Your not allowed to kill your kids?

[geoffrey]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...lper060127.html

Apparently Canada does still have some morality, if only a little dab of it.

She didn't get jail time and she should have (we can't make this seem ok). But really, who gets jail time in Canada anymore anyways, this is probably the harshest punishment the courts have layed down in years.

The Criminal Code provides a 14-year maximum sentence for the offence. Houle's lawyer argued that she acted out of compassion and should not be imprisoned. The Crown left the decision to the judge.

[Leafless]

geoffrey

You wrote- " Apparently Canada still does have some morality"

As rotten as it may sound doctors regularly give orders 'NOT TO RESUSCITATE' and no one is punished.

Who says someones life is not worth living even if some kind of help provides an extra week or month or whatever.

As far as I am concerned orders 'not to resuscitate' should be illegal and is as controversial as euthanasia.

It is for this reason I provide a slight leaning towards euthansia but only under strict medical guidence with proffesionals admistrating the lethal injection and only as a DEFINITE last resort.

This particular case though is 'out of bounds' as it was administered in secrecy with officials knowing nothing about it until after the fact.

As much as I hate to say it penalities should be applied in this case as obviously everyone cannot go around killing their loved ones for a reason THEY believe is justified.

[crazymf]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

Of course there's a lot of factors such a a terminal disease and such, but I still believe that this person was thinking only of himself and not his mother and how she'd have to live with it. Hey, all you suicide jockies, get some balls and go off yourself somewhere else by yourself if you have to do that. Don't leave a trail of hurt people using up our resources in court.

Of course what do they care, they're dead. Idiots. All of them.

What to do with this woman though? Simple, she admitted to premeditated murder. Death penalty. Oh yeah, we don't have that.

[seabee]

FYI

In Montréal, this case has made the news for quite a while. It is a complex case.

During the supper-time news, both TVA (french-speaking; daily viewer ship, well over a million people) and CTV (english-speaking) ran a phone in poll, both with roughly the same question: Do you agree with the judges sentence. On TVA, the yes side was over 90%; on CTV, 75%.

The judgement is 32 pages long; it is available at:

jugement

[tml12]

FYI

In Montréal, this case has made the news for quite a while. It is a complex case.

During the supper-time news, both TVA (french-speaking; daily viewer ship, well over a million people) and CTV (english-speaking) ran a phone in poll, both with roughly the same question: Do you agree with the judges sentence. On TVA, the yes side was over 90%; on CTV, 75%.

I was just listening to local radio over dinner...I don't think anyone argued she should have gone to jail.

Death with dignity is not unpopular with the Quebec population...in fact, the last Parliament a Bloc MP introduced a death with dignity bill that I think died when the government fell but I don't remember.

[geoffrey]

I just can't get around how killing people really improves their life...

Too many problems with this type of killing to ever 'legalize' it. Hopefully no one tries to lead us down that slippery slope.

[pharmer]

Making dying illegal? If a person chooses to take their own life or asks a close friend to aid them in taking their life or, the most controversial, euthanasia. What place does the law have in these affairs? This is an induvidual's life and they should not be subject to opinion or criticism directed at their life or death?

What to do with euthanasia? No blanket (one size fits all) law or penalty is just (case by case assessment?) as it is a subjective desicion it wouldn't be logical to apply the same penalty in all cases.

[geoffrey]

Making dying illegal? If a person chooses to take their own life or asks a close friend to aid them in taking their life or, the most controversial, euthanasia. What place does the law have in these affairs? This is an induvidual's life and they should not be subject to opinion or criticism directed at their life or death?

What to do with euthanasia? No blanket (one size fits all) law or penalty is just (case by case assessment?) as it is a subjective desicion it wouldn't be logical to apply the same penalty in all cases.

Killing someone can never be legal because your always acting in their ultimate worst interest.

I figure if they want to suicide it, we can't make this illegal (not much can be done when they are dead). But for anyone to help is most definitely murder.

This lady thought about it, and then killed her son (yes, she put the bag over his head and tied it up). Didn't go seek help, didn't go seek legal advice, nothing. Just killed him. How do we really know he wanted to die, I'm sure he was on tons of meds for the pain and stuff.

[pharmer]

Making dying illegal? If a person chooses to take their own life or asks a close friend to aid them in taking their life or, the most controversial, euthanasia. What place does the law have in these affairs? This is an induvidual's life and they should not be subject to opinion or criticism directed at their life or death?

What to do with euthanasia? No blanket (one size fits all) law or penalty is just (case by case assessment?) as it is a subjective desicion it wouldn't be logical to apply the same penalty in all cases.

Killing someone can never be legal because your always acting in their ultimate worst interest.

I figure if they want to suicide it, we can't make this illegal (not much can be done when they are dead). But for anyone to help is most definitely murder.

This lady thought about it, and then killed her son (yes, she put the bag over his head and tied it up). Didn't go seek help, didn't go seek legal advice, nothing. Just killed him. How do we really know he wanted to die, I'm sure he was on tons of meds for the pain and stuff.

Absolutely agree. You could never know for sure if he wanted to live or die so the desicion the mother made to kill her son can never be justified. When does it cross the line between murder to mercy? Or is it all one large grey area?

[Riverwind]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

You have no concept of how the obligations to care for a loved can destroy another person's life - emotionally and financially. If you are terminally ill and require extraordinary care then it is extremely selfish to cling to life for the sake of living.

Obviously, this is a complex issue and sanctioning assisted suicide will encourage some people to choose that option even though they do have a chance of recovery. However, I have no patience for the 'all life is sacred' arguement - I feel every person has a right to choose when and how they will die and the state should support people who want to make that choice.

[Yaro]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

No, the ultimate act of selfishness is forcing someone to live against there will because it satisfies your twisted sense of value. But I understand now that self determination isn't really big with the modern conservative.

I just can't get around how killing people really improves their life...

Too many problems with this type of killing to ever 'legalize' it. Hopefully no one tries to lead us down that slippery slope.

It doesn't improve it, and its not about improving it. Self Determination, the ability to decide what happens to ones own life, get it?

[geoffrey]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

You have no concept of how the obligations to care for a loved can destroy another person's life - emotionally and financially. If you are terminally ill and require extraordinary care then it is extremely selfish to cling to life for the sake of living.

Obviously, this is a complex issue and sanctioning assisted suicide will encourage some people to choose that option even though they do have a chance of recovery. However, I have no patience for the 'all life is sacred' arguement - I feel every person has a right to choose when and how they will die and the state should support people who want to make that choice.

If your considering financial concerns to the point of making a whether or not to live judgement, then there is seriously something much more deeply wrong than I originally thought on this topic.

[Riverwind]

If your considering financial concerns to the point of making a whether or not to live judgement, then there is seriously something much more deeply wrong than I originally thought on this topic.

One of the reasons I save money is to ensure my kids have opportunities in life. Spending my savings to keep me alive a few months longer is like flushing it down the toilet. I see no nobility in clinging to life for the sake of life. If faced with a certain, prolonged and painful death I feel I have a right to put my affairs in order and end my life on my terms. The gov't has no right to interfer.

[Montgomery Burns]

Yaro:

No, the ultimate act of selfishness is forcing someone to live against there will because it satisfies your twisted sense of value. But I understand now that self determination isn't really big with the modern conservative.

No, the ultimate act of selfishness is killing someone (like Houle did if you had read the article) just because they are an "inconvenience".

But then again the modern liberal has never shied away from killing humans who are an inconvenience to them. Like the 100,000 babies that are killed annually in Canada, the nearly 1 million killed annually in the US, and of course, the hundreds of millions of innocents killed by leftist tyrants in the 20th Century.

And why would they shy away from killing them? They (liberals) think they are God and they hold the power of life over the rest of the peons in society.

[geoffrey]

If your considering financial concerns to the point of making a whether or not to live judgement, then there is seriously something much more deeply wrong than I originally thought on this topic.

One of the reasons I save money is to ensure my kids have opportunities in life. Spending my savings to keep me alive a few months longer is like flushing it down the toilet. I see no nobility in clinging to life for the sake of life. If faced with a certain, prolonged and painful death I feel I have a right to put my affairs in order and end my life on my terms. The gov't has no right to interfer.

Ok, I see your point, very fair.

Though I wouldn't agree to have you get one of your kids to kill you, if you don't have the physical capacity to kill yourself, then do you really have the judgement capacity to ask for it? How can we be sure?

I'm not implying anything personal with my next point, so please don't take it that way.

There are probably more than a handful of kids out there that'd love to kill off their sick parents and say it was assisted suicide, just in order to get at the will. This raises real concerns over how and where do we draw the line?

[Riverwind]

There are probably more than a handful of kids out there that'd love to kill off their sick parents and say it was assisted suicide, just in order to get at the will. This raises real concerns over how and where do we draw the line?

I agree 100%. That is why we need a system that ensures that people are not emotionally blackmailed into killing themselves by ungrateful children. This can be done by providing counciling and getting the opinion of a least two doctors and probably by requiring the person involved to make a personal appeal before a judge.

What I don't agree with is an outright ban on assisted suicide.

[geoffrey]

There are probably more than a handful of kids out there that'd love to kill off their sick parents and say it was assisted suicide, just in order to get at the will. This raises real concerns over how and where do we draw the line?

I agree 100%. That is why we need a system that ensures that people are not emotionally blackmailed into killing themselves by ungrateful children. This can be done by providing counciling and getting the opinion of a least two doctors and probably by requiring the person involved to make a personal appeal before a judge.

What I don't agree with is an outright ban on assisted suicide.

I don't know, why can't they do it themself? If someone can't pull their own trigger, I really have a reasonable doubt to believe they don't know what they are doing.

We are in agreement over our concerns with exploiting this.

[newbie]

There are probably more than a handful of kids out there that'd love to kill off their sick parents and say it was assisted suicide, just in order to get at the will. This raises real concerns over how and where do we draw the line?

This brings to mind the Terri Schavio case. Right after that I updated my will, made a living will and personal directive so as to have a record of my intentions. I think there are plenty of safeguards here in Canada to prevent the assisted suicide thing. And if it does happen, it is dealt with on a case by case basis. When my dad was dying he didn't want any heroic efforts made to revive him or prolong his life. And because he was suffering from bone cancer the Doctor gave him extra morphine near the end. Is that euthanasia? No. It's called compassion.

[Yaro]

No, the ultimate act of selfishness is killing someone (like Houle did if you had read the article) just because they are an "inconvenience".

I am not so much posting this to reply as much as to ridicule, I mean only MB could come up with something this asinine and state it with such conviction. MB is pretty much the one guy here that can take an argument that he has absolutely no footing in and just reach around and pull this out of his ass.

Oh and just so you know MB, stop scratching yourself because every time you do you destroy the exact same cells that make up a fetus. You also better stop masturbating, or having proactive sex every day at least because if you don't your murdering your valuable swimmers.

[CCGirl]

No, the ultimate act of selfishness is killing someone (like Houle did if you had read the article) just because they are an "inconvenience".

I am not so much posting this to reply as much as to ridicule, I mean only MB could come up with something this asinine and state it with such conviction. MB is pretty much the one guy here that can take an argument that he has absolutely no footing in and just reach around and pull this out of his ass.

Oh and just so you know MB, stop scratching yourself because every time you do you destroy the exact same cells that make up a fetus. You also better stop masturbating, or having proactive sex every day at least because if you don't your murdering your valuable swimmers.

Amen!

[CCGirl]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

Of course there's a lot of factors such a a terminal disease and such, but I still believe that this person was thinking only of himself and not his mother and how she'd have to live with it. Hey, all you suicide jockies, get some balls and go off yourself somewhere else by yourself if you have to do that. Don't leave a trail of hurt people using up our resources in court.

Of course what do they care, they're dead. Idiots. All of them.

What to do with this woman though? Simple, she admitted to premeditated murder. Death penalty. Oh yeah, we don't have that.

Wrong. Once you get to the point of hopelessness to kill yourself, you are convinced your death will be a relief from all the pain and suffering, whether mental or physical. Suicide is not selfish if you are the one dying.

What right do we have to force people to live with pain? :angry:

This needs to be debated and we need to enact legislation so there are safeguards in place.

[Riverwind]

I don't know, why can't they do it themself? If someone can't pull their own trigger, I really have a reasonable doubt to believe they don't know what they are doing.

Blowing your brains out with a hand gun is a pretty messy way to die, however, that is the only option available today. Doctors should be allowed to prescribe leathal doses of medication but the person in question must be the one who takes it. If someone is severely incapacitated then you can set up a IV that can be triggered with a button press. However, it should be the one dies that presses the button.

[CCGirl]

There are probably more than a handful of kids out there that'd love to kill off their sick parents and say it was assisted suicide, just in order to get at the will. This raises real concerns over how and where do we draw the line?

I agree 100%. That is why we need a system that ensures that people are not emotionally blackmailed into killing themselves by ungrateful children. This can be done by providing counciling and getting the opinion of a least two doctors and probably by requiring the person involved to make a personal appeal before a judge.

What I don't agree with is an outright ban on assisted suicide.

I don't know, why can't they do it themself? If someone can't pull their own trigger, I really have a reasonable doubt to believe they don't know what they are doing.

We are in agreement over our concerns with exploiting this.

This fellow had MS, other people have Lou Gehrig's disease where their mind is fully functioning yet your body has deteriorated to the point here you become incapacitated. If you can't move....well it would be hard to kill yourself.

EDIT: Putting this woman in prison is not the answer. The judge did the right thing!

[Montgomery Burns]

I am not so much posting this to reply as much as to ridicule, I mean only MB could come up with something this asinine and state it with such conviction. MB is pretty much the one guy here that can take an argument that he has absolutely no footing in and just reach around and pull this out of his ass.

Oh and just so you know MB, stop scratching yourself because every time you do you destroy the exact same cells that make up a fetus. You also better stop masturbating, or having proactive sex every day at least because if you don't your murdering your valuable swimmers.

Yaro, your message board incompetence is an inspiration to botched lobotomy patients everywhere. Rumor has it that you are almost incomprehensible in person (as revealed by your desperate urge to babble nonsensically on message boards.) No doubt, this rumor is true.

I suppose I should have some sympathy for your handicap. You are obviously paralyzed from the neck up. Generally, there is nothing wrong with having nothing worthwhile to say --unless you insist on saying it. Well, you're certainly thoughtless; I just wish that you were keyboardless, too.

You are about as entertaining as a child's inflatable punching toy. You bop it, it springs back, you bop it again and you forget it ever existed. It slowly deflates in an unused corner, then one day you throw it away. You have the warm personal charm of a millipede and about as much class as a bucket of mucous lodged on top of a dumpster in a Blue Light district of Amsterdam. Please do not light up a cigarette as I fear that the methane gas where your head resides will cause a massive explosion.

In the future, if you have something to say, just shut up.

[Montgomery Burns]

Suicides are the ultimate act of selfishness. I am always confused about why people would do such a thing. It's the people left behind that have to suffer when someone exits life.

Of course there's a lot of factors such a a terminal disease and such, but I still believe that this person was thinking only of himself and not his mother and how she'd have to live with it. Hey, all you suicide jockies, get some balls and go off yourself somewhere else by yourself if you have to do that. Don't leave a trail of hurt people using up our resources in court.

Of course what do they care, they're dead. Idiots. All of them.

What to do with this woman though? Simple, she admitted to premeditated murder. Death penalty. Oh yeah, we don't have that.

Wrong. Once you get to the point of hopelessness to kill yourself, you are convinced your death will be a relief from all the pain and suffering, whether mental or physical. Suicide is not selfish if you are the one dying.

What right do we have to force people to live with pain? :angry:

This needs to be debated and we need to enact legislation so there are safeguards in place.

I don't think you are a fool. But then, what's my own humble opinion against thousands of others?