Epstein Series on Netflix

[WestCanMan]

Has anyone else tried to watch the Netflix series about Epstein?

I found it so devoid of useful information that it was too frustrating to watch.

They never talked to the girls about:

• how they got caught up in it,
• they rarely ask how old they were when they were doing it,
• they allow girls to make substantial accusations against public figures with no proof at all,
• they never mention what the age of consent is in the jurisdictions where these things happened,
• they use the word 'abused' without explaining what they mean by it,
• they don't mention if the girls were getting paid,
• they never mention if they were held against their will or if they were forced to do something after they said no, etc. 

I get that there's no excuse for Epstein to pimp out 17 yr olds, but aside from Florida (18) , sex with 17 yr olds is legal in every place mentioned (Eng & NY, but it's also legal here in Canada). How was Prince Andrew's dalliance with her any different than if she was 29? She didn't look sad or hurt in that photo. I'm not feeling the prerequisite amount of righteous wrath on hat one, sorry. 

Is it 'less legal' to have sex with a 17 yr old prostitute than a 24 yr old? A 17 yr old girl could be just as desperate for money as a 24 yr old, they just have less job skills. I think that's sad, but having no money for food and shelter is worse. 

How is it more offensive for a 17 yr old girl to prostitute herself than it is for her to be conned into becoming the baby momma of a 35 yr old? The first one seems better imo, at least she gets something and she's not saddled for life...

If people object to the statutory age for sex at 17 why not change it to 18? Should a 40 yr old man really be allowed to have sex with a 17 yr old under any circumstances? Why?  

They even had a girl on the show who said that she was pimped out at 14, can we have all the particulars please? It seems like a lot of people were guilty of something there, like 25 years worth, each. Maybe even the parents. 

Shouldn't the charge for taking a 14 yr old to a different state to pimp her out be more like kidnapping than pimping? Isn't that totally different from pimping out a 17 yr old? 

So frustrating. I don't think I can watch anymore. 

[Rebound]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:59 PM, WestCanMan said:

Has anyone else tried to watch the Netflix series about Epstein?

I found it so devoid of useful information that it was too frustrating to watch.

They never talked to the girls about:

• how they got caught up in it,
• they rarely ask how old they were when they were doing it,
• they allow girls to make substantial accusations against public figures with no proof at all,
• they never mention what the age of consent is in the jurisdictions where these things happened,
• they use the word 'abused' without explaining what they mean by it,
• they don't mention if the girls were getting paid,
• they never mention if they were held against their will or if they were forced to do something after they said no, etc. 

I get that there's no excuse for Epstein to pimp out 17 yr olds, but aside from Florida (18) , sex with 17 yr olds is legal in every place mentioned (Eng & NY, but it's also legal here in Canada). How was Prince Andrew's dalliance with her any different than if she was 29? She didn't look sad or hurt in that photo. I'm not feeling the prerequisite amount of righteous wrath on hat one, sorry. 

Is it 'less legal' to have sex with a 17 yr old prostitute than a 24 yr old? A 17 yr old girl could be just as desperate for money as a 24 yr old, they just have less job skills. I think that's sad, but having no money for food and shelter is worse. 

How is it more offensive for a 17 yr old girl to prostitute herself than it is for her to be conned into becoming the baby momma of a 35 yr old? The first one seems better imo, at least she gets something and she's not saddled for life...

If people object to the statutory age for sex at 17 why not change it to 18? Should a 40 yr old man really be allowed to have sex with a 17 yr old under any circumstances? Why?  

They even had a girl on the show who said that she was pimped out at 14, can we have all the particulars please? It seems like a lot of people were guilty of something there, like 25 years worth, each. Maybe even the parents. 

Shouldn't the charge for taking a 14 yr old to a different state to pimp her out be more like kidnapping than pimping? Isn't that totally different from pimping out a 17 yr old? 

So frustrating. I don't think I can watch anymore. 

They didn’t ask those stupid questions because normal people know that it’s horrendous to sell girls into prostitution. 
 

The point being, at the time, these girls probably thought it was the best thing that could happen to them and they loved it, because they were too young to understand what they’d gotten themselves into.  And as for any age boundary (driving, alcohol, guns, etc.), of course some people are mature enough that a lower age may be appropriate and others so immature that a higher age is called for, but you’ve got to set some age and that’s all there is to it.  The law is the law and folllow it or face prison. 

Edited January 11, 2024 by Rebound

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

They didn’t ask those stupid questions because normal people know that it’s horrendous to sell girls into prostitution. 

As far as "being a useful program" is concerned, it would be extremely valuable for people to hear, in the girls' own words, how they were conned/manipulated into doing what they did. What emotions were played on. Etc.

Pimps/madames today are using that same script: parents should know it so they can educate children against it. 

It's also important to know how much of a role Ghislaine played, in their own opinion, from their own mouths.

It's important to know what Ghislaine's HS scouts were told and how that scam worked, so parents can prepare their kids for that type of contact. I'd like to hear how the girls were approached, in their own words

It's also important to know if physical threats, threats of actual harm were ever present. Or threats against their family. Or blackmail.  

 

Imagine a girl saying: "I was 16, things were going well, and then I was approached by this girl about a modelling/acting opportunity (popular scam). I went to listen to Ghislaine speak, and the topic was still modelling, and we talked about how much money I'd make. It was intoxicating. Then she started talking about how I could make way more just giving massages, so I listened. She described it as being glamorous, in exotic locations, like luxury hotels and private islands and such, with famous people. And it was all true at first, I actually was in luxury hotels, and modelling a bit, but the next thing you know, I was modelling almost naked, then..... happened. Then Ghislaine and Jeffrey threatened me with blackmail, they took away my passport, showed me a picture of my mom getting into her car in our driveway and told me what would happen to my family if I ever talked... etc.

Compare that to: "I was abused by the famous singer Johnny DeFakedude but I have absolutely no proof." 

I don't even need to hear that second one. I don't. Eventually someone's gonna offer these girls money to say "Mr. ______."

Accusations like that need to be accompanied by flight logs, or a photo of that person on the island, or at a hotel on a certain date, etc. Just something. I'd never watch a show titled "Unsubstantiated Allegations", and that's basically what it was. (Aside from the part about the prince, and maybe Clinton. I'd like them to say when the allegations of child pimping start as well. A year, like 1970, 1990 or 2010. It's hugely important)

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The point being, at the time, these girls probably thought it was the best thing that could happen to them and they loved it, because they were too young to understand what they’d gotten themselves into.  A

Loved what? 

They describe it as abuse. 

The only thing I need to differentiate is if it was something that they consider to have been abuse now, only due to an adult understanding of the legal definition, or if they felt like they were being abused when it was happening. 

There's a big difference between "My lawyer said that was abuse so that's how I describe it" and "I was physically abused and I hated every minute of it - I just wanted to go home". The first thing is 'meh' in my opinion, because what happens to a girl of 17yrs + 11months and a girl of 18 yrs and 1 day is basically the same to me, and the second form of abuse is bordering on death-penalty worthy, especially if it happens to a 14 yr old.

This documentary is basically protecting the pedos if the girls want to say "they hurt me or psychologically terrorized me in order to force me to have sex" but they're only allowed to make specific public accusations. 

In fairness to Netflix, I guess it's a legitimate concern that if they rake these guys too hard, future pedos will just kill the girls and hide the bodies. Somewhat of a balancing act.

Quote

nd as for any age boundary (driving, alcohol, guns, etc.), of course some people are mature enough that a lower age may be appropriate and others so immature that a higher age is called for, but you’ve got to set some age and that’s all there is to it.  The law is the law and folllow it or face prison. 

17 is legal here (probably lower. It was embarrassingly low not very long ago. Maybe 14, or 15? I think it's 16 here now, but maybe on a sliding scale, like 16 is ok with people up to 18, or some such. Whatever.) and in most places, Florida being a rare exception (18). 

If people want to be outraged by 17 yr old prostitutes, I think raising the legal age of sex to 18 is the first step to dealing with that. Especially for men older than say, 20 or 21. I don't think 21 and 17 is outrageous, but 35 and 17 definitely is imo. 

The laws need to make sense, but in any event, our outrage needs to make sense as well. If sex is legal with a 17 yr old, how does it make it worse if they're a prostitute? Sure, let's call it 'worse', but let's not fake an insane amount of outrage. Pimping a 17 yr old is worthy of outrage.