SCC allows kirpans

[gerryhatrick]

"Oh my God, Marge! I hugged an Indian man! I'm so... so wordly and enlightened! I feel like such a world traveller, such a sophisticate! I feel almost as noble as when I let that gay man fondle my bottom without complaining! Can we have something foreign for dinner tonight! Please! Is the paleness fading yet? Do I look less bland and dull?!"

Did your brain break? Sorry.

[gerryhatrick]

Exactly. They have every obligation to become like the rest of us. That's what happens when you immigrate, you don't have their society change for you!

Maybe I'll go walk around Saudi Arabia with women in short skirts, see how well they accept it. Maybe I'll go to India and slaughter cows in the streets to make my burgers. Or maybe I'll take trophies of wild game on Indian reservations with no intention of using the animal. Or publish Muhammed cartoons under western freedoms in Afghanistan.

Don't you get it. You respect people's cultures by being more like them when you get there. Canadians don't carry weapons in the streets, adapt or leave.

It's sad to see that you'd sell out your culture like that and you are asking that Canada act more like Saudi Arabia....really, sad actually.

Second that. Very sad to see such anti-Canadian bigotry passed off as a defense of Canadian culture.

[cybercoma]

What's even sadder is that gerry hatrick is agreeing with me.

[Riverwind]

And of course, the fact 95% of Canadians disagree about letting kids carry knives to school sails right past him without ever penetrating his thick bone head.

Argus, this has been going on for years in BC schools and has not created any controversy nor have there been any serious problems. It is impossible to justify a ban on something that has never caused any problems.

[geoffrey]

Let's place bets. The next high school rampage will be commited by which of the following?

a) Sikh kid with a kirpan

b ) White middle class kid who has been ostracized his whole life

c) Digruntled teacher who hates their provincial government.

C

And of course, the fact 95% of Canadians disagree about letting kids carry knives to school sails right past him without ever penetrating his thick bone head.

Argus, this has been going on for years in BC schools and has not created any controversy nor have there been any serious problems. It is impossible to justify a ban on something that has never caused any problems.

Hmm.. for example registered ownership of automatic weapons. Hasn't hurt anyone in Canada. Lets do it!

And, let me carry my automatic weapon through the streets. Why? Because it hasn't hurt anyone in Canada!

[Biblio Bibuli]

It is impossible to justify a ban on something that has never caused any problems.

If anything it AVOIDS problems. For the Sikh kids anyway, because NO kid is stupid enough to pick on a kid who's got a knife hanging off of his waist when there are plenty of kids to pick on who don't.

[gerryhatrick]

Hmm.. for example registered ownership of automatic weapons. Hasn't hurt anyone in Canada. Lets do it!

And, let me carry my automatic weapon through the streets. Why? Because it hasn't hurt anyone in Canada!

What stupid, pointless analogies.

[politika]

Second that. Very sad to see such anti-Canadian bigotry passed off as a defense of Canadian culture.

Hey gerryhatrick do you liek the word biggot or somthing, I swear you have used it a 100 times in this same fricken thread Do you even know what it means?

[Hiei]

Tsk. This is such an odd thread.

The argument seems to consist of plenty of hate based straw man fallacies. Argus- You just seem to be making up stuff and crediting it your oponent. How could you look at a sentence saying how immigrants enrich Canada, and warp it into some vaguely homesexual insult? subconcius tendencies perhaps.

If it really bothers you that the supreme court might not let you take a gun to school, why not actually try it instead of just posturing about it? And generalizations are just bad form. You honestly believe all Sikhs are goat herding terrorists?

I think your hate hinders your debating skill.

---

I don't know why you all seem outraged that someone can bring an ornamental knife to school. If someone is stabbed by a kirpan, rejoice, because then you can seize the oppurtunity to abolish the religion you hate. If the highly more likely happens, and all is uneventful, why would you even care.

It's not as if Canada has much of a culture to be diluted anyway.

[politika]

Tsk. This is such an odd thread.

The argument seems to consist of plenty of hate based straw man fallacies. Argus- You just seem to be making up stuff and crediting it your oponent. How could you look at a sentence saying how immigrants enrich Canada, and warp it into some vaguely homesexual insult? subconcius tendencies perhaps.

If it really bothers you that the supreme court might not let you take a gun to school, why not actually try it instead of just posturing about it? And generalizations are just bad form. You honestly believe all Sikhs are goat herding terrorists?

I think your hate hinders your debating skill.

---

I don't know why you all seem outraged that someone can bring an ornamental knife to school. If someone is stabbed by a kirpan, rejoice, because then you can seize the oppurtunity to abolish the religion you hate. If the highly more likely happens, and all is uneventful, why would you even care.

It's not as if Canada has much of a culture to be diluted anyway.

Argus make good points, youon the otherhand lack common sense, this is a debate about the Kirpan not about peoples debating skills.

Canada would have a culture but it is diluted with foreigners coming in telling us what their going to do and when they are going to do it. Soon we will be a country just like these foreigners came from where Canada is divied and we blow eachother to threads.

[Hiei]

Tsk. This is such an odd thread.

The argument seems to consist of plenty of hate based straw man fallacies. Argus- You just seem to be making up stuff and crediting it your oponent. How could you look at a sentence saying how immigrants enrich Canada, and warp it into some vaguely homesexual insult? subconcius tendencies perhaps.

If it really bothers you that the supreme court might not let you take a gun to school, why not actually try it instead of just posturing about it? And generalizations are just bad form. You honestly believe all Sikhs are goat herding terrorists?

I think your hate hinders your debating skill.

---

I don't know why you all seem outraged that someone can bring an ornamental knife to school. If someone is stabbed by a kirpan, rejoice, because then you can seize the oppurtunity to abolish the religion you hate. If the highly more likely happens, and all is uneventful, why would you even care.

It's not as if Canada has much of a culture to be diluted anyway.

Argus make good points, youon the otherhand lack common sense, this is a debate about the Kirpan not about peoples debating skills.

Canada would have a culture but it is diluted with foreigners coming in telling us what their going to do and when they are going to do it. Soon we will be a country just like these foreigners came from where Canada is divied and we blow eachother to threads.

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

[geoffrey]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

Nope, just stopping the public from carrying weapons around in cities.

You really are ignorant if you believe that people like us that are just concerned for children's safety are the same as those found in the KKK.

[gerryhatrick]

Nope, just stopping the public from carrying weapons around in cities.

You really are ignorant if you believe that people like us that are just concerned for children's safety are the same as those found in the KKK.

The Supreme Court of Canada unanimously disagrees with you. I'll go with them instead, thanks.

And all this talk about "Canadian culture" being threatened does sound conspicuously like the KKK. I'm sure they defended (and still do defend) themselves by claiming to be concerned about "American culture".

[Riverwind]

Hmm.. for example registered ownership of automatic weapons. Hasn't hurt anyone in Canada. Lets do it!

Can you give me an example of a long establish religion that expects it followers to carry automatic weapons as a sign of their faith? I didn't think so. This issue is about how to deal with conflicting rights - not the so called right to carry weapons. The faith based desire for Sikhs to carry these symbols is a well established fact so we, as a society, should make reasonable accommodations. Sikhs are not asking to carry the weapons onto airplanes nor did the SCC rule that we had to let them do so. The ruling says that in the case of schools the safety risk is not high enough to justify an outright ban, although, some restrictions may be put on them (e.g. they must be worn under any clothing).

[Hiei]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

Nope, just stopping the public from carrying weapons around in cities.

You really are ignorant if you believe that people like us that are just concerned for children's safety are the same as those found in the KKK.

Well then, feel free to post all the Canadian kirpan related injuries/deaths that have occured thusfar. What's that? There are none? But there might be in the future? 'cause they belong to the same religion as some terrorists? And knives, even ones blatantly displayed in a sheath, and therefore less dangerous then the concealed knifes people carry around in many schools- could feasibly hurt a child?

We should also ban chemistry from schools! I heard some of those things can be hazardous to our children! And violent movies and videogames, because if a child sees them, they will be warped into a killer. And pens! Those things can sting pretty badly if you get poked in the eye.

Children's safety is a fine smokescreen if you want to improve education and healthcare or something meaningful instead of squabbling about knifes.

But don't use it as a facade for racial hatred.

[wellandboy]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

But don't use it as a facade for racial hatred.

This is nice. Another one who calls anybody who disagrees with them racist.

[Hiei]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

But don't use it as a facade for racial hatred.

This is nice. Another one who calls anybody who disagrees with them racist.

I really havn't commented on the actual issue. I could care less. I just don't like how people are dealing with the issue. I mostly refer to Argus when I say racist.

Read his posts and tell me's hes not racist, but concerned for safety.

He was calling all Sikhs "goat herding terrorists", who if you merely lived by them you were just as bad as the worst bomber for not driving them away. Among other comments.

But really, in a debate about freedom of minorities, if one who disagrees with me does so by attempting to abolish all other cultures in Canada, I guess that would make them racist. Funny how that works out sometimes.

Incidentally, way to completely ignore all the comments in my post that wasn't an insult.

[cybercoma]

Argus make good points, youon the otherhand lack common sense, this is a debate about the Kirpan not about peoples debating skills.

Canada would have a culture but it is diluted with foreigners coming in telling us what their going to do and when they are going to do it. Soon we will be a country just like these foreigners came from where Canada is divied and we blow eachother to threads.

Foreigners aren't telling YOU how to live their life. On the otherhand, you're telling them how they have to act. They just want to be left alone, to practice their faith and culture as they please, just as you are allowed to practice your faith and cultural heritage as your parents have taught you.

[cybercoma]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

Nope, just stopping the public from carrying weapons around in cities.

You really are ignorant if you believe that people like us that are just concerned for children's safety are the same as those found in the KKK.

How can you possibly be concerned for kids safety when these things have never been used in schools in a violent way by Sikhs? It's slippery slope at its worst. First they're allowed to carry these kirpans in sheath, sewn into a pouch that's sewn into clothing, NEXT THING YOU KNOW THEY'RE MURDERING CHILDREN.

Don't be so asinine.

[geoffrey]

I'm not concerned because some of them are terrorists, thats not it at all. Any colour or religion of people that asked for these rights would get the same response from me. This isn't racial.

I'm concerned that children can now carry daggers in schools under the guise of religious freedom. Unacceptable.

I am also concerned that Sikh's carry daggers around with them everyday. Just as I'm concerned about the gangsters with guns and knives. No weapons, its not neccessary!

[cybercoma]

What good points were those? I must have missed them among all the racist slurs.

And as far as your comments on culture....I suppose if you lived 100 years ago you'd be banning oriental immigrants and burning crosses to protect your 'canadian ideals' wouldn't you.

But don't use it as a facade for racial hatred.

This is nice. Another one who calls anybody who disagrees with them racist.

Actually, he outlined how they're not anymore hazardous than any other item you can find in a school. The problem is lunatics that would try to stab or kill kids in school, not the specific things that could be used to do so.

Therefore, the only possible reason for any other stance is racial hatred. Sure that's going too far, put it's blatantly obvious to anyone who has read anything about Sikh's that those opposed to the Supreme Court ruling know nothing about the culture. It's also obvious from the comments by some people in this thread that they're less than interested in showing a little tolerance by learning about the subject before deciding to condemn these people.

Take your prejudiced ideas about the kirpan (such as, someone carries one, therefore they will use it to hurt our children) and your total ignorance and unwillingness to actually learn about the faith and culture of these people and you have racial hatred.

[cybercoma]

I'm not concerned because some of them are terrorists, thats not it at all. Any colour or religion of people that asked for these rights would get the same response from me. This isn't racial.

I'm concerned that children can now carry daggers in schools under the guise of religious freedom. Unacceptable.

I am also concerned that Sikh's carry daggers around with them everyday. Just as I'm concerned about the gangsters with guns and knives. No weapons, its not neccessary!

Seriously, can you be anymore ridiculous?

You're comparing a religious relic to gangsters who carry weapons to be used specifically for hurting and killing.

Sikh's carry them as a sign of faith and devotion to their religion.

Gangstas carry them to murder people.

bit of a stretch.

[geoffrey]

I'm not concerned because some of them are terrorists, thats not it at all. Any colour or religion of people that asked for these rights would get the same response from me. This isn't racial.

I'm concerned that children can now carry daggers in schools under the guise of religious freedom. Unacceptable.

I am also concerned that Sikh's carry daggers around with them everyday. Just as I'm concerned about the gangsters with guns and knives. No weapons, its not neccessary!

Seriously, can you be anymore ridiculous?

You're comparing a religious relic to gangsters who carry weapons to be used specifically for hurting and killing.

Sikh's carry them as a sign of faith and devotion to their religion.

Gangstas carry them to murder people.

bit of a stretch.

So why can't they carry a little miniture one, like lets say, pin sized? Why? Because it needs to be an effective killing weapon to be considered 'Holy'.

... a state’s power comes through its ability to limit the use of weapons by its subjects. The right to carry weapons is one that is solely open to the state, and to state authorities. Citizens that wish to carry arms, are either not allowed to at all, or are severely restricted in this right, and forced to carry licenses, have to fulfill strict requirements, have severe restrictions placed on the type of weapons they may own, and are limited in how they may go about carrying their weapons. Without this right, a state loses its legitimacy, and its right to govern. And it is here that the true revolutionary aspect of wearing a Kirpan comes to the fore.

http://www.sikhs.ca/kirpan/kirpanarticle.html

I'm showing all of this information from Sikhs on the topic but you all still are blind to what they say about the Kirpan themselves!! Read my post near the start that had many quotations from real deal Sihk's about the Kirpan.

This Sikh, with his writings on the Canadian Sikh's website, says that the Kirpan is a symbol of revolution and disobidence with the system!

[Argus]

Tsk. This is such an odd thread.

The argument seems to consist of plenty of hate based straw man fallacies. Argus- You just seem to be making up stuff and crediting it your oponent. How could you look at a sentence saying how immigrants enrich Canada, and warp it into some vaguely homesexual insult? subconcius tendencies perhaps.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you? Or does that matter?

It's not as if Canada has much of a culture to be diluted anyway.

There's that contempt for Canada we all know and recognize from the gushy, mushy, multiculturalists. Go and hug a Sikh. I'm sure you'll get a squishy feeling inside and feel all cosmopolitan and sophisticated!

[Argus]

Except there's a whole lot more of them per capita. That's why we need to get them to adjust to Canada and get more in tune with our society and culture. Letting them carry around foot long daggers is not the way.

We also missed a great chance to show them they can't act here the way they act at home when we let the Sikh community through pressure brought to bear on Indian politicians in BC, help a Sikh temple elder and his sister get away with having a girl murdered. Perhaps now that there's been a change of government these two scumbags might be dragged out of their temple and into a prison cell.

We can only hope that those scumbags will be punished to the full extent of the law; however, that has nothing to do with whether or not kirpans should be banned.

Has to do with the tolerance for religious fanaticism and cultural violence within the ultra-orthodox Sikh community.