Has Ottawa outflanked the Provinces?

[Tony Hladun]

To form the government in Canada you need the votes of three cities...Vancouver, Toronto (GTA) and Montreal.  The Liberals have learned this and they've outflanked the Provinces by dealing directly with the cities.  Even here in Alberta the Mayors of Calgary and Edmonton are left leaning (LIberal) and Ottawa is using its housing policy to cut the Provincial Government out.  Forget the Constitutional split of Federal and Provincial powers by creating a Federal to Municipal power structure with the PM in control.  Putin and Xi would be proud of Trudeau (well his Liberal handlers at least).

Edited April 14, 2024 by Tony Hladun

[herbie]

Oh do show your adoration for that foot-dragging stubborn. obstinate contrarian fishwife you've got for a Premier.
If she should lose power, you can always move to Surrey BC and have a Mayor you'd love.

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

To form the government in Canada you need the votes of three cities...Vancouver, Toronto (GTA) and Montreal.  The Liberals have learned this and they've outflanked the Provinces by dealing directly with the cities.  Even here in Alberta the Mayors of Calgary and Edmonton are left leaning (LIberal) and Ottawa is using its housing policy to cut the Provincial Government out.  Forget the Constitutional split of Federal and Provincial powers by creating a Federal to Municipal power structure with the PM in control.  Putin and Xi would be proud of Trudeau (well his Liberal handlers at least).

well that's not remotely accurate.

Even if i take your statement to mean GREATER vancouver and greater toronto it's still not true.The seat tally there would not even give you a minority on its own.

Greater montreal has 10 seats, Toronto itself has 25,   Vancouver and the whole northern lower mainland (bby, surrey Richmond etc  has only 15

That's 50 Seats.  You need 170 to win.

They are large voter blocks. they're important for sure, and doing well in them is a key step towards winning but no - you don't need those three cites. You could in fact not get a seat in ANY of those cities and still win.

While it is true that trudeau tries to del direct with the cities on SOME specific issues, it's not really a 'flank'.  ANd it doesn't tend to win him a lot of votes to be hoenst - the cities wind up taking the credit.

At the end of the day the cities don't actually have any power at all under the constitution only provinces do.  Basically provinces create cities and municipalities by vesting a portion of their own power in local gov't. The feds can only go against the provinces wishes so much and then they get stepped on, and trudeau did get a bit of a talking to about that.

[Tony Hladun]

CdnFox, it certainly depends on the areas you pick and I was looking at this map.

https://electionsanddemocracy.ca/sites/default/files/ERMap_44.jpg

There appears to be more than fifty seats in the three windows for the cities.  The cities by themselves may not be a majority but they're a big piece of the total.

There's enough anger in this Federal Government and the fact that Provinces do have Constitutional rights that, when upheld by the Courts, are ignored by Ottawa that my proposition may not be all that paranoid.

 

Edited April 15, 2024 by Tony Hladun

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Tony Hladun said:

CdnFox, it certainly depends on the areas you pick and I was looking at this map.

https://electionsanddemocracy.ca/sites/default/files/ERMap_44.jpg

There appears to be more than fifty seats in the three windows for the cities.  The cities by themselves may not be a majority but they're a big piece of the total.

 

 

Not really - it might look that way at a glance but when  you actualy add them up it's about right.

Again - there can be no formal 'federal to municiple infrastructure" because the cities have no power constitutionally.

The feds can make agreements with cities to a very limited degree, but even then they have to be careful or they're going to wind up being fiscally responsible for what cities are now. 

I see where you were going with it - it does make sense at first blush and there IS in fact a LITTLE of that which goes on so it's not impossible but the feds do NOT generally speaking want anything to do with having to fund specific cities where they could wind up stuck with it or on the butt end of a lawsuit saying ALL cities should have gotten it.

 

And you missed the REAL Target. They're not interested in the cities. They want to go to the people directly. Look what they're doing - "hey - if the carbon tax goes no more refund cheque and you'll starve".   They literally took people's money away - and gave some of it back (and pocketed the rest) and tried to convince people that they were "giving" them something they need which will be taken away from them.

They want to make people dependent on hand outs and gov't housing and all of that - so they can threaten that it'll all be taken away if conservatives ever get in.

They want to control or have a hand in your daycare, your medicare, your refund checks and child benefits, etc etc. They want you to think of THEM as being the only reason you can survive.

Providing for a person's every need is the surest way to enslave them.  THAT is their end goal.

 

[Tony Hladun]

CdnFox, you're right that Ottawa wants to get to people directly.  The cities desperately want and need money and since there are no Constitutional rules Ottawa can offer the cities money but still have it look like Ottawa dollars.  It also helps that Ottawa can run deficits (print money) so the cities are very obliging participants.  With the Provinces there are Constitutional rules that impose a layer between Ottawa and the people.  Ottawa doesn't get votes and control if it looks like it's Provincial money.  Also the Provinces can't "print" money so they run into debt problems.  (And I know it's the BOC that prints the money, but look who appoints the BOC Board..you dance with those that brung you.)

Canadian Confederation is failing.  Confederation hasn't worked recently because Provinces have different economies and populations (MP's elected).  Ottawa is staging a power grab and will we like the result?  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

CdnFox, you're right that Ottawa wants to get to people directly.  The cities desperately want and need money and since there are no Constitutional rules Ottawa can offer the cities money but still have it look like Ottawa dollars.  It also helps that Ottawa can run deficits (print money) so the cities are very obliging participants.  With the Provinces there are Constitutional rules that impose a layer between Ottawa and the people.  Ottawa doesn't get votes and control if it looks like it's Provincial money.  Also the Provinces can't "print" money so they run into debt problems.  (And I know it's the BOC that prints the money, but look who appoints the BOC Board..you dance with those that brung you.)

Canadian Confederation is failing.  Confederation hasn't worked recently because Provinces have different economies and populations (MP's elected).  Ottawa is staging a power grab and will we like the result?  

I don't think you understand - cities ARE the province.  Where does a city get the right to have any authority from? The provincial power granted by the constitution.

And provinces can absolutely go into debt same as the feds i assure you

If the feds step on provincial powers without the provinces buying in then there will be problems. The feds cannot bypass the provinces without the province's agreement.

 

[Tony Hladun]

Thanks for saying what I just said.

Edited April 16, 2024 by Tony Hladun

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Tony Hladun said:

Thanks for saying what I just said.

Did i? I thought you'd said:

The cities desperately want and need money and since there are no Constitutional rules Ottawa can offer the cities money

Which is untrue as i pointed out.  The constitutional rule is that the  province is the cities. That's where their power comes from and the feds can't bypass that without the province agreeing to it.

But - sorry for saying what you said. 🙄