Alliance Fanatic Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Alright its time to face some of the facts about Canada as a nation, it is near death. Many left wingers here such as Gugsy, and Siriff, may be already prepared to attack me, but lets face it Canada was once one of the most beautiful countries in the world, it was also one of the richest, we had a strong military, and were built around strong families. However the Canada which 100,000 Canadian's died for has been crushed, and destroyed, by 30 years of Liberal and Progressive Conservative governments. The Liberals and PC's have brought in a socialist state, and have moved Canada so far left that even the Canadian Alliance which would be considered a moderate party by world standards is considered to far right wing. Canadians could have reversed the tide of liberalism in Canada when the Reform party was made official opposition, and despite the Reform party, and Canadian Alliance's best efforts the east kept saying no. On issues such as gay marriage, multiculturalism, and religious freedoms, any person whom is against socially liberal doctrine is considered a nazi, bigot, or redneck. So is Canada doomed, in the end it probably is, Alberta, and particularly the west are moving more and more towards western seperation, Paul Martin, Peter Mackay, and the liberals and PC's now are trying to buy Albertan's votes, not earning them, PC's and Liberals represent the old eastern arrogant establishment [i know that many in eastern Canada may hold conservative values, however a large majority seem to be brainwashed], PC's and Liberals have attacked western Canadians for not supporting the establishment, Joe Clark, Peter Mackay, Paul Martin, and Sheila Copps have attacked Albertan's who are opposed to the central Canadian establishment, Mackay and Clark have attacked Harpers proposal which would give Alberta more power to govern its own affairs. In conclusion the fate of Canada depends on two elections 2004, and 2008, if either a Liberal or Progressive Conservative government come about, it is likely that Alberta, BC, and maybe Saskatchewan would bprepared to seperate, or join the states. PC's and Liberals continuosly attack the country which 100,000 Canadians died for, they consider it evil, and racist, and they support the Trudeau state of socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaken Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 this post tells of canada's troubles. most of canada's provinces realize how good we have it, but AB and BC want to destroy the naiton we have built, and create a US Jr. Canada is doomed so long as the extremist-right wingers are still in this nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Read Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Well AF, i would definitely agree that Canada needs a lot of work - it is ironic that 3 World Wars were fought against Statism and Fascism, yet the Left Liberals in North America still are mesmerized by coercive socialism. Gov'ts will survive if they can provide the goods and convince people of their usefulness. In this regard Canada has some problems. The Federal Parliamentary system does not provide checks and balances and nor is there audit control. The Constitution is constantly being toyed with - as well as the Charter of Rights - to allow Federal intrusion into local matters. Fiscally the country is a mess with $172 K per capita debt. This is incredible. Canada suffers from the 2nd worst per capita debt in the Western world. We also have a productivity rate that is 1/2 of US levels which ensures a lower standard of living. Politicians and the media here buy votes you said, not earn them. They have effectively neutered the CA through slander and media bias. The Provinces and major cities must now fight to restore the fiscal and power balances in their favour. If they do this and if a party over time at the Fed level would actually limit and then roll back socialism - Canada would be a far more prosperous place. I read a report that Sweden would have net incomes 3 x higher and a much higher standard of living without its nonsensical socialist regime. I believe that Toronto, Calgary-Edmonton might have to threaten to separate to get treated properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaken Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 "I read a report that Sweden would have net incomes 3 x higher and a much higher standard of living without its nonsensical socialist regime." If sweden were to do any better economically, it would become the land of milk and honey... literally. Social-Democracy has worked well in Sweden. Socialisim is a faled system, Social-Democracy however, as Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark, France and others prove, just plain works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast99 Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 (edited) Considering Canada "near death" is completely bizarre. Every nation has some problems. Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliance Fanatic Posted August 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 A poll from JMCK found that 56% of Albertan's were seriously considering seperation A poll from Compass showed 42% of Albertans were considering seperation in one year the amount of people considering seperation rose 12% points from 8% to 22% PC's have attacked social conservatism, and have also widely supported a bill which would oppress freedom of religion, and freedom of speech. Every single tory with the exception of Elsie Wayne support Svend Robinsons bill C-215, which would make parts of the bible hate speech. The bill would also see those who speak out about homosexuality being immoral could be charged with a hate crime, this happened with a saskatchewan man who said in a paper that homosexuality is immoral, and a BC counsellor who wrote against BC's gay positive program. So if the tories love this country so much why are they all wannabe liberals, the only criticism the tories have of the government is ethics, that is it. So put in place a tory government, and Canada ends up with basically liberals in sheeps clothing, the Canadian Alliance is the only party which actually believes in individual liberty, free markets, and patriotism, the Tories and Liberals hate what the Alliance stands for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast99 Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 (edited) Defense spending was much higher under Mulroney. Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliance Fanatic Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 What else did Brian Mulroney do that was so great. -Large spending on social programs -Supporting statism, and social liberalism in all its forms -the skyrocketing debt -Creating western alienation So Defense [and NAFTA] were his only real "conservative acheivements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_springer Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 There is a quietly seathing culdron just under the surface of western politics, this is a reality. In the months following the last election out here the contempt for eastern Canada held by just about anyone and everyone I talked to was remarkable...and people had no problem being open about it, too. Every election it's the same thing...except it get worse. A great many people take easterners shutout of the Reform/CA as a slap in the face to the west, period, end of story...myself included. That easterners would rather vote for scumbags and bastards like the Liberals absolutely guiles people out here beyond words. That easterners would alternatively vote PC...led by a total loser of a shmuck like Joe Clark...is even more insulting. This Paul Martin thing has a very dangerous downside to it. If this son of a bitch turns out to be just another scumbag Liberal handing westerns yet another crock of bullshit, the backlash out here could be disasterous...and damn suddenly, too. The best thing that could happen for national unity in this country is about 30 CA MPs being elected in Ontario. I can't tell you how much pressure that would relieve in this part of the country. Conversely... If the CA gets shutout yet again...especially with a leader like Stephen Harper... Well... I wouldn't bet ten cents on the future of BC and Alberta in this country. And I'm not kidding one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast99 Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 (edited) Springer, I don't think that's the case. Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaken Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Springer: A great many people take easterners shutout of the Reform/CA as a slap in the face to the west, period, end of story...myself included. That easterners would rather vote for scumbags and bastards like the Liberals absolutely guiles people out here beyond words. We just dont like the extreme social-conservativism that you guys want. I'll say the same thing I say to quebec sepratists if you want to leave... c-ya later. frankly, the west and quebec are tugging at eachother. once one of the 2 leaves, ALL demands of the other will be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Read Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Ontario and East are the Post Modern Elite - they ape the Upper West Side and Hollywood ninnies in the US who want to turn the world's most open society into a playpen for Castro types. Socialism fails period. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about this fact. It is financially an insolvent set of concepts. Morally, it relativises all philosophies and concepts; divorces the past from the present; and undermines the values that create a prosperous and intelligent society. Post Modern socialism appeals to the subjective lowest common denominator - a form of hedonistic utilitarianism. It basically states 'nothing matters'. Given such an ideal is it any wonder that no one cares about a non existent military; anti-american racism; increasing government power; higher tax and debt burdens; regionalisation created by regional subsidy programs; multi-culturalism; and a failed immigration system not to mention the idiocy of Gay Marriage and Marijuana legalisation. Socialism fails. What then does that say about Canada's future ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost in Manitoba Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 When Socialism really does fail, Craig, then maybe you will be taken seriously. When the stock markets falls or hundereds of thousands are out of workl, can't you equally say that capitalism fails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_springer Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Springer,I agree. I supported the Alliance in the last election. But a lot has changed since then. Namely, they have a "total loser of a shmuck" named Stephen Harper as their leader, instead of the energetic, charismatic, would be-Prime minister Stockwell Day. Very disappointing. - Gugsy So... You're a bitter Stockwell Day fan... Who will now vote for a collection of losers, with a no-body leader in MacKay... To get even with the CA. Give me a break! MacKay isn't qualified to clean Harper's shoes, and you damn well know it. I was, and I still am, a fan of Stock Day...but not to the point that I'm prepared to pout for the next ten years while Canada goes straight into the shitter. Damn it, is that pettiness or what! :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliance Fanatic Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I think this website tells why the west is so angry at the east. http://www.albertaresidentsleague.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaken Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 why is the west pissed? simple. they think everoyne is a socialist out to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast99 Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 (edited) I went to that website, AF. Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliance Fanatic Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Gugsy, Harper made that letter because eastern Canadians would not accept the Alliance as an alternative, and it seems that if eastern Canada were to ever have economic problems they would try to drain Alberta's resources. It is important that Alberta cut off the flow of money it gives to central Canada, Canadians tend to see Alberta as a piggy bank, nothing more. Its time the west actually starting to toughen up against the eastern provinces. The west should bring in seperatist governments, then the east would surely bow down, vote in Alliance governments, and thier would always be a prime minister from the west, hey it worked in Quebec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C. Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Being an eastener,I hate being called names by the CA out west.I do not vote liberal.Here is the dilemma in this country.PC or CA will not win any election ever as two separate entities.If you want to keep Canada out of liberal rule,which is killing this country,then the right needs to stop being so partisan,merge again as a united right wing party,and sweep the next election.However,if they fail to do so,you're looking at 4 MORE YEARS OF LIBERAL RULE,and we all know what that will do to Canada.So,time to get our collective crap together,and form a party that the the liberals will once again have to take seriously.The libs just can't believe their good fortune at this time,and it will continue as long as the RIGHT vote is split between the CA and PC.It's up to the voters to demand a strong right wing party,before Martin's now obvious crowning of leader of Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRiff Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 you know, people should be carefull about he cries of some who declare society is falling apart and radical changes are needed right now, and of course, they are the ones who should do it. why? because some views can only get attention by claiming everything right now is wrong. is everything in Canada wrong? no is any part of society falling apart? i dont see it. our general path for hte last 50 years has been very good. how can we conclude this? a nation must provide for its citizens, somethign which canada has done. we are not dying, nor poor, nor uneducated, nor ignorant, nor racist, or ignorant. just because a large minority of Canada thinks different does not mean we are one the verge of collapse. the sky is not falling. everyday Canada is fantastic, best in the world. better then the US even. it would be much more respectable to make arguments for the betterment of Canada rather then just yelling that everything is wrong. Everythign is not wrong if you look at it. we are actually doing very very well. find out ways to do better. SirRiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWatcher Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Being an eastener,I hate being called names by the CA out west. What names are the Alliance calling you Mike C.? The PC's have called us every name in the book. "Radioactive Westerner" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost in Manitoba Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Good Post Riff. I agree with everything you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Okay. Let's see this justified. Riff, Lost, you are always big on the proclamations but scanty on the proof. Let's see some evidence that you've thought this through at all. Why will Canada continue to be great? What economic and social policies does it have in place to assure continued prosperity? Bearing in mind that: a) the national debt is absolutely enormous (2nd largest in the world) and will take centuries to pay off taxes damage an economy and Canada taxes individuals and businesses very heavily c) the ineptitude in the Canadian economy drives most of the talent south of the border (doctors, entrepreneurs, investors) d) the trade deficit is very large and grows larger e) the health care system has massive problems and the government has no plans to fix it (either privatisation, or mixed methods such as the British p3 scheme). f) the welfare system is completely broken, and many people live off it while others wait 6 weeks for an unemployment cheque g) the birth rate has dropped to 1.52 children per woman. Immigration is now the only method of Canadian population growth. What this means is massive tax increases to pay for increasing pension and healthcare costs for the aged as the ratio of pensioners to workers multiplies. h) in social matters, teen pregnancies are up massively, and divorce rates are skyrocketing. i) the drop in wages as high-earning manufacturing and trades jobs are replaced with low-paid service jobs, combined with increasing taxes. j) the increasing taxpayer-borne costs of education, its increasingly poor results, and the increasing worthlessness of educational credentials. And so on. But what are your answers to these problems and why do you believe that the government will enact them anytime soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast99 Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 (edited) Hugo,You have raised interesting points. Edited August 11, 2015 by Gugsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C. Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Good post Hugo. Gugsy,any plan to get a vote splitting remedy in action,would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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