Toronto Muslims protest

[Leafless]

Well, here we go again.

But this time with a difference it's happening in Canada HOME OF THE MODERATE MUSLIM, I would like to think and the way most Canadian Muslims like to describe themselves.

Muslim's must know Canada is part of the free world and that Denmark is also part of the free world and allowed to protest volatile actions carried out in this case by fundamentalist Muslim's in the form of what every one in the free world considers harmless--cartoons.

But 1,550 hundred protesting Muslims is a heafty enough number to be supporting Muslim fanatics who are responsible for the reason why the cartoons were published initially.

Do MODERATE Muslims actually support criticism of fundamentalists Muzlim's HEAD BOSS, UNFORTUNATELY also part of the Muslim religion and known as Muhammad?

It seems some Muslim's refuse to accept the analogy that Muhammad can be good or bad depending on the stance of the religon's believer's or followers.

http:/www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060211/muslim_rallies_060211/20060211?hub=Canada

[Melanie_]

Here's a quote from Leafless' link.

Muslims in Toronto clogged a busy downtown street outside the Danish Consulate, carrying signs and chanting praise of Allah and Muhammad.

Speakers said the cartoons were the worst possible insult to Muslims and Canadians should understand why they are so offended and hurt.

"We want to include all our members and friends in Canada to be part of what we are feeling today," one speaker told the crowd.

"To understand the hurt that we feel, to understand the injury that we feel."

Dozens of police in riot gear and others on horseback were ready to step in, but weren't needed at the end. The police presence was beefed up because similar demonstrations around the world have turned violent.

Seems to me they were just exercising their right to free speech, just as those who published the cartoons did. Peaceful protests are a legitimate form of expression in our country, aren't they?

[newbie]

Seems to me they were just exercising their right to free speech, just as those who published the cartoons did. Peaceful protests are a legitimate form of expression in our country, aren't they?

But where do you draw the line with that? Should immigrants and new Canadians be protesting, say, issues in their original countries? I don't know; I'm kinda iffy on this.

[Melanie_]

What limits are we willing to set on free speech, then? Who gets to speak freely, on what issues, in what contexts? I understand your concern, newbie, but it is a slippery slope. Remember the words of Some Great Thinker - "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[Michael Hardner]

Seems to me they were just exercising their right to free speech, just as those who published the cartoons did. Peaceful protests are a legitimate form of expression in our country, aren't they?

You are correct, Melanie.

It's the same as Christians who protested The Last Temptation of Christ.

EDITED TO ADD: Or for that matter, religious people of all stripes protesting the non-religious state's definition of marriage.

[Argus]

Here's a quote from Leafless' link.

Muslims in Toronto clogged a busy downtown street outside the Danish Consulate, carrying signs and chanting praise of Allah and Muhammad.

Speakers said the cartoons were the worst possible insult to Muslims and Canadians should understand why they are so offended and hurt.

"We want to include all our members and friends in Canada to be part of what we are feeling today," one speaker told the crowd.

"To understand the hurt that we feel, to understand the injury that we feel."

Dozens of police in riot gear and others on horseback were ready to step in, but weren't needed at the end. The police presence was beefed up because similar demonstrations around the world have turned violent.

Seems to me they were just exercising their right to free speech, just as those who published the cartoons did. Peaceful protests are a legitimate form of expression in our country, aren't they?

Of course they are. That's not the point. These are the "moderate" Muslims. Yes, they're not rioting. But yes, they also believe - just as the "radicals" do, that WE must obey THEIR religious prohibitions. And remember, these are the more educated Muslims, educated to know that the government can't do anything about what a newspaper says, particularly one in Denmark. But how would they react if it were Toronto newspapers printing these cartoons and they could get at them?

I don't regard anyone as a moderate who believes people who are not members of their religion must nevertheless abide by its prohibitions. It's like Jews demonstrating in the thousands, demanding we stop selling and eating Pork because it's against their religious laws.

[Melanie_]

These protesters were peacefully trying to promote understanding of their perspective. They were insulted by the cartoons, and were letting it be known. I really don't see a problem with this.

[seabee]

What about deniers of the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis! Though I don't believe they are right, I have been unable to se their case, as denial of the Holocaust is seen as a crime.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't regard anyone as a moderate who believes people who are not members of their religion must nevertheless abide by its prohibitions. It's like Jews demonstrating in the thousands, demanding we stop selling and eating Pork because it's against their religious laws.

Or getting people to accept religious definitions of marriage, or protesting depictions of Jesus in film...

It's all the same thing. I understand when religious people of any faith is insulted by a slurr against their prophets, and I think it's something that's facile and unfair to them (in both the case of the comic, or The Last Temptation) but blasphemy is free expression and needs to be allowed.

[newbie]

What limits are we willing to set on free speech, then? Who gets to speak freely, on what issues, in what contexts? I understand your concern, newbie, but it is a slippery slope. Remember the words of Some Great Thinker - "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Yeah, except to yell FIRE in a theatre. I'm well aware of all that. I'm referring more to situations where hate is promoted, like a KKK march. Or a protest of Hindus against Sheiks of an action on their own country. Where, in fact, would we draw the line? Or is ANY and ALL protest okay?

[geoffrey]

I don't regard anyone as a moderate who believes people who are not members of their religion must nevertheless abide by its prohibitions. It's like Jews demonstrating in the thousands, demanding we stop selling and eating Pork because it's against their religious laws.

Or getting people to accept religious definitions of marriage, or protesting depictions of Jesus in film...

It's all the same thing. I understand when religious people of any faith is insulted by a slurr against their prophets, and I think it's something that's facile and unfair to them (in both the case of the comic, or The Last Temptation) but blasphemy is free expression and needs to be allowed.

Besides that marriage is a religious definition and not a civil one. Thats like protesting renaming all bread Holy Communion, pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Let 'em protest, as long as no fires are lit and no people are hurt, giv'er. Doesn't mean you have to believe or listen to any of the crap they are selling to ya.

[Leafless]

geoffrey

You wrote- " I don't regard anyone as a moderate Muslim who believes people who are not members of their religion must nevertheless abide by it's prohibitons."

Totally agreed in what you said.

But this is problamatic to the Muslims and this is why Islam should be banned in Canada.

Moderate Muslims do not understand that most major religions especially in modern Western democracies do not harbour the type of beliefs that promote violence no matter what the cause or promote religious laws above the laws of the land such as what Muslims and Shariah the Muslim code of religious law.

This is because social diversities and education other than religon has removed the emphasis concerning religon as an absolute social guide.

In a lot of democratic countries Muslims simply have not become exposed to a view containing a more civilized logic concerning harmful functions of their own religions. But this is not the fault of any host countries that harbour Arab Muslim immigrants including Canada.

Muzlims are responsible for their actions but hide behind democratic rights as if this somehow justifies their cause to potentially induce a riot and be the source of harm or even death.

If Muzlims cannot shed their strict religious codeprior to immigrating to a free democratic country maybe they should stay home as this type of behavior exceeds any level of expected tolerance by any free democratic country which could induce repercussions against the Muslim community.

[crazymf]

Let's just say I agree 100%. And then some.

I can't think of anything nice to say about them so I'll shut up.

[Leafless]

seabee

You wrote- " What about deniers of the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazi's! Though I don't believe they are right, I have been unable to see their case as denial of the Holocaust is seen as a crime."

I really don't either and this topic is controversial but nevertheless advocates rules for one group and none for the other groups concerning hate crimes.

This is something the federal government should clear up in it's own mind and act accordingly in a fair and just manner.

[Shakeyhands]

I don't regard anyone as a moderate who believes people who are not members of their religion must nevertheless abide by its prohibitions. It's like Jews demonstrating in the thousands, demanding we stop selling and eating Pork because it's against their religious laws.

Or getting people to accept religious definitions of marriage, or protesting depictions of Jesus in film...

It's all the same thing. I understand when religious people of any faith is insulted by a slurr against their prophets, and I think it's something that's facile and unfair to them (in both the case of the comic, or The Last Temptation) but blasphemy is free expression and needs to be allowed.

Besides that marriage is a religious definition and not a civil one. Thats like protesting renaming all bread Holy Communion, pretty reasonable if you ask me.

Let 'em protest, as long as no fires are lit and no people are hurt, giv'er. Doesn't mean you have to believe or listen to any of the crap they are selling to ya.

nice... Christian then?

[wellandboy]

There is no declaration in the Qur'an about pictoral depictions of the Prophet. This is part of Abrahamic tradition that is similar to orthodox Jews not depicting Yahweh. This is the part of Muslim argument I have a problem with. I would certainly be more sympathetic if this were part of the Qur'an. Like women wearing the Hijab and the blatant discrimination of women in the Muslim world, traditions fall into this nebulus world between the actual written religious laws and frankly midieval social norms.

Certainly these individuals have the right to protest, but, the protesters must be honest about what they are protesting about.

[mcqueen625]

And Canadian's aren't offended by radical Islamist's beheading Christians, and burning their churches? I'm not sure that the Christian congregations in Nigeria had anything to do with these cartoons but radical Islamist's used the cartoons as an excuse to murder and burn. If that is what Allah and Mohammed stand for than I want nothing to do with that religion or the people who practice this type of protesting.

When we talk about intolerance, it seems to me that Islam hates Jews, they hate Christians, they hate Buddists, in fact they hate any religion that is not Islam. Now we have those nutcases in Iran who have just proclaimed that they want to see the anilation of Isreal. We also have the stupid people of Palestine electing to office a terrorist organization who's whole mission in life is to murder Jews, because for some warped sense they feel that they have been put on earth to kill people of other faiths. They talk about one religion as if their's is the only religion that is right. sorry but my religion, Roman Catholic teaches peace to ALL peoples, it does not have any buts or excepts when talkiing about other religions. Radical Muslims for some reason feel it is their sworn duty to spread their religion and culture around the world whether we want it or not, because their God is the only true God. If we could get past the hating, I'm sure that Jews, Muslims, Christians, and peoples of other faiths are really worshipping the same God, we are just calling that God by different names.

Rather than supporting these radical Muslims who strap bombs to themselves and walk into a crowded place and blowing themselves up in an effort to kill as many innocent bystanders as they can, we should be condeming their actions, and the whole civilized world should be shunning these people. These radicals are not rational civilized people, they are simply terrorist's and they should be treated as such. Imagine Kadhr and the rest of his family moving to Canada, going back to the Middle East for the sole purpose of killing Westerner's, and then returning to Canada and praising those radicals who flew planes into the towers and the Pentagon to kill as many as possible. These are not people who should be allowed to remain in Canada. They should be deported uncerimoniously place on a plane with one-way ticket's back to their place of birth, never to allowed inside this country again.