Ukraine Can't Win the War

[Scott75]

On 4/25/2025 at 7:35 AM, Boges said:

Isn't that what they're already doing? 

No more US Aide AFIK. There was a story that Ukraine offered to buy weapons and Trump said no. 

https://glavnoe.in.ua/en/news-en/trump-refused-to-support-ukraine-even-in-exchange-for-50-billion-from-the-eu-bild

There's no question in my mind, bro is compromised by Putin. 

Imagine if any other leader begged Putin to stop his attacks like Trump did yesterday. They'd be considered weak. Trump is acting like a Cuck here, and it's obvious for the world to see. 

The EU has some legit skin in the game. Putin's success is their failure. They, and Canada too for that matter, should step up. The US was only great when they were peddling influence globally. Trump is throwing that away. 

 

It's certainly true that certain western -elites- have some skin in the game. Russia's victories in Ukraine are making it clear that the west can't just walk all over anyone it pleases. From what I've read, there's  no way that Ukraine can win. Either Russian wins completely, or the west goes to war with Russia, in which case -everyone- loses. 

[Nationalist]

Russia initiated a 3 day cease fire for their victory day.

We will see how that goes.

[User]

On 4/26/2025 at 10:17 AM, Scott75 said:

 

It's certainly true that certain western -elites- have some skin in the game. Russia's victories in Ukraine are making it clear that the west can't just walk all over anyone it pleases. From what I've read, there's  no way that Ukraine can win. Either Russian wins completely, or the west goes to war with Russia, in which case -everyone- loses. 

What are you talking about?

"The west" was not walking all over anyone here. Russia started this war and has been pushing it for over a decade now with the take over of Crimea, then their shadow war in the Donbas to full scale invasion. 

Ukraine can win if we were to dump serious munitions into their hands. 

 

[Scott75]

1 hour ago, User said:

On 4/26/2025 at 9:17 AM, Scott75 said:

It's certainly true that certain western -elites- have some skin in the game. Russia's victories in Ukraine are making it clear that the west can't just walk all over anyone it pleases. From what I've read, there's  no way that Ukraine can win. Either Russian wins completely, or the west goes to war with Russia, in which case -everyone- loses. 

What are you talking about?

"The west" was not walking all over anyone here. Russia started this war and has been pushing it for over a decade now with the take over of Crimea, then their shadow war in the Donbas to full scale invasion.

No, the U.S. started this war when it helped overthrow Viktor Yanukovych during Euromaidan back in 2014, the elected President of Ukraine at the time. There's a great article on the subject if you'd like to learn more. It can be seen here:

https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/24/timeline-euromaidan-the-original-ukraine-crisis/

After that happened, Crimeans held a referendum wherein they decided to request to rejoin Russia. Russia granted their request and annexed Crimea shortly thereafter. A good article on that can be seen here:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/

A little after, the Donbass region rebelled, instigated by the new Ukrainian regime's intolerance towards Russian ties and the Russian language. Russian historian Evgeny Norin wrote an article on this shortly after Russia's military operation in Ukraine began which I found to be quite compelling on how the Odessa massacre played a pivotal role in this. His article can be seen here:

https://www.rt.com/russia/554860-burned-alive-2014-odessa/

There's an old saying that lies can get half way around the world before truth gets the chance to get its pants on, but after a while, people can finally learn of it. There was a recent court case that shows a bit of the truth of this massacre, which can be seen here:

https://alethonews.com/2025/03/18/european-court-of-human-rights-finds-ukraine-guilty-of-the-odessa-massacre/

1 hour ago, User said:

Ukraine can win if we were to dump serious munitions into their hands.

From what I've read, the main reason the U.S. and its western allies isn't giving much more munitions to Ukraine is that they're running low. I think that's a good thing, because I don't think any amount of munitions would get Ukraine to win. As I've said in the past, I firmly believe that either Russia achieves its objectives or everyone loses via a nuclear war. If I'm right, I think it should be obvious as to which outcome any rational person would prefer.

[Scott75]

21 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Russia initiated a 3 day cease fire for their victory day.

We will see how that goes.

Zelensky's already rejected it:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-calls-putin-s-three-day-ceasefire-offer-manipulation/ar-AA1DQUqu

[Nationalist]

15 hours ago, Scott75 said:

Zelensky's already rejected it:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-calls-putin-s-three-day-ceasefire-offer-manipulation/ar-AA1DQUqu

The Green T-Shirt strikes again.

What a dope.

[User]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The Green T-Shirt strikes again.

What a dope.

He already agreed to a 30-day ceasefire... if Russia needs those 3 days, they can take them up on the 30-day offer. 

Or... you know, stop the invasion altogether. 

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, User said:

He already agreed to a 30-day ceasefire... if Russia needs those 3 days, they can take them up on the 30-day offer. 

Or... you know, stop the invasion altogether. 

And who is The Green T-Shirt to decide anything?

He's already lost. He has very limited troops...very limited funds...very limited arms...and the Ukrainian people are out of patience. What? Should Putin just level Kiev and end it by force? What good would that do? Answer...NONE. The hatred between the 2 groups would just fester and within a few years...they'll be back at each other's throats.

To propose that Russia should just pack up and leave now is...well its down right juvenile.

IMO...if The Green T-Shirt wants to go on with this charade...let him do so without our financing.

Edited Wednesday at 01:54 PM by Nationalist

[User]

Just now, Nationalist said:

And who is The Green T-Shirt to decide anything?

He's already lost. He has very limited troops...very limited funds...very limited arms...and the Ukrainian people are out of patience. What? Should Putin just level Kiev and end it by force? What good would that do? Answer...NONE. The hatred between the 2 groups would just fester and within a few years...they'll be back at each other's throats.

To propose that Russia should just pack up and leave now is...well its down right juvenile.

IMO...if The Green T-Shirt wants to go on with this charade...let him do so without our financing.

Well, if Russia wants a ceasefire with "The Green T-Shirt" since Russia is at war with them trying to invade and conquer them, then that is why it is up to "The Green T-Shirt"

If he already lost, why does Russia need a ceasefire?

Zelensky has come to terms with Trump. The onus is on Russia now. 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, User said:

Well, if Russia wants a ceasefire with "The Green T-Shirt" since Russia is at war with them trying to invade and conquer them, then that is why it is up to "The Green T-Shirt"

If he already lost, why does Russia need a ceasefire?

Zelensky has come to terms with Trump. The onus is on Russia now. 

Terms? He's about to have only Europe to finance and arm his lost cause. Do you really think Europe is going to save them?

How many more dead before people wake up? Even the Ukrainians want this to end.

But tell ya what. In the spirit of compromise...you go fight...or you help finance them. But I have no skin in this farce and want none of my tax funds tossed away for this...abject failure.

[User]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Terms? He's about to have only Europe to finance and arm his lost cause. Do you really think Europe is going to save them?

How many more dead before people wake up? Even the Ukrainians want this to end.

But tell ya what. In the spirit of compromise...you go fight...or you help finance them. But I have no skin in this farce and want none of my tax funds tossed away for this...abject failure.

In the end... nothing changes with you. Your position is still to support/justify/cheer on Russia invading and Ukraine and the only solution to that is they should surrender. 

 

[Nationalist]

26 minutes ago, User said:

In the end... nothing changes with you. Your position is still to support/justify/cheer on Russia invading and Ukraine and the only solution to that is they should surrender. 

 

That's right. Nothing changes with me.

Victoria Nuland belongs in jail. Same with The Green T-Shirt. NATO has no business in this little war.

Your consistent attempts to accuse me of "cheering on Russia" is simply a childish reaction to my unwavering adherence to the ENTIRE truth behind this little war.

But hey...like I said...in the spirit of compromise...you go fight. You finance The Green T-Shirt.

I want no part in this.

[User]

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

That's right. Nothing changes with me.

Victoria Nuland belongs in jail. Same with The Green T-Shirt. NATO has no business in this little war.

Your consistent attempts to accuse me of "cheering on Russia" is simply a childish reaction to my unwavering adherence to the ENTIRE truth behind this little war.

But hey...like I said...in the spirit of compromise...you go fight. You finance The Green T-Shirt.

I want no part in this.

It is not an accusation. It is a cold, hard fact that was screen-captured and shown to you multiple times. You literally cheered them on. Since then you have pushed outright lies and propaganda to support Russia and justify their war. 

 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, User said:

It is not an accusation. It is a cold, hard fact that was screen-captured and shown to you multiple times. You literally cheered them on. Since then you have pushed outright lies and propaganda to support Russia and justify their war. 

 

Ya...a butt-hurt little boy and his beaver tail. Poor guys...

Now...what "lies" might we be talkin' 'bout here?

[User]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ya...a butt-hurt little boy and his beaver tail. Poor guys...

Now...what "lies" might we be talkin' 'bout here?

Oh please... let me go dig up every discussion we have ever had! I will get right on that. 

Hell, you just lied about not cheering for Russia and when called out you resort to:

"Ya...a butt-hurt little boy and his beaver tail. Poor guys..."

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, User said:

Oh please... let me go dig up every discussion we have ever had! I will get right on that. 

Hell, you just lied about not cheering for Russia and when called out you resort to:

"Ya...a butt-hurt little boy and his beaver tail. Poor guys..."

Hey...I have no like for moonbat and the beave. Do you?

Dig up whatever you like. Come get me when you find me cheering for any of them...except that old snarkey retort to moonbat and the beave.

Meh...I know you see the same thing as I do. The only difference is, I refuse to cheer for any of 'em.

[User]

14 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Hey...I have no like for moonbat and the beave. Do you?

Dig up whatever you like. Come get me when you find me cheering for any of them...except that old snarkey retort to moonbat and the beave.

Meh...I know you see the same thing as I do. The only difference is, I refuse to cheer for any of 'em.

Your like or dislike of someone here has nothing to do with your own actions. 

 

[Nationalist]

42 minutes ago, User said:

Your like or dislike of someone here has nothing to do with your own actions. 

 

And my own actions have been...to oppose this war and NATO involvement in it.

[User]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

And my own actions have been...to oppose this war and NATO involvement in it.

Yet, you justify and excuse Russia starting this war. You oppose NATO involvement in it in as much as that means Russia wins - the outcome you want. 

 

[Scott75]

On 4/30/2025 at 7:56 AM, User said:

Well, if Russia wants a ceasefire with "The Green T-Shirt" since Russia is at war with them trying to invade and conquer them, then that is why it is up to "The Green T-Shirt"

If he already lost, why does Russia need a ceasefire?

Zelensky has come to terms with Trump. The onus is on Russia now. 

1- Russia doesn't want a ceasefire, it wants a comprehensive peace plan. Trump is the one who wanted a 30 day ceasefire. 

2- There's plenty of evidence that Russia had absolutely no interest in any Ukrainian territory, with the exception of Sevastopol, prior to Euromaidan in 2014. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs made this clear in a speech he gave to European Parliament in February 2025:

**

As you know, Viktor Yanukovych was elected as president of Ukraine in 2010 on the platform of Ukraine’s neutrality. Russia had no territorial interests or designs in Ukraine at all. I know. I was there off-and-on during these years. What Russia was negotiating during 2010 was a 25-year lease to 2042 for Sevastopol naval base. That’s it. There were no Russian demands for Crimea, or for the Donbas. Nothing like that at all. The idea that Putin is reconstructing the Russian empire is childish propaganda. Excuse me.

If anyone knows the day-to-day and year-to-year history, this is childish stuff. Yet childish stuff seems to work better than adult stuff. So, there were no territorial demands at all before the 2014 coup [in Ukraine]. Yet the United States decided that Yanukovych must be overthrown because he favored neutrality and opposed NATO enlargement. It’s called a regime change operation.

**

Source:

https://consortiumnews.com/2025/02/27/jeffrey-sachs-the-geopolitics-of-peace/

It was only -after- the regime change that the dominoes started to fall.

As I've said many times, I don't see any way that Ukraine can "win" this war, as I don't see any circumstances wherein Russia stops fighting to meet its objectives. As Trump rightly pointed out to Zelensky during their oval office meet, Zelensky's "gambling with World War III", but they can only do so with American support and Trump has made it clear he's not interested.

So perhaps the Trump Administration will finance Ukraine for another 100 days as Vance recently suggested, and Zelensky will finally realize that while he will regain none of the territory he's lost, he -could- hold on to what's left of Ukraine if he finally removes the ban on negotiations with Russia and gets to negotiating an end to this war.

Edited 6 hours ago by Scott75
Added link

[User]

5 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

1- Russia doesn't want a ceasefire, it wants a comprehensive peace plan. Trump is the one who wanted a 30 day ceasefire. 

This is the absolute dumbest lie in the world. That you can even type this up is a disgrace to yourself. 

Russia can have a peace plan at any moment it chooses. Just stop waging war against Ukraine, turn around, go home. 

 

[Scott75]

9 minutes ago, User said:

16 minutes ago, Scott75 said:

1- Russia doesn't want a ceasefire, it wants a comprehensive peace plan. Trump is the one who wanted a 30 day ceasefire.

This is the absolute dumbest lie in the world.

No, it's the truth. Even Zelensky is now pining for a 30 day ceasefire at this point. Putin is having none of it:

https://meduza.io/en/news/2025/04/29/moscow-rejects-proposed-30-day-ceasefire-says-putin-s-three-day-offer-is-only-way-forward-without-preconditions  

11 minutes ago, User said:

Russia can have a peace plan at any moment it chooses. Just stop waging war against Ukraine, turn around, go home. 

Haven't you heard? Russia had referendums in the 4 regions it now mainly controls and they all voted to join Russia. The concept of a "New Russia" has been around since 2014, an idea that rebels in the Donbass area have been considering since that point:

https://newrepublic.com/article/117284/federalized-ukraine-could-mean-return-novorossiya

Ukraine tried to destroy the idea with its 8 year civil war on the Donbass Republics, but it's clearly risen from its ashes:

https://www.eurasiareview.com/13032024-novorossiya-rising-from-ashes-like-phoenix-oped/

The only way I see this changing is if there's a nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia, at which point most people will have larger concerns then who controls what part of Ukraine.