SCC allows kirpans

[geoffrey]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

Maybe I'll go walk around Saudi Arabia with women in short skirts, see how well they accept it. Maybe I'll go to India and slaughter cows in the streets to make my burgers. Or maybe I'll take trophies of wild game on Indian reservations with no intention of using the animal. Or publish Muhammed cartoons under western freedoms in Afghanistan.

Don't you get it. You respect people's cultures by being more like them when you get there. Canadians don't carry weapons in the streets, adapt or leave.

[wellandboy]

All Canadians are protected by Charter in matters of religious beliefs, that all but the most wanton bigot, can accept without difficulty. By your standard there is no limit by which Canada can address issues of public safety if it potentially infringes on an individuals right to carry a lethal weapon.

I highly doubt you've ever even seen one.

Actually, that's not true. I'm familiar with kirpans and and the Sikh community, socially and in business for the last 25 years. Colleagues of mine had miniature kirpans to fufill their religious obligations and two cases reserved wearing a turban for religious and ceromonial occasions. Something that hasn't been discussed is how many Sikhs feel about this. It is not proper for those on both sides of this argument to assume this ruling is accepted wholeheartedly within the Sikh community.

My main point is that I am disappointed that the Sikh community could not find an acceptable solution that meets all religious criteria while not offending other Canadians. The choice to take this to the Supreme Court to resolve this through litigation is part of a greater problem in this country. This seems a more American way of accomplishing ones goals than Canadian. As uncomfortable as that sounds to the left, the Sikh community used the Canadian legal system to accomplish something that could just as easily been resolved outside the courts. We are not richer for this decision, just more litigious.

[Argus]

I guess it comes down to those who believe strongly in religion, versus those who have no religious values whatsoever of their own and are incapable of understanding devotion to one's faith.

Or it comes down to those who have strong values and those who think values are such flexible things we must respect the values of anyone and everyone, no matter how perverse, violent or bestial.

Fanatic Sikhs are like Fanatic Muslims - wild-eyed crazies Canada would be better off expelling rather than trying to accomodate. You cannot accomodate crazy people.

[August1991]

Fanatic Sikhs are like Fanatic Muslims - wild-eyed crazies Canada would be better off expelling rather than trying to accomodate. You cannot accomodate crazy people.

Oh c'mon, Argus. How do you define "crazy"?

By some standards, you and I would be the first to be deported.

It seems this debate has morphed from "public safety" (knives are dangerous) through "religion of violence" (knives symbolize murder) and now to "fanaticism" (icons symbol extremism).

Canada, like most other places in the world, has a mix of different people with differing "world views". Live and let live.

[Argus]

Fanatic Sikhs are like Fanatic Muslims - wild-eyed crazies Canada would be better off expelling rather than trying to accomodate. You cannot accomodate crazy people.

Oh c'mon, Argus. How do you define "crazy"?

By some standards, you and I would be the first to be deported.

It seems this debate has morphed from "public safety" (knives are dangerous) through "religion of violence" (knives symbolize murder) and now to "fanaticism" (icons symbol extremism).

Canada, like most other places in the world, has a mix of different people with differing "world views". Live and let live.

Life and let live is a pretty good philosophy, and one I generally follow myself.

The problem is that when people with that philosophy come up against the demands of those who are violent fanatics in pursuit of their goals the fanatics win ten times out of ten.

[gerryhatrick]

Oh gee, but not all of us can be so extraordinarily broad minded and tolerant and noble as you are. I mean, some of us have, like, standards and stuff.

I see. So Sikhs are below your standards? All very interesting

Your neighbour is a transplanted Indian goat herder who won't cut his hair because God told him not to.

And your a racist piece of sh#t. Oh well.

[gerryhatrick]

You might not be familiar with the saying 'you give an inch, they take a mile'. Do not sell your Canadian values short and bow to the religious pressure. the RCMP is purley a Candian Icon.

What would you know about things Canadian? You're not Canadian.

Would someone like you, who clearly hates everything about Canada, be the one to make that judgement?

I'm miles ahead of you, a person who clearly doesn't have the faintest clue what Canada is about.

Sikhs are a part of Canada. As much as that pains you, it is the reality. If you can't accept it, then may I suggest Utah or Kansas as a place to live out your days?

[gerryhatrick]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

It is not neccessary for the immigrant to change and become like everyone else. And it's not neccessary for the society to change either.

That's the beauty of Canada. Our immigrants make us richer.

Your example of going to an intollerant society and flaunting dress codes is not applicable because Canada IS TOLERANT. Some of the present company excluded, of course.

It makes me proud that our Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY voted to allow this innocuous religious practice in our schools. Nobody has ever been hurt by a Kirpan, and it's pure intollerant fear-mongering at work on the side of the opposition.

[geoffrey]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

It is not neccessary for the immigrant to change and become like everyone else. And it's not neccessary for the society to change either.

That's the beauty of Canada. Our immigrants make us richer.

Your example of going to an intollerant society and flaunting dress codes is not applicable because Canada IS TOLERANT. Some of the present company excluded, of course.

It makes me proud that our Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY voted to allow this innocuous religious practice in our schools. Nobody has ever been hurt by a Kirpan, and it's pure intollerant fear-mongering at work on the side of the opposition.

No one in Canada has been hurt by a registered firearm either, so maybe I'll bring that to school too! It's part of my religion, after all,I'm one of those Ameri--- oops, Albertans!

Kirpan = Weapon = Not Allowed in Schools.

Pretty simple. Real Canadians don't carry weapons. End of story. I don't want to see a Kirpan anywhere in our society, leave your weapons at home please.

Canada is based on peace and order, not self-defense from religious attacks.

[politika]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

It is not neccessary for the immigrant to change and become like everyone else. And it's not neccessary for the society to change either.

That's the beauty of Canada. Our immigrants make us richer.

Your example of going to an intollerant society and flaunting dress codes is not applicable because Canada IS TOLERANT. Some of the present company excluded, of course.

It makes me proud that our Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY voted to allow this innocuous religious practice in our schools. Nobody has ever been hurt by a Kirpan, and it's pure intollerant fear-mongering at work on the side of the opposition.

Okay enough with the court unanimously coting bull shit, I did not F&*@& vote for it so lay off. So no ones been killed with a Kirpan beofre, well since schools are going to allow it more and more skihs will carry it on them and it will only be a matter of time before one loses his temper and kills a 7 year old kid. Your forgeting half these people kill and commit terrorist attacks in the name of their god.

[wellandboy]

It is not neccessary for the immigrant to change and become like everyone else. And it's not neccessary for the society to change either.

That's the beauty of Canada. Our immigrants make us richer.

Yes it is, for instance it imperative that immigrants learn either official language. Along that particular journey it's vital to learn the the laws of the land and helpful to understand the complex social fabric of their new homeland.

Your example of going to an intollerant society and flaunting dress codes is not applicable because Canada IS TOLERANT. Some of the present company excluded, of course.

Canada is a tolerant nation, dress code is not an issue.

It makes me proud that our Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY voted to allow this innocuous religious practice in our schools. Nobody has ever been hurt by a Kirpan, and it's pure intollerant fear-mongering at work on the side of the opposition.

The Supreme Court is unanimously wrong in not placing a caveat on this ruling to address public safety concerns. Your unfettered rightousness on this issue is only surpassed by your inability to see other individuals points of view and immediately label them intolerant , racist, bigots because they don't agree with you. While there hasn't been an incident in a school yet, the message it sends out to young people can have serious ramifications regarding weapons. You have missed the point entirely in this debate, that by protecting individuals religious freedoms (which I support absolutely) we can at the same time protect and respect the remainder of society for the greater good. The court ruling was technically correct but lacked vision and wisdom.

It seems that all too often the emphasis is placed on being right and not on doing the right thing.

[gerryhatrick]

Kirpan = Weapon = Not Allowed in Schools.

Actually no. According to the Supreme Court of Canada (in a UNANIMOUS 8-0 decision) has said that the Kirpan is not a Weapon and is allowed in schools.

For the chip-heads: Kirpan <> weapon <> not allowed in schools.

Sorry about the double negative.

Canada is based on peace and order, not self-defense from religious attacks.

So, there's a risk of a "religious attack" now?

[gerryhatrick]

Your forgeting half these people kill and commit terrorist attacks in the name of their god.

The ignorance and hatred on display here is stunning. Can I ask where you're from?

[politika]

Kirpan = Weapon = Not Allowed in Schools.

Actually no. According to the Supreme Court of Canada (in a UNANIMOUS 8-0 decision) has said that the Kirpan is not a Weapon and is allowed in schools.

For the chip-heads: Kirpan <> weapon <> not allowed in schools.

Sorry about the double negative.

Canada is based on peace and order, not self-defense from religious attacks.

So, there's a risk of a "religious attack" now?

You still demand on fighting this even though you know your wrong, wellandboy is right just because we all here are concerned about the safety of others you label us as bigots and intolerant. So let me guess you must be 12? If not your pretty immature for this forum. So why don't you leave this forum for a while grow up and than we will have a debate on this but for now I don't want to here you say anything about a unanomous rule by the suprme courts again, just because the courts say doesn't mean we have to agree with them and since you are so hell bent on rights you should know what the right of freedom of speech and thought is and that is what everybody here in this thread is exercising.

[politika]

Your forgeting half these people kill and commit terrorist attacks in the name of their god.

The ignorance and hatred on display here is stunning. Can I ask where you're from?

its not hatred its freedom of speech.

Not that it is any of your business but I am from Canada and live in city called Winnipeg if you read my profile I wouldn't have to waste time typing this out.

[geoffrey]

Kirpan = Weapon = Not Allowed in Schools.

Actually no. According to the Supreme Court of Canada (in a UNANIMOUS 8-0 decision) has said that the Kirpan is not a Weapon and is allowed in schools.

For the chip-heads: Kirpan <> weapon <> not allowed in schools.

Sorry about the double negative.

Canada is based on peace and order, not self-defense from religious attacks.

So, there's a risk of a "religious attack" now?

So whatever the Supreme Court says is absolutely true all of the time? Funny that your against their belief that people should be able to pay for health care if they don't want to wait, but say that because they say it, its absolutely correct on this matter.

Heres the real issue. A Kirpan is a dagger. That is a fact. Daggers are weapons. That is a fact.

As I posted earlier, from a Sikh source, a Sikh is to use his Kirpan to attack those that try to oppress his freedoms. It's a symbol of military victory through violent means against a government. It's an obligation of Sihk's to learn how to use the Kirpan as an effective killing weapon.

That definitely means its a weapon. So weapons and peaceful society don't mix. I don't want to see them out of their houses. I can't carry a gun, you can't carry your dagger/sword. We are all better off.

[Argus]

You might not be familiar with the saying 'you give an inch, they take a mile'. Do not sell your Canadian values short and bow to the religious pressure. the RCMP is purley a Candian Icon.

What would you know about things Canadian? You're not Canadian.

Would someone like you, who clearly hates everything about Canada, be the one to make that judgement?

I'm miles ahead of you, a person who clearly doesn't have the faintest clue what Canada is about.

Sikhs are a part of Canada. As much as that pains you, it is the reality. If you can't accept it, then may I suggest Utah or Kansas as a place to live out your days?

So if I have what passes for logic down right here, foreigners are Canadians, no matter how odd or wierd, or violent their beliefs, but people born and raised here aren't Canadians unless they agree with you, and they should leave Canada and move somewher else.

It's always fascinating to see a person with so little intelligence that he's been completely brain wiped by the politically correct propaganda put out by the media and schools, and who has managed, therefore, to become almost as much a fanatic as those he defends.

Answer me this: Why do you hate Canada so much?

[cybercoma]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

Maybe I'll go walk around Saudi Arabia with women in short skirts, see how well they accept it. Maybe I'll go to India and slaughter cows in the streets to make my burgers. Or maybe I'll take trophies of wild game on Indian reservations with no intention of using the animal. Or publish Muhammed cartoons under western freedoms in Afghanistan.

Don't you get it. You respect people's cultures by being more like them when you get there. Canadians don't carry weapons in the streets, adapt or leave.

It's sad to see that you'd sell out your culture like that and you are asking that Canada act more like Saudi Arabia....really, sad actually.

[cybercoma]

I guess it comes down to those who believe strongly in religion, versus those who have no religious values whatsoever of their own and are incapable of understanding devotion to one's faith.

Or it comes down to those who have strong values and those who think values are such flexible things we must respect the values of anyone and everyone, no matter how perverse, violent or bestial.

Fanatic Sikhs are like Fanatic Muslims - wild-eyed crazies Canada would be better off expelling rather than trying to accomodate. You cannot accomodate crazy people.

Carrying a kirpan is not violent or bestial. Stabbing someone in the face with it is.

Fanatic Sikhs are like fanatic muslims are like fanatic canadians are like fanatic americans are like fanatic people.

[Argus]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

It is not neccessary for the immigrant to change and become like everyone else. And it's not neccessary for the society to change either.

That's the beauty of Canada. Our immigrants make us richer.

"Oh my God, Marge! I hugged an Indian man! I'm so... so wordly and enlightened! I feel like such a world traveller, such a sophisticate! I feel almost as noble as when I let that gay man fondle my bottom without complaining! Can we have something foreign for dinner tonight! Please! Is the paleness fading yet? Do I look less bland and dull?!"

[Argus]

Kirpan = Weapon = Not Allowed in Schools.

Actually no. According to the Supreme Court of Canada (in a UNANIMOUS 8-0 decision) has said that the Kirpan is not a Weapon and is allowed in schools.

And of course, this nitwit would be the first to be screaming in shrill complaint if conservatives stacked the court the way the Liberals have, and the court found against one of his politically correct causes.

"The court was stacked!" he'd cry. "They don't represent real Canadians!"

And of course, the fact 95% of Canadians disagree about letting kids carry knives to school sails right past him without ever penetrating his thick bone head.

[cybercoma]

...it will only be a matter of time before one loses his temper and kills a 7 year old kid. Your forgeting half these people kill and commit terrorist attacks in the name of their god.

Talk about this biggest pile of prejudice and bigotry I've ever seen on this forum....wow.

[Argus]

I guess it comes down to those who believe strongly in religion, versus those who have no religious values whatsoever of their own and are incapable of understanding devotion to one's faith.

Or it comes down to those who have strong values and those who think values are such flexible things we must respect the values of anyone and everyone, no matter how perverse, violent or bestial.

Fanatic Sikhs are like Fanatic Muslims - wild-eyed crazies Canada would be better off expelling rather than trying to accomodate. You cannot accomodate crazy people.

Carrying a kirpan is not violent or bestial. Stabbing someone in the face with it is.

Fanatic Sikhs are like fanatic muslims are like fanatic canadians are like fanatic americans are like fanatic people.

Except there's a whole lot more of them per capita. That's why we need to get them to adjust to Canada and get more in tune with our society and culture. Letting them carry around foot long daggers is not the way.

We also missed a great chance to show them they can't act here the way they act at home when we let the Sikh community through pressure brought to bear on Indian politicians in BC, help a Sikh temple elder and his sister get away with having a girl murdered. Perhaps now that there's been a change of government these two scumbags might be dragged out of their temple and into a prison cell.

[cybercoma]

Let's place bets. The next high school rampage will be commited by which of the following?

a) Sikh kid with a kirpan

White middle class kid who has been ostracized his whole life

c) Digruntled teacher who hates their provincial government.

[cybercoma]

Except there's a whole lot more of them per capita. That's why we need to get them to adjust to Canada and get more in tune with our society and culture. Letting them carry around foot long daggers is not the way.

We also missed a great chance to show them they can't act here the way they act at home when we let the Sikh community through pressure brought to bear on Indian politicians in BC, help a Sikh temple elder and his sister get away with having a girl murdered. Perhaps now that there's been a change of government these two scumbags might be dragged out of their temple and into a prison cell.

We can only hope that those scumbags will be punished to the full extent of the law; however, that has nothing to do with whether or not kirpans should be banned.