Hasan Ali Tokuqin Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketRocket Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Wow. This could well be very interesting. I recall listening to a science show on CBC radio a few years back about how our brains appear to be "Hard wired" to believe.....in something. It went in depth into beliefs in various religions, and claimed that our brains just seemed to be programmed in such a way that made it very easy for people to believe in certain things that they had never seen, heard, touched or tasted, ie; deities. In other areas, we are prone to doubting anything which we have not witnessed with our own senses. When you consider the vast majority of people who believe in some deity or other, in both organized religions, and a few remaining small, isolated tribal religions, I find this very easy to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Wacky. I was just thinking this morning about belief and faith being a 'collective hallucination', and recalled the name of the 'liquid god' that I theorized existed. I gotta get down to the patent office... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSong Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I think it's hard to tell. because obviously, those who believe to have had religious experience are not going to be convinced by a scientist informing them due to the high levels of this hormone or that chemical that they had an apparition similarly, someone who has not had any experience would then not be convinced by someone saying that things had been revealed to them or they had had a vision. It would also be very rude to ridicule either side for their belief. As Wittegenstein (i think, if i ahve the right philosopher, sorry if not) you cannot laugh at someone else game if you do not understand the rules ie, you cannot laugh at a belief if you do not understand what it is based on. as we can never truly get into someone elses mind and so can never know the influences. I'm as sceptic as they come sometimes, but i don't believe you can rule out the supernatural if you ahev no experience. But then, you cannot make it 'fact' either if you do ahve experience. I felt i had experience of the supernatural once, but i don't know what it may have been. as to being hardwired to believe in something, that's interesting. I wouldn't say that was nature, rather nuture. Like every child (well, almost) is led to believe in father Christams, and when you're 6 it is perfecetly acceptable to believe that Santa can in fact come down the chimney, can eat a mince pie in EVERY house and not seem to explode, adn can carry every present in one night! But that's not a biological requirement, we are just more impressionable when young. I think one way to look at it is many people offer personal evidence of supernatural. people may try to prove it, but there is no way to disprove it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Wow. This could well be very interesting.I recall listening to a science show on CBC radio a few years back about how our brains appear to be "Hard wired" to believe.....in something. It went in depth into beliefs in various religions, and claimed that our brains just seemed to be programmed in such a way that made it very easy for people to believe in certain things that they had never seen, heard, touched or tasted, ie; deities. In other areas, we are prone to doubting anything which we have not witnessed with our own senses. That is interesting. The idea that any sort of behavior would be "hard wired" into the human brain is something that would be explained by survival advantages. Any behavior that's build into human brains would be something that helps a small unit-- a tribe or clan-- survive more effectively. I always think watching how dogs behave is interesting, because pretty much everything a dog does makes sense if you look at it in terms of how a dog would relate to his pack. At heart, your chihuahua is a tiny little wolf in your house and that wolf-pack mentality is still observable in your little Fifi or Poopsy or Shmoopsy or whatever, and your family is his pack. When the family is around the dinner table, your dog is sad, not just because he loves food, but because the rest of his pack is eating and he isn't. Your dog and cat might coexist peacefully, but if mom yells at the cat for messing with her plants or whatever, Fifi immediately gets after the cat too: Fifi detects that an authority dog in his pack has become hostile to Mr Whiskers, and Fifi responds accordingly. This isn't learned behavior, it's just stuff that dogs do because dogs have their own social instincts. Humans likewise have built in social instincts... things relating to attracting and selecting mates, protecting our young, and so on. Is a built-in desire to have religious beliefs another aspect of human instinct? It's certainly not as straightforward as attracting mates or protecting young, but it could be. Stuff that helps unite the clan or tribe might be advantageous to group unity, and therefore a survival advantage. People do seem to grab naturally onto things that unite them with some and divide them from others-- look how easily people attach themselves to a sports team, for instance. We rally ourselves behind those who wear blue and orange sweaters, and declare enmity towards those who wear red and black sweaters!! But rather than fight them for prized hunting land or a lucrative turnip patch as in ancient days, we just battle over rubber disks. Forming these attachments leads to rather illogical behavior in modern times, but once upon a time, forming these associations and going to war to win that hunting-ground would have been something that helped get Kimmy-genes passed on to the next generation-- natural selection. It was a survival advantage for people to band together and take stuff to make their own group stronger. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I felt i had experience of the supernatural once, but i don't know what it may have been.I was touched by an Angel once, but it made me feel 'icky'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Miss Trudeau Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I felt i had experience of the supernatural once, but i don't know what it may have been.I was touched by an Angel once, but it made me feel 'icky'. Did you tell someone you trust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uOttawaMan Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Well hey, George Bush is so amazing that God talks to him and tells him what to do. Oh its true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arif Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 hey, there's an interesting book called "are we getting enlightened, or losing our minds". It tries to distinguish between spiritual experiences and mental illness. One of the themes is that the hallucinations and beliefs or "delusions" accompanying illness states such as mania, for instance, are usually move the person away spiritual growth, whereas those of spiritual experience, like a "kundalini" experience tend to move the person towards spiritual growth. The current DSM has allowed for spiritual experience, including hallucinations and non-ordinary beliefs to be excluded from an illness label. The DSM tends to include a dimension of functionality to most diagnoses anyway, such that to be illness, it must interfere with someone's life. Those that believe in UFO's and aliens and ghosts are not mentally ill, even if their beliefs may be false. So, myself, I've been extremely manic, and those experiences I have described as "terrifying beauty", because of their mystical and sensual euphoria (although even in mania, there were very bad moments). In the short run, they were really destructive, and following them was a kind of "fallout" depression. On the whole, I think I've been able to reconcile the whole course of my illness which ran intermittently for about 5 years until I stuck to medication. I still retain the beauty of some of those experiences, and tried to integrate them somehow into my spirituality, yet I've been humbled enough to know that enlightenment is something more than "experiences". There may be a contextual and historical factor to the prophets, that these experiences happened when they did to the people they happened to, which is maybe how we could see it as divinely destined that they had these experiences, and which were in fact more than the individual growth-generating kind of a "kundalini" experience, as they inspired entire faiths and continue to today. Perhaps the capacity to have these experiences must be present in humanity in order for prophets to appear. So, in some they have a capacity for spiritual experiences, some get ill, and in certain historical contexts, this capacity is channelled in divine revelation. For those who experienced mental illness, I sincerely pray for their recovery, and that they can reconcile their experiences with who they are. That they can maintain a spirituality, and live a stable and fulfilling life. in peace. ARif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Dear I Miss Trudeau, I felt i had experience of the supernatural once, but i don't know what it may have been.I was touched by an Angel once, but it made me feel 'icky'. Did you tell someone you trust? Yes, I told the horny limbless midget I keep in my closet, but she just called me a weirdo and asked me again to go for help. Not sure if she meant for her or me. Just kidding. I wonder who was reading this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with fishes Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reality Sickened by reality, You know that no one knows, The symptoms of insanity, Confusion only grows, Political hypocracy, We all watch in woe, Fools for fowl democracy, To fake to see all is a show, Secrets of sociaty, That no one wants to know, Everyone's to sick to see, That Evil's on the go, They put up walls to hide behind, To still their hellbound fate, With time they control our minds, Atop a headless State. KjwM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel_ Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 or TV sitcom!! oh i love to laugh.... i think, there is more to this then meets the eye, maybe it is neither, or both, as in: higher levels of dimensional experience, or sub-space 'jumps' so to speak. maybe a communication and interaction of brainwaves, recreating an image and feeling that is often overwhelming... a form of telepathy maybe? internal projection, an image projected by the mind and organized by unlocking parts of the brain. an expressional recurrence, demonstrated by the disability 'schizophrenia.' a 'ghost' image perhaps? energy of the living making images from stored data in rocks, personal items, or housing. the transfer of information from a superior being entering the human mind, over whelming the imagery part of the frontal lobe, causing stimulation and intense feelings? or perhaps: god loves you so much, that he'd pick 'that person' to experience it... right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel_ Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reality Sickened by reality, You know that no one knows, The symptoms of insanity, Confusion only grows, Political hypocracy, We all watch in woe, Fools for fowl democracy, To fake to see all is a show, Secrets of sociaty, That no one wants to know, Everyone's to sick to see, That Evil's on the go, They put up walls to hide behind, To still their hellbound fate, With time they control our minds, Atop a headless State. KjwM listen to "system of a down" and hell bound? the worst of their cause is based in secrecy, at least as stated in the above poem... i think 'hell' would be heven compaired to what those who do pettily deserve. my punishment: a clogged apendix ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As new studies are revealing, frontal-lobe epilepsy causes religious hallucinations in believers and non-believers alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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