Pedophiles waiting in line....

[betsy]

So what's the point you're trying to make by working so hard to make this association, Betsy?

I've posted my point somewhere in the topic, BubberMiley.

[BubberMiley]

Aw, I don't want to read everything. Reading about pedophiles on the Internet creeps me out. But from the title of the topic, I assume your point is that pedophiles are waiting in the I-want-to-marry-(insert noun) line to marry children? I find radically slippery-slope arguments intellectually dishonest, in that they're based on the premise of "if we make a rational decision now, we will never be able to make one again."

[betsy]

Aw, I don't want to read everything. Reading about pedophiles on the Internet creeps me out. But from the title of the topic, I assume your point is that pedophiles are waiting in the I-want-to-marry-(insert noun) line to marry children? I find radically slippery-slope arguments intellectually dishonest, in that they're based on the premise of "if we make a rational decision now, we will never be able to make one again."

If you don't read...how can you understand where I'm coming from? It's hard enough trying to have my point reach those who had read...and yet still just dismiss my concern as just another right-wing propaganda.

Right wing propagandas exists...the same way that left-wing propagandas also do exists.

But mine, is a concern.

Yes I am a Christian...and God, I pray that there never comes the day when I'll be afraid to admit that openly. But being a Christian does not mean that my concern is not warranted.

I feel that I have a legitimate concern for our children and our youth. I feel bound to come out and speak...if not as a Christian....then, as a concerned citizen.

[BubberMiley]

If you don't read...how can you understand where I'm coming from?

So was I wrong in my summation?

[Yaro]

How about dealing with the pedophile problem in the Catholic Church before trying to attack the gay community over it?

I mean seriously, if you want to do something about pedophile that’s great, its a huge world wide problem that I would be willing to put a great deal of resources into.

First let’s talk about the Catholic Church and start putting those responsible in jail along with all those that have had knowledge of it without doing anything about it. That should take care of a good 20% of it or so in the western world.

Second we can go and set some watchdog groups to watch over soldiers in every war zone on earth and make sure that no sexual abuse of little girls happens.

Third we can start hitting all those companies who import underage girls to use as party favors.

Fourth we can start going after all the sexual tourists; of course many of those are rather powerful political and corporate figures so I guess this is going to be one hell of a dust up.

NAMBLA are a bunch of twisted morons, they have nothing to do with the gay rights movement and statistics support the complete separation of the two groups. This post is the work of someone with an obvious inability to separate there irrationalities, it’s a rather sad little play on the obvious emotionalism that pedophilia brings to the fore.

[tml12]

As a Catholic (born...I am not extemely religious though I believe in a higher power) here, I must admit that the problem in the Church needs to be solved before we say anything about anyone in the gay community...

[BubberMiley]

Also, we can legalize and regulate prostitution in this country to eliminate the black market and avoid having 14-year-old hookers on street corners of what once were pleasant, family neighbourhoods.

[geoffrey]

Also, we can legalize and regulate prostitution in this country to eliminate the black market and avoid having 14-year-old hookers on street corners of what once were pleasant, family neighbourhoods.

Or just get the 14 year old hookers off the street... legalising problems doesn't end the problem.

[BubberMiley]

Making them illegal hasn't done anything but create another source of income for the Hell's Angels and keep the whole business beyond the reach of regulation.

[geoffrey]

No, law enforcement has been so underfunded that they don't have the resources to combat the problem, which actually wouldn't be that hard to deal with if they could have a dedicated unit in each major city.

[BubberMiley]

And they're too busy busting pot-smokers.

[geoffrey]

And they're too busy busting pot-smokers.

Just need to bust the dealers. No pot, no pot smokers.

Or very little pot and the price gets impossibly high.

[betsy]

How about dealing with the pedophile problem in the Catholic Church before trying to attack the gay community over it?

I mean seriously, if you want to do something about pedophile that’s great, its a huge world wide problem that I would be willing to put a great deal of resources into.

First let’s talk about the Catholic Church and start putting those responsible in jail along with all those that have had knowledge of it without doing anything about it. That should take care of a good 20% of it or so in the western world.

I am pained...and disillusioned by the sex scandal and findings that rocked the Church recently. Of course if we want to fix something, we have to understand the problem. So in answer to your suggestions, let me present these to you.

Like I said before, it is hard to read and it may cause some pain to others.

How Many Priests and Bishops are Homosexual? 11 2

Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30% of the priesthood is homosexually oriented. Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation. He told the Boston Globe: "If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."

http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/ar...al-priests1.htm

How Many Priests and Bishops are Homosexual? 21 2

Robert Sungenis: Sex, Lies and Video Tape:

During a press conference in Rome on April 24, 2002, the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Bishop Wilton Gregory, was interviewed regarding the homosexual problem in the Catholic Church. In his own words he said: "...it is an ongoing struggle to make sure that the Catholic priesthood is not dominated by homosexual men" (Newsweek, May 6, 2002, p. 23). The implications of this statement are obvious. Since "struggles" implies victories and defeats, then not only have homosexuals established themselves in the Catholic priesthood, but they have, at one time or another, "dominated" the priesthood. Not surprisingly, the statistics reported by Newsweek bear out the allusion to "dominated," since "between 35 and 50 percent of Roman Catholic priests are homosexual" (ibid). "The facts show that there is 20 times as much homosexuality as there is pedophilia, and the whole structure of many seminaries and many chancery offices promotes and protects it" (The Wanderer, May 2, 2002).

[betsy]

Study shows scope of US sex-abuse scandal

Washington, Feb. 27, 2004 (CWNews.com) - Over 4,000 American Catholic priests have been charges with the sexual abuse of children in the past 50 years, according to a report to be released today by US bishops' conference.

At a Friday press conference in Washington, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops will formally release two studies on the sex-abuse scandal: a statistic analysis prepared by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, and an analysis of those findings by the National Review Board commissioned by the US bishops.

As he presented the findings of the National Review Board, at the February 27 press conference, Washington attorney Robert Bennett said that there was "absolutely no excuse" for the failure of bishops to control priests who molested children. He argued that the scandal must be seen not as a personnel issue, but as an "age-old question fo right and wrong, good and evil."

The report found that 80 percent of the abuse involved male victims. That percentage climbed steadily from the 1950s through the 1980s, while the number of incidents also increased. Sex-abuse charges were most commonly brought against priests ordained in the 1960s and 1970s, and among the priests ordained in 1970, one out of ten has been accused of molesting children.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=27941

[betsy]

WHY AREN'T PRIESTS IDENTIFIED AS HOMOSEXUALS?

Fallen Roman Catholic Priests are identified as pedophiles, sex abusers or just nasty perverts.

Though they do what homosexuals do, the popular liberated social status of “homosexual” is denied them, both by their own church, and by the homosexual at large.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%...ual_priests.htm

The articles have come from church-related sites....but that is understandable since this is a major problem for the Church.

[betsy]

Newspaper Coverage Shows Anti-Homosexual Bias, Study AllegesBy Lawrence Morahan

CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer

September 16, 2003

(CNSNews.com) - An examination of more than 1,300 newspaper reports on the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church has revealed the coverage reinforced inaccurate and misleading stereotypes of homosexual men as child abusers, a new study by a homosexual advocacy group says.

The linking of homosexuality and child sexual abuse in stories by Boston Globe reporters during 2002 was not necessarily intentional, said psychologists Dr. Glenda Russell and Nancy Kelly, authors of "Subtle Stereotyping: The Media, Homosexuality and the Priest Sexual Abuse Scandal."

However, "Linkages don't have to be intentional to be harmful. The stereotype of gay-man-as-pedophile gets used in many policy contexts to justify discrimination and violence against gay people," Russell, a senior researcher with the Institute for Gay and Lesbian Strategic Studies (IGLSS), said in a release.

Independent social science research is quite clear that male homosexuals are not more likely to commit child sexual abuse than non-homosexual men, Russell asserted.

Russell's findings, however, are sharply at odds with the views of Robert Knight, director of the Culture and Family Institute with Concerned Women for America.

"Since one-third to one-half of all child molestations are committed by men against boys, and homosexual men comprise less than 2 percent of the population, this means that the ratio of child molesters among homosexuals is far, far higher than among the rest of the population," Knight said.

"This doesn't mean all homosexuals molest children, but it means that the problem is far greater within the homosexual community, and the Catholic scandal only underlines that point. More than 80 percent of the victims were teenage boys molested by homosexual priests," Knight added.

The IGLSS report also criticized the news media's placement of stories related to the priest sex abuse scandal alongside descriptions of other inappropriate behaviors. The frequent emphasis of the victim's gender also helped create a misleading association between homosexuality and abuse, the report stated.

The IGLSS did not return calls seeking comment. In their report, however, the authors urged journalists to exercise greater vigilance to eliminate stereotyping and to consult with communication specialists when appropriate.

Knight also disputed the authors' findings of media bias in reporting on homosexuals and crime as "an example of wishing something would go away that is glaringly obvious.

"They're heavily into damage control because they know that the dark underside of the Catholic sex scandal is the uncovering of the network of gay priests in the seminaries and in the churches.

"As the Church cleans up its act, we hope people will realize this was a homosexual problem, not a pedophile problem. After all, most of the victims were teenagers, not small children," Knight said.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Pag...L20030916a.html

[scribblet]

Well I have my tinfoil hat on ... here goes!

http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/lawrevie...14_2baldwin.PDF

Research confirms that homosexuals molest children at

a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals, and the

mainstream homosexual culture commonly promotes sex

with children.1 Homosexual leaders repeatedly argue

for the freedom to engage in consensual sex with

children, and blind surveys reveal a shockingly high

number of homosexuals admit to sexual contact with

minors.2 Indeed, the homosexual community is driving

the worldwide campaign to lower the legal age of

consent.

This trend comes at the expense of our children's

safety."

I havn't read the whole thing just skimmed, but it certainly gives a lot of backup. its quite a research paper. It does mention NAMBLA more than once.

Most of the public is by now aware of NAMBLA, a group that openly

promotes sex with minor boys and claims that boy-lovers respond to the

needs of the boys they love. NAMBLA is currently the target of a class

action lawsuit by parents of children molested and, in one case,

murdered by individuals associated with NAMBLA.20 Publicly, the

mainstream gay organizations distance themselves from NAMBLA.

[Shakeyhands]

the fact that any of you are trying to link homosexuality to NAMBLA is outrageous. Come on.. :angry: .

[YankAbroad]

Regent "University" is Pat Robertson's bible college which offers only religious degrees in fundamentalist discipline.

Its "research" is generally sponsored by Pat Robertson -- the guy who blamed the 9/11 attacks on gays and abortion rights leaders, who called for the assassination of Huge Chavez, and said that Sharon's stroke is due to God punishing him for negotiating peace with the Palestinians.

So far, the only "research" supporting the contentions has been:

1) News postings from anti-gay web sites (CNS, CBN and "LifeSite");

2) Analysis on gay stuff from an "art club" web site;

3) A "research paper" from Regent "University," a correspondence college from people who want a degree in religious wingnuttery.

Now THERE are some quality sources.

And still, even now, with Google, the people advancing the spurious argument that NAMBLA is all about gay rights cannot even name a single major gay rights group.

I think it's safe to say that this "debate" is pretty much over, and it's not betsy and co. who have won!

[geoffrey]

You won't find research on any politically incorrect idea from a university. Just doesn't happen, they have donors and liberal minded students to be on their knees for.

It would be pretty simple research actually. Find out how many pedophiles are gay. Then find out how many gays there are. Find the occurance of homosexuality in the general population and then find the occurance of homosexuality in the pedophile population.

I can just imagine the anger and disgust if any sociology or anthropology student tried to present that as a research project... you just won't see that work done by a university.

[YankAbroad]

A politically incorrect idea is one thing.

A plain old fallacy is quite another.

[Shakeyhands]

A politically incorrect idea is one thing.

A plain old fallacy is quite another.

Don't you mean phallacy?

[betsy]

Regent "University" is Pat Robertson's bible college which offers only religious degrees in fundamentalist discipline.

Its "research" is generally sponsored by Pat Robertson -- the guy who blamed the 9/11 attacks on gays and abortion rights leaders, who called for the assassination of Huge Chavez, and said that Sharon's stroke is due to God punishing him for negotiating peace with the Palestinians.

So far, the only "research" supporting the contentions has been:

1) News postings from anti-gay web sites (CNS, CBN and "LifeSite");

2) Analysis on gay stuff from an "art club" web site;

3) A "research paper" from Regent "University," a correspondence college from people who want a degree in religious wingnuttery.

Now THERE are some quality sources.

And still, even now, with Google, the people advancing the spurious argument that NAMBLA is all about gay rights cannot even name a single major gay rights group.

I think it's safe to say that this "debate" is pretty much over, and it's not betsy and co. who have won!

Again YankAbroad....back up your claim! Remember, personal opinions don't count.

So far, I have been backing up all my claims with links and substantiations. Whether where my source came from is not the issue. The fact is that they are there, openly available to the public so anyone can, including ILGA, can freely dispute them.

Now, you say they are not true. So prove it.

Why should I even consider taking your word for it especially when you've already proved yourself quite wrong when you deny the link between NAMBLA and ILGA.

You say:

"I think it's safe to say that this "debate" is pretty much over, and it's not betsy and co. who have won! "

Funny that I never thought of this in terms of whether "I win or I lose" debate. Although we are debating on this particular thing....I'm sure that you'll agree with me that in the end, this is about the welfare of children and the legitimate concern of some, or if not all parents.

Child crimes are the most horrible nightmares any parents can think of.

Sorry, but this issue is more than just a silly little game for me.

[CCGirl]

Regent "University" is Pat Robertson's bible college which offers only religious degrees in fundamentalist discipline.

Its "research" is generally sponsored by Pat Robertson -- the guy who blamed the 9/11 attacks on gays and abortion rights leaders, who called for the assassination of Huge Chavez, and said that Sharon's stroke is due to God punishing him for negotiating peace with the Palestinians.

So far, the only "research" supporting the contentions has been:

1) News postings from anti-gay web sites (CNS, CBN and "LifeSite");

2) Analysis on gay stuff from an "art club" web site;

3) A "research paper" from Regent "University," a correspondence college from people who want a degree in religious wingnuttery.

Now THERE are some quality sources.

And still, even now, with Google, the people advancing the spurious argument that NAMBLA is all about gay rights cannot even name a single major gay rights group.

I think it's safe to say that this "debate" is pretty much over, and it's not betsy and co. who have won!

Again YankAbroad....back up your claim! Remember, personal opinions don't count.

So far, I have been backing up all my claims with links and substantiations. Whether where my source came from is not the issue. The fact is that they are there, openly available to the public so anyone can, including ILGA, can freely dispute them.

Now, you say they are not true. So prove it.

Why should I even consider taking your word for it especially when you've already proved yourself quite wrong when you deny the link between NAMBLA and ILGA.

You say:

"I think it's safe to say that this "debate" is pretty much over, and it's not betsy and co. who have won! "

Funny that I never thought of this in terms of whether "I win or I lose" debate. Although we are debating on this particular thing....I'm sure that you'll agree with me that in the end, this is about the welfare of children and the legitimate concern of some, or if not all parents.

Child crimes are the most horrible nightmares any parents can think of.

Sorry, but this issue is more than just a silly little game for me.

This is beyond outrageous! :angry: Has anyone here gone to university? Learned how to research and what constitutes a reliable source? Same standards here. Provide legitimate sources only please. Otherwise your claims have no merit.

CHRISTIAN WEBSITES ARE NOT A SOURCE. TO PROVE A POINT, YOU MUST COME TO THE TABLE WITH FACTS.

IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SOURCES TO BACK UP UNREASONABLE CLAIMS OR MAKE LINKS WHERE THERE ARE NONE.

Whew!

Paedophilia and homosexuality are 2 SEPARATE things.

Paedophilia: Sexual attraction to pre-pubescent girls or boys. That is it. Gender is not very important, they are attracted to children. Period.

Homosexual: Sexual attraction to the same sex. That is it. Has nothing to do with children.

[YankAbroad]

I love how betsy's blood libel is cloaked in phoney "concern for children."

Someone who would use child welfare as a political club to attack their enemies is beneath contempt.