Our Border Guards Ran Away

[geoffrey]

Check this out:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060124/w012498.html

American murders with guns were being chased towards Canada, and our border guards packed up for the day and left because they were scared.

I hope Harper arms these people with not only sidearms, but whatever weaponry they need to defend our country. How sad is it that our law enforcement people have to run away in fear?

I don't blame the border guards, don't worry, I'd be running too. Lets give these people the tools to do their job or lets just stop pretending to be soverign.

[tml12]

Check this out:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060124/w012498.html

American murders with guns were being chased towards Canada, and our border guards packed up for the day and left because they were scared.

I hope Harper arms these people with not only sidearms, but whatever weaponry they need to defend our country. How sad is it that our law enforcement people have to run away in fear?

I don't blame the border guards, don't worry, I'd be running too. Lets give these people the tools to do their job or lets just stop pretending to be soverign.

Agreed.

[Hicksey]

I've talked to many in my travels as a truck driver and most have set a deadline and, for their own safety, most are ready to leave the job permanently should they not be armed. One female guard from Sarnia, ON I caught on a smoke break says she hates the idea of carry a gun, but insists it is necessary. She told me police had to be called in 25 times last year for unruly gun toting travellers. And they have to stand there at the mercy of a gun toting, usually either angry or emotionally unstable traveller for up to 10 minutes while the police arrive.

I'd quit too.

[geoffrey]

I've talked to many in my travels as a truck driver and most have set a deadline and, for their own safety, most are ready to leave the job permanently should they not be armed. One female guard from Sarnia, ON I caught on a smoke break says she hates the idea of carry a gun, but insists it is necessary. She told me police had to be called in 25 times last year for unruly gun toting travellers. And they have to stand there at the mercy of a gun toting, usually either angry or emotionally unstable traveller for up to 10 minutes while the police arrive.

I'd quit too.

Remember Hicksey, 10 minutes response time is actually pretty good. Imagine the remote crossing in Southern Alberta (and other places I'm sure)... I've heard that one of the crossings is nearly an hour for police to arrive.

[Hicksey]

I've talked to many in my travels as a truck driver and most have set a deadline and, for their own safety, most are ready to leave the job permanently should they not be armed. One female guard from Sarnia, ON I caught on a smoke break says she hates the idea of carry a gun, but insists it is necessary. She told me police had to be called in 25 times last year for unruly gun toting travellers. And they have to stand there at the mercy of a gun toting, usually either angry or emotionally unstable traveller for up to 10 minutes while the police arrive.

I'd quit too.

Remember Hicksey, 10 minutes response time is actually pretty good. Imagine the remote crossing in Southern Alberta (and other places I'm sure)... I've heard that one of the crossings is nearly an hour for police to arrive.

Still, it takes much less than 10 min to pull a trigger. At least with a sidearm, and others close by with the same, she stands a real chance.

She told me her husband offered to take on a second job if she'd just quit. But she's about 50 or so and isn't far from a full pension and is hoping they'll come through.

[mar]

If the problem is this routine, it would make far more sense to create and task an RCMP or even military group to police the border, rather than expecting civil servants hired to check for contraband, collect tax and check passports to become a SWAT team.

Long before 9-11 most european countries used either military or national police at border crossings. It makes far more sense and is far safer for all concerned to provide full time professional armed support rather than arming customs officers who weren't hired for it and are not trained for it. Customs officers have a real purpose. If we need security use professionals, don't make it part of their job as they will never be as well trained or experienced as professional police or military personnel and it will actually impede their real function.

I hope this won't become one of those idiot ideas that amounts to "Hey! We got these guys there already. Just give them guns and save money instead of providing real security." Its a recipe for disaster and some things should not be considered just because they're cheaper.

[geoffrey]

Still, it takes much less than 10 min to pull a trigger. At least with a sidearm, and others close by with the same, she stands a real chance.

She told me her husband offered to take on a second job if she'd just quit. But she's about 50 or so and isn't far from a full pension and is hoping they'll come through.

I can imagine. I just feel like our leadership, at all levels and parties, have been completely unconcerned with the safety of both our border guards and police officers. We can't be safe in this country until those that protect us are safe. This is definately a priority issue for me, and it needs to get off the backburner and into the spotlight.

Hopefully a news story like that helps their cause.

[Hicksey]

If the problem is this routine, it would make far more sense to create and task an RCMP or even military group to police the border, rather than expecting civil servants hired to check for contraband, collect tax and check passports to become a SWAT team.

Long before 9-11 most european countries used either military or national police at border crossings. It makes far more sense and is far safer for all concerned to provide full time professional armed support rather than arming customs officers who weren't hired for it and are not trained for it. Customs officers have a real purpose. If we need security use professionals, don't make it part of their job as they will never be as well trained or experienced as professional police or military personnel and it will actually impede their real function.

I hope this won't become one of those idiot ideas that amounts to "Hey! We got these guys there already. Just give them guns and save money instead of providing real security." Its a recipe for disaster and some things should not be considered just because they're cheaper.

Giving them guns doesn't negate the need for a real border force. But considering the number of guns they encounter I think we owe them at least that much. Their job is much more dangerous than you make it out to be.

[geoffrey]

If the problem is this routine, it would make far more sense to create and task an RCMP or even military group to police the border, rather than expecting civil servants hired to check for contraband, collect tax and check passports to become a SWAT team.

Long before 9-11 most european countries used either military or national police at border crossings. It makes far more sense and is far safer for all concerned to provide full time professional armed support rather than arming customs officers who weren't hired for it and are not trained for it. Customs officers have a real purpose. If we need security use professionals, don't make it part of their job as they will never be as well trained or experienced as professional police or military personnel and it will actually impede their real function.

I hope this won't become one of those idiot ideas that amounts to "Hey! We got these guys there already. Just give them guns and save money instead of providing real security." Its a recipe for disaster and some things should not be considered just because they're cheaper.

I'd agree... but it won't happen in Canada. The military policing inside our borders isn't favourable to anyone. The RCMP is so short staffed and underfunded already, that this is unfeasiable. The RCMP needs years of rebuilding before it can be where it wants to, adding a huge other mandate will only compound this.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to recruit 10,000 police officers? Can't happen overnight, we need a solution now, not 10 or 15 years from now. These people are leaving our borders open because they fear for their lives.

I don't disagree with you, but I just don't think any other way is feasiable right now.

[mar]

Giving them guns doesn't negate the need for a real border force. But considering the number of guns they encounter I think we owe them at least that much. Their job is much more dangerous than you make it out to be.

My whole point is, if its become that dangerous - and I never said it wasn't. I said armed security was not defined as part of a customs officer's job - we are not doing innocent citizens of whichever countries are going through the crossing or customs offficers any favour by arming them.

Armed security should be left to the professionals.

And I actually know something about this. A close friend of mine was a customs officer and yeah, hassles with U.S. citizens over their weapons is a daily occurrence, but ask yourself, what do we accomplish by arming the customs officers? If we're talking about regular U.S. citizens - non-criminals - who are unwilling to surrender their guns or go back to the U.S - the standard policy - do we want our customs officer's drawing weapons on them? If we're talking about the kind of organized smuggling of weapons by criminal gangs that all parties talked about during the election, do we expect customs officers to engage in fire fights with groups of better armed gangsters?

[crazymf]

Well, I think the border should be a half mile wide and inside it is no man's land where the US and Canadian Customs people work in concert to a preagreed set of rules. That way, a problem could be dealt with immediately and the proper authorities can take charge as necessary instantaneously.

Also, then more time and energy can be spent securing the border with a common voice rather than duplicate everything.

My personal feeling is to get rid of the border altogether and police the coastline around our continent.

[Hicksey]

Giving them guns doesn't negate the need for a real border force. But considering the number of guns they encounter I think we owe them at least that much. Their job is much more dangerous than you make it out to be.

My whole point is, if its become that dangerous - and I never said it wasn't. I said armed security was not defined as part of a customs officer's job - we are not doing innocent citizens of whichever countries are going through the crossing or customs offficers any favour by arming them.

Armed security should be left to the professionals.

And I actually know something about this. A close friend of mine was a customs officer and yeah, hassles with U.S. citizens over their weapons is a daily occurrence, but ask yourself, what do we accomplish by arming the customs officers? If we're talking about regular U.S. citizens - non-criminals - who are unwilling to surrender their guns or go back to the U.S - the standard policy - do we want our customs officer's drawing weapons on them? If we're talking about the kind of organized smuggling of weapons by criminal gangs that all parties talked about during the election, do we expect customs officers to engage in fire fights with groups of better armed gangsters?

The US customs agents rarely pull their weapon. But they are taught not to hesitate if there is any suggestion their life is in danger. I'm through customs as often as most customs officers are. I see what happens. I've had a gun pulled on me because they thought I had a weapon in my vehicle upon xraying it. It turned out to be my umbrella. But all this makes me feel all the more safer. I'd rather they err on the side of their safety, and in my opinion it shows in how well they do their jobs.

[Hicksey]

Well, I think the border should be a half mile wide and inside it is no man's land where the US and Canadian Customs people work in concert to a preagreed set of rules. That way, a problem could be dealt with immediately and the proper authorities can take charge as necessary instantaneously.

Also, then more time and energy can be spent securing the border with a common voice rather than duplicate everything.

My personal feeling is to get rid of the border altogether and police the coastline around our continent.

I like your first idea and they're working toward that end for the detroit-windsor border crossing right now.

But I'm no too sure about the second.

[Leafless]

geoffery

You wrote- " Let's give these people the tools to do their job or let's stop pretending to be soverign."

Actually if border crossing are this dangerous this is a job for Canada's military to have a small detatchment based nearby to deal with these unprecented life threating situations that could also involve terrorist activity.

There are different aspects involving sovereignty and as far as Canada is concerned DEFENSE is not one of them!

I don't think Canada really was never sovereign.

[Hicksey]

What is it about properly trained people legally owning and operating firearms that scares people?

Its not them killing everyone. Its the real criminals.

[Wilber]

Giving them guns doesn't negate the need for a real border force. But considering the number of guns they encounter I think we owe them at least that much. Their job is much more dangerous than you make it out to be.

My whole point is, if its become that dangerous - and I never said it wasn't. I said armed security was not defined as part of a customs officer's job - we are not doing innocent citizens of whichever countries are going through the crossing or customs officers any favour by arming them.

Armed security should be left to the professionals.

And I actually know something about this. A close friend of mine was a customs officer and yeah, hassles with U.S. citizens over their weapons is a daily occurrence, but ask yourself, what do we accomplish by arming the customs officers? If we're talking about regular U.S. citizens - non-criminals - who are unwilling to surrender their guns or go back to the U.S - the standard policy - do we want our customs officer's drawing weapons on them? If we're talking about the kind of organized smuggling of weapons by criminal gangs that all parties talked about during the election, do we expect customs officers to engage in fire fights with groups of better armed gangsters?

Just the fact they are armed will have an effect on most people. This is not an issue with US visitors, their customs officers are armed. They just think it is strange that ours aren't.

As you can see I live in a border town. Our border crossing is in our city limits and my son is local police officer. They are often called out to the border. I have asked him if they think customs officers should be armed and he says it is crazy that they are not. Customs have to deal with the same kind of people as the police and should be trained to do so. Our police are overloaded as it is. They work 12 hour shifts plus all the overtime they want and don't need Border Guard as an added job description. Since when has it been the job of municipal police forces to protect our borders? Since when has it been the responsibility of municipalities to bear the cost of protecting our borders?

This is the same mentality that prevents guards in out maximum security institutions from wearing protective vests for fear it may offend the prisoners.

[geoffrey]

What is it about properly trained people legally owning and operating firearms that scares people?

Its not them killing everyone. Its the real criminals.

I never thought I'd quote Trudeau positively, but I think the reason goes along the lines of this:

"Well, there's a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is go on and bleed. It's more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of helmets."

And I couldn't agree more with ol' Pierre (if only in this case).

[Hicksey]

What is it about properly trained people legally owning and operating firearms that scares people?

Its not them killing everyone. Its the real criminals.

I never thought I'd quote Trudeau positively, but I think the reason goes along the lines of this:

"Well, there's a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is go on and bleed. It's more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of helmets."

And I couldn't agree more with ol' Pierre (if only in this case).

That Trudeau. He's a 'love em' or 'hate em' kind of guy.

[geoffrey]

That Trudeau. He's a 'love em' or 'hate em' kind of guy.

Hate his policies, love his quotes.

[JMH]

Check this out:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060124/w012498.html

American murders with guns were being chased towards Canada, and our border guards packed up for the day and left because they were scared.

I hope Harper arms these people with not only sidearms, but whatever weaponry they need to defend our country. How sad is it that our law enforcement people have to run away in fear?

I don't blame the border guards, don't worry, I'd be running too. Lets give these people the tools to do their job or lets just stop pretending to be soverign.

I don't blame them either but if you hadn't noticed, our entire border patrol would have to be reformed in order for these people to be armed. Lets face it, we have low wage, poorley skilled staff guarding the 49th parallel.

Lets arm "Wall-Mart greeters" first and see how it goes.

[Hicksey]

Check this out:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060124/w012498.html

American murders with guns were being chased towards Canada, and our border guards packed up for the day and left because they were scared.

I hope Harper arms these people with not only sidearms, but whatever weaponry they need to defend our country. How sad is it that our law enforcement people have to run away in fear?

I don't blame the border guards, don't worry, I'd be running too. Lets give these people the tools to do their job or lets just stop pretending to be soverign.

I don't blame them either but if you hadn't noticed, our entire border patrol would have to be reformed in order for these people to be armed. Lets face it, we have low wage, poorley skilled staff guarding the 49th parallel.

Lets arm "Wall-Mart greeters" first and see how it goes.

You really don't understand just how much training and skill is required for that job. And so far as I have been able to get out of the few that I talked to, they all agree that they're well paid and don't want to leave the job. But at what price do they pay to stay? Who wants to die on the job? For them its a distinct possibility.

I really don't understand what the problem is with training these people to handle the weapons and then arming them. It's not like they're going to walk around downtown Toronto shooting each other with them.

[Wilber]

Check this out:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060124/w012498.html

American murders with guns were being chased towards Canada, and our border guards packed up for the day and left because they were scared.

I hope Harper arms these people with not only sidearms, but whatever weaponry they need to defend our country. How sad is it that our law enforcement people have to run away in fear?

I don't blame the border guards, don't worry, I'd be running too. Lets give these people the tools to do their job or lets just stop pretending to be soverign.

I don't blame them either but if you hadn't noticed, our entire border patrol would have to be reformed in order for these people to be armed. Lets face it, we have low wage, poorley skilled staff guarding the 49th parallel.

Lets arm "Wall-Mart greeters" first and see how it goes.

There would have to be some different rules for the part time help that is used during the summer but as for the full time border people, I'm sure they will be comforted by the high regard you have for them. What an arrogant thing to say. Are you an expert on the qualifications required or are you just shooting off your mouth?

[Army Guy]

We've had this debate before, it's actually a "no brainer". Arm the border gaurds, give them the tools they require to accomplish thier jobs safely. If the biggest obsticle in arming them is training, then train them whats the big deal, it can be done by any policing agency be RCMP or local. In a short time.

This is another mess left by our last goverment, and one i hope will be solved quickly by the present one. Nobody should have to put thier lives at risk unnessicarily for this Country. But then again when have we as Canadians been concern about lives when compared to a dollar.

[tml12]

We've had this debate before, it's actually a "no brainer". Arm the border gaurds, give them the tools they require to accomplish thier jobs safely. If the biggest obsticle in arming them is training, then train them whats the big deal, it can be done by any policing agency be RCMP or local. In a short time.

This is another mess left by our last goverment, and one i hope will be solved quickly by the present one. Nobody should have to put thier lives at risk unnessicarily for this Country. But then again when have we as Canadians been concern about lives when compared to a dollar.

As someone who crosses the border more than 10 times per year and who has worked with border guards in different areas there is no doubt in my mind border guards need to be armed.

This Eastern Canadian obsession that guns are bad and the idiotic Liberal proposal to ban guns are just examples of leftist ignorance.

Train them, arm them, and secure this country's borders NOW.

[Hicksey]

We've had this debate before, it's actually a "no brainer". Arm the border gaurds, give them the tools they require to accomplish thier jobs safely. If the biggest obsticle in arming them is training, then train them whats the big deal, it can be done by any policing agency be RCMP or local. In a short time.

This is another mess left by our last goverment, and one i hope will be solved quickly by the present one. Nobody should have to put thier lives at risk unnessicarily for this Country. But then again when have we as Canadians been concern about lives when compared to a dollar.

As someone who crosses the border more than 10 times per year and who has worked with border guards in different areas there is no doubt in my mind border guards need to be armed.

This Eastern Canadian obsession that guns are bad and the idiotic Liberal proposal to ban guns are just examples of leftist ignorance.

Train them, arm them, and secure this country's borders NOW.

Agreed. I see it even more than you do. I cross twice a day. One there and once back.

If we don't they're going to keep walking off the job until they get it. About once every week the people at the border walk off the job in protest.