Hamas win Palestinian elections

[Black Dog]

Minitants asked to form new government

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas asked Hamas on Friday to form a new government after his vanquished Fatah Party rejected a role in the Cabinet and Israel ruled out peace talks in what could be the first steps to isolate the militant group after its election victory.

Acting Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni appealed to the international community not to legitimize a Palestinian government led by Hamas, saying elections are not a "whitewash" for terrorist groups.

Gee I thought democracy in the Middle East was a god thing. Maybe now some folks will stopequating elections with democracy.

Also:

Hamas election was a vote against corruption

Hamas winning over there is not because they are big over there. It's because people need changes," said Ali Hussain, 53, of Burbank, who hails from a small village outside of Ramallah. "Nobody appreciates corruption, especially in a country that's been occupied for so long."

Chicago Lawn resident Mustafa Rabeea, 45, agreed, saying, "I don't know about Hamas, but . . . [this government] did not do enough for the people."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? I wonder if Hamas asked voters to Stand Up for Palestine....

[tml12]

Minitants asked to form new government

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas asked Hamas on Friday to form a new government after his vanquished Fatah Party rejected a role in the Cabinet and Israel ruled out peace talks in what could be the first steps to isolate the militant group after its election victory.

Acting Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni appealed to the international community not to legitimize a Palestinian government led by Hamas, saying elections are not a "whitewash" for terrorist groups.

Gee I thought democracy in the Middle East was a god thing. Maybe now some folks will stopequating elections with democracy.

Also:

Hamas election was a vote against corruption

Hamas winning over there is not because they are big over there. It's because people need changes," said Ali Hussain, 53, of Burbank, who hails from a small village outside of Ramallah. "Nobody appreciates corruption, especially in a country that's been occupied for so long."

Chicago Lawn resident Mustafa Rabeea, 45, agreed, saying, "I don't know about Hamas, but . . . [this government] did not do enough for the people."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? I wonder if Hamas asked voters to Stand Up for Palestine....

This is NOT good.

[YankAbroad]

All it says to me is that the average Palestinian voter is more concerned about killing Jews and expressing his "rage" than about getting a country for himself.

[Argus]

All it says to me is that the average Palestinian voter is more concerned about killing Jews and expressing his "rage" than about getting a country for himself.

I think much of the vote for Hamas was of the same sort as the votes for the Parti Quebecois, that is, a vote against the corrupt incompetents in power, and a vote for a party people think can get things done, and not so much a vote for seperatism. Or in the case of Hamas, for all out war against the Israelis.

[Black Dog]

All it says to me is that the average Palestinian voter is more concerned about killing Jews and expressing his "rage" than about getting a country for himself.

Did you read the second link? That theme is being repeated quite a bit: it seems the average Palestinian voter is tired of Fatah's corruption and indolence and is willing to give the alternative a shot, despite its radical leanings. We just went through a similar housecleaning in Canada.

I wonder, given Hamas's adherence to the year long ceasefire with Israel and its toned-down rhtoric during the campaign, if ths isn't the start of a new political dimension to resistance in the vein of Sinn Fein and the IRA.

[theloniusfleabag]

Don't forget, HAMAS was created by Israel to undermine support for the PLO. What I find funny is that the US et al. scream 'democracy' as though it would solve everyone's ills, and then snivel when they don't like the results. Kind of like when the Model T came off the production line, the sales pitch was "You can have it in whatever colour you want, as long as it's black". So, Palestine seems to have no democratic option.."You can vote for anyone you want, but we'll only recognize Fatah".

[Black Dog]

Good article here:

How do you like your democracy now, Mr. Bush?

In his press conference on Thursday, Bush portrayed the Palestinian elections in the same way he depicts Republican Party victories over Democrats in the United States: "The people are demanding honest government. The people want services. They want to be able to raise their children in an environment in which they can get a decent education and they can find healthcare."

...

In a mystifying self-contradiction, Bush trumpeted that "the Palestinians had an election yesterday, the results of which remind me about the power of democracy." If elections were really the same as democracy, and if Bush was so happy about the process, then we might expect him to pledge to work with the results, which by his lights would be intrinsically good. But then he suddenly swerved away from this line of thought, reverting to boilerplate and saying, "On the other hand, I don't see how you can be a partner in peace if you advocate the destruction of a country as part of your platform. And I know you can't be a partner in peace if you have a -- if your party has got an armed wing."

So Bush is saying that even though elections are democracy and democracy is good and powerful, it has produced unacceptable results in this case, and so the resulting Hamas government will lack the legitimacy necessary to allow the United States to deal with it or go forward in any peace process.

...

Despite Hamas' founding position that the Israeli state is illegitimate, violence is not foreordained. A Hamas leader, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Associated Press that his party would continue what he called its year-old "truce" if Israel did the same. "If not," he added, "then I think we will have no option but to protect our people and our land." More fundamentally, even Hamas' charter could change. As the ICG points out, Hamas "has accepted the principle that there is no religious prohibition against negotiating or co-existing with Israel and that the provisions in its charter providing for Israel's destruction are not indelible."

[YankAbroad]

Well, if the democratically-elected Hamas wages terror war with the Israelis, it undermines the argument that Palestinians are being unfairly targeted. They're endorsing an altogether different concept.

As for what Bush thinks, lord knows he doesn't think very often, all the snarky "ah ha!s" from the left aren't going to resolve the situation either. The glorifying and romanticising of Palestinian terrorists by certain elements of the left in the west has done nothing but exacerbate the situation there as well.

[tml12]

Well, if the democratically-elected Hamas wages terror war with the Israelis, it undermines the argument that Palestinians are being unfairly targeted. They're endorsing an altogether different concept.

As for what Bush thinks, lord knows he doesn't think very often, all the snarky "ah ha!s" from the left aren't going to resolve the situation either. The glorifying and romanticising of Palestinian terrorists by certain elements of the left in the west has done nothing but exacerbate the situation there as well.

Agreed, agreed, agreed YankAbroad. The left must find this funny, the neocons are ready to drop the bomb, and the left is wetting the bed, and the neocons are looking for the army.

Time for a third party to shake things up in the states.

[crazymf]

I think this will be the most interesting development in the Israel conflict that we have ever seen and may pave the way to understanding the terrorist radical extremist mentality.

Just think, the Pals have given an agenda to a terrorist organisation. No longer are they merely against the establishment, but actually have to form the establishment and try to progress from there.

In other words, they've been complaining about the status quo for so long that the people are giving them a chance to crap or get off the pot. If the Hamas does nothing progressive, then they will lose all credibility with their supporters and also do major harm to any terrorist agenda across the globe, politically speaking.

I also wondered right away if we are seeing a parallel to the Ireland situation.

The ball is in Hamas' court. I'm all eyes to see if they drop it.

This could be a start of something really good for the area.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear crazymf,

In other words, they've been complaining about the status quo for so long that the people are giving them a chance to crap or get off the pot. If the Hamas does nothing progressive, then they will lose all credibility with their supporters

Very true. I don't think they will lose that much credibility, though. Especially if HAMAS gets boycotted by the major nations. They can claim perfidy, and that it wasn't their fault. It would be better that the major nations do recognize a democratically elected gov't, so that if it does fail, there can't be any excuses. And if it works, there might actually be peace.

[crazymf]

Dear crazymf,

In other words, they've been complaining about the status quo for so long that the people are giving them a chance to crap or get off the pot. If the Hamas does nothing progressive, then they will lose all credibility with their supporters

Very true. I don't think they will lose that much credibility, though. Especially if HAMAS gets boycotted by the major nations. They can claim perfidy, and that it wasn't their fault. It would be better that the major nations do recognize a democratically elected gov't, so that if it does fail, there can't be any excuses. And if it works, there might actually be peace.

Phew, had to go to the dictionary for that one. 'Perfidy', good one..

One word, paradox.

Democratically elected terrorist government. Like I said, I'm watching for the matter to hit the antimatter.

[Montgomery Burns]

Wow. The lefties are having orgasmic delights at the results of a terrorist organization winning elections (we have newfound hope!) in the Terrortories. It appears that they can't wait for Hamas to ramp up the killing of those neocon Joooish women and children in that gol-durned *spit* democracy *spit* called Israel.

Good ole BD and his "militants".

I think the UK's leftwing Guardian sums up the moral bankruptcy of the left perfectly here:

Murdering a Palestinian politician by a long-range attack that is bound also to kill innocent civilians is morally and legally no better than a suicide bomb on a bus.

:angry:

Btw, does anyone know if Hitler won?

And to top it off, the worst US President of the 20th Century (worst US President ever?) Jimmy Carter is calling for more funding of this death cult of displaced Arabs. YUCK!

[Argus]

Don't forget, HAMAS was created by Israel to undermine support for the PLO. What I find funny is that the US et al. scream 'democracy' as though it would solve everyone's ills, and then snivel when they don't like the results.

Democracy only really works when you have an intelligent, knowledgeable electorate. If not, well, Africa is full of failed democracies. It is clear that any true election in a Muslim nation will return a religious based Muslim government. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any way to bypass this step on a nation's evolution towards freedom. And people do learn from it. I believe if Iran were a true democracy now the power of the Mullah's would be severely limited. If Hamas takes over and screws up - as they almost certainly will, then the next Palestinian election - presuming they allow one, will be considerably different.

[YankAbroad]

Well, I'm not willing to endorse the screaming of the right wing, either. How many American neocons who are wringing their hands over the election results are willing to support asylum for people in the Palestinian territories who are oppressed regularly by the Hamas government and PLO?

*chirping crickets*

[Shady]

How do you like your democracy now, Mr. Bush?

This is a PERFECT example of the braindead attitude that permeates the kook left. It matters not what the event or issue is, as long as they percieve some damage to President Bush. They're like kids in a candy store. I've never seen such a group of immature "adults". Apparently, with Hamas being elected by Palestinians, the left now has proof that democracy doesn't belong in the middle east. It's a message that all the left can be proud of! LOL

How many American neocons who are wringing their hands over the election results are willing to support asylum for people in the Palestinian territories who are oppressed regularly by the Hamas government and PLO?

What in the world are you talking about?

*chirping crickets*

Why, are you outside?

[YankAbroad]

What in the world are you talking about?

Think about it, rather than "feel" about it.

If Hamas gains power, and exercises the theocratic tendencies they're likely to, they are going to oppress the shit out of big groups of their own people.

Are you going to support asylum in Canada or the USA for those people? Or are you just going to say "tough, sucks to be you?"

If it's the latter, I hope you're not planning on campaigning against Hamas based on human rights -- that would be chutzpah even by Karl Rove's standards.

[Black Dog]

This is a PERFECT example of the braindead attitude that permeates the kook left. It matters not what the event or issue is, as long as they percieve some damage to President Bush. They're like kids in a candy store. I've never seen such a group of immature "adults". Apparently, with Hamas being elected by Palestinians, the left now has proof that democracy doesn't belong in the middle east. It's a message that all the left can be proud of! LOL

Actually, you ijit, it's proof that democracy and elections are't interchangeable concepts, as you and all your neocon pals have been pratteling on about since you first creamed your jeans over the Purple Finge rof Democracy in Iraq.

Democracy depends not just on elections but on a rule of law, on stable institutions, on basic economic security for the population, and on checks and balances that forestall a tyranny of the majority. Elections in the absence of this key societal context can produce authoritarian regimes and abuses as easily as they can produce genuine people power. Bush is on the whole unwilling to invest sufficiently in these key institutions and practices abroad. And by either creating or failing to deal with hated foreign occupations, he has sown the seeds for militant Islamist movements that gain popularity because of their nationalist credentials.

[scribblet]

Hope none of you are members of the Rotary Club or the Lions, because if you read their own you might get a surprise. e.g. that Hamas believes the Rotary and Lions Clubs are "secret societies" that are part of the international Zionist conspiracy.

"For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained," states Article 22 of the charter. "They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realization of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there."

The section goes on to suggest the Zionists were also behind World War I, the League of Nations, World War II and the United Nations.