlled Capitalism...produces the most favorable results.

To do what I suggest, we'd have to alter our sociological direction as well. We'd have to actively promote family, respect and honor.

Things today's Libbies seem to find abhorrent.

[Matthew]

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

What would be the result of closing the border

Rapid destruction of the economy and widespread shortage of food and consumer goods.

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

returning to previous immigration standards

Meaning what, specifically? We live in a world that's headed for centuries of demographic decline and yet millions of people want to live in North America, which overall profoundly benefits from immigration.

40 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

removing restrictions that hamstring industry

Which restrictions? Society naturally has to safegaurd its people from harm caused by powerful businesses and industries, which are guided more by profit than by the common good of a nation.

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Rapid destruction of the economy and widespread shortage of food and consumer goods.

Meaning what, specifically? We live in a world that's headed for centuries of demographic decline and yet millions of people want to live in North America, which overall profoundly benefits from immigration.

Which restrictions? Society naturally has to safegaurd its people from harm caused by powerful businesses and industries, which are guided more by profit than by the common good of a nation.

Pfft...Canada did quite well with "normal" immigration rules.

Your just spewing forth Libbie talking points without even thinking.

North America should not become a dumping ground for the populations of failed states.

And if you had any honor at all...which you apparently don't...you'd have noticed I said Controlled Capitalism. But...being a Libbie means you lie and cheat as a matter of course.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Nationalist

[Matthew]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Pfft...Canada did quite well with "normal" immigration rules.

Your just spewing forth Libbie taling points without even thinking.

North America should not become a dumping ground for the populations of failed states.

And if you had any honor at all...which you apparently don't...you'd have noticed I said Controlled Capitalism. But...being a Libbie means you lie and cheat as a matter of course.

 

Oof these same lines again. I almost thought you were about to engage in thinking and have a real conversation. Keep trying, everyone gets better with practice.

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, User said:

Why should you care if you see your neighbor across the street having his house burnt down by thugs and his wife and children being raped on the street in front of your home?

That isn't your family... none of your business. Just close the blinds and get back to watching TV, right?

There is always a balance in what we can do and how much we can do, but to answer your question:

-Morality. 
-We are a global economy. So much of everything that you do every day is that way because of global trades. That doesn't work when you don't give a crap that Somali pirates are taking cargo ships hostage... 
-We have strategic interests around the globe with strategic alliances


 

Yes well...you can take things to the extreme if you like. In your extreme example, I'd probably endeavor to kill the neighbor's attackers.

But we do not need to worry what Somalians do, nor should we become a dumping ground for the populations of failed states.

4 minutes ago, Matthew said:

 

Oof these same lines again. I almost thought you were about to engage in thinking and have a real conversation. Keep trying, everyone gets better with practice.

Lol..fck off Libbie. You lie and cheat and accuse. That's all you limp noodles are capable of.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Nationalist

[Matthew]

8 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

dumping ground for the populations of failed states.

Many counties experience so-called brain drain because their most educated people immigrate to north America. That's why there are so many engineers, scientists, and doctors not native to America.

On the other end of the spectrum The vast majority of food in North America is produced by Latinos. Meatpacking plants, agricultural work etc. And much of that is seasonal migrant labor.

Most white people would rather be jobless than do these jobs.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Matthew

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Matthew said:

Many counties experience so-called brain drain because their most educated people immigrate to north America. That's why there are so many engineers, scientists, and doctors not native to America.

On the other end of the spectrum The vast majority of food in North America is produced by Latinos. Meatpacking plants, agricultural work etc. And much of that is seasonal migrant labor.

Most white people would rather be jobless than do these jobs.

Ahhh...ok I get ya. You like economic slavery. Robo-twit and you would make a cute couple.

And...if those "educated" migrants stayed put, maybe they could help their own nations and people. Instead they come in droves and have to be reminded that beaches and gas stations are not toilets.

Did I mention skin color? And why do you disparage Caucasians? Are you...

Racist?

[User]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yes well...you can take things to the extreme if you like. In you extreme example, I'd probably endeavor to kill the neighbor's attackers.

But we do not need to worry what Somalians do, nor should we become a dumping ground for the populations of failed states.

You started with the extreme isolationist position here. I did not take them to the extreme, I am using the same extreme to give you the answer to your question. 

So, we don't need to worry that pirates are intercepting global shipping routes? Do I really need to explain to you how that impacts us? Is your position a true 100% isolation one where we stop all global trade and just wall ourselves in?

Accepting these things doesn't mean you have to support open borders. 

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, User said:

You started with the extreme isolationist position here. I did not take them to the extreme, I am using the same extreme to give you the answer to your question. 

So, we don't need to worry that pirates are intercepting global shipping routes? Do I really need to explain to you how that impacts us? Is your position a true 100% isolation one where we stop all global trade and just wall ourselves in?

Accepting these things doesn't mean you have to support open borders. 

Again...in order to make your point, you have to go to extremes. I am not speaking of isolation, I'm speaking of common sense. 

If Somalian pirates attack our boats, we blow the pirates to bits. Blow a few up, the attacks will stop.

Trade is fine...and probably necessary. So what?

Our meddling in the affairs of other nations always winds up creating more problems. Like...9/11.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, Matthew said:

...everyone gets better with practice.

My #1 source of frustration here... folks who stop engaging in good faith when you start questioning their logical foundations.

 

I think that too many on here see discussion as a contest.  If it were, why do we never see any victories?

[Nationalist]

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

My #1 source of frustration here... folks who stop engaging in good faith when you start questioning their logical foundations.

 

I think that too many on here see discussion as a contest.  If it were, why do we never see any victories?

Ya well...forgive me but I am sick and tired of having my posts cherry picked and warped by these planks.

The economy would not tank by adopting responsible border laws...again. that is chickenshit and you know it.

By undoing the knot of Libbie regulations and restrictions, Canada would experience immediate growth. Homes could be built. Taxation could be reduced. People would have the funds they need.

And...Caucasians will work in manual labour. The pay would be higher and prices would rise. But with people working and the economy working, there is a nice offset to that.

But no. Libbies have to lie and cheat to make their unsubstantiated claims that if we don't do what they want...the sky will fall.

Thus @Matthew - if you wanna have a discussion...fine. But do not misquote me again.

Edited August 15, 2024 by Nationalist

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Ya well...forgive me but I am sick and tired of having my posts cherry picked and warped by these planks.

2. The economy would not tank by adopting responsible border laws...again. that is chickenshit and you know it.

 

1. I only ask about your logical foundations and ask you about them when I see a possible contradiction.

2. Speaking of warping... I never said that.