Stephen Harper, Conrad Black & Richard Perle (aka Darth Vader)

[River_God]

What is Stephen Harper doing at a super-secret Bilderberg meeting of the Western worlds central bankers, defense experts, press barons, royalty, prime ministers, international financiers, industrialists and government officials?

The 2003 guest list includes names such as David Rockefeller, Richard Perle (Iraq war architect, key Bush pupeteer and self-proclaimed Darth Vader), Klaus Schwab (World Economic Forum), Henry Kissinger, the King and Queen of Spain, Paul Wolfowitz (another Iraq war architect and key Bush pupeteer) and a host of other bankers, corporate heads and royalty. Some Canadians in attendance included Conrad Black, Mark Steyn (National Post) Heather Reisman (Chapters-Indigo), Anthony Fell (RBC Dominion Securities) and Stephen Harper, Leader of the Opposition

http://www.cfoss.com/harper.html

Harper, Bush Share Roots in Controversial Philosophy

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush

What do close advisors to Stephen Harper and George W. Bush have in common? They reflect the disturbing teachings of Leo Strauss, the German-Jewish émigré who spawned the neoconservative movement.

Strauss, who died in 1973, believed in the inherent inequality of humanity.

Most people, he famously taught, are too stupid to make informed decisions about their political affairs. Elite philosophers must decide on affairs of state for us.

Political philosopher Shadia Drury is an expert on Strauss, though not a follower. She was a member of Calgary's political science department for more than two decades, frequently locking horns with her conservative colleagues before leaving in 2003 for the University of Regina.

Strauss recommended harnessing the simplistic platitudes of populism to galvanize mass support for measures that would, in fact, restrict rights. Does the Calgary School resort to such deceitful tactics? Drury believes so. Such thinking represents "a huge contempt for democracy," she told the Globe and Mail's John Ibbotson. Harper's 2004 federal election campaign run by Tom Flanagan was "the greatest stealth campaign we have ever seen," she said, "run by radical populists hiding behind the cloak of rhetorical moderation."

In 2003, Harper delivered an important address to a group called Civitas. This secretive organization, which has no web site and leaves little paper or electronic trail, is a network of Canadian neoconservative and libertarian academics, politicians, journalists and think tank propagandists. (Why would Civitas not want to advertise their agenda on a website? Obviously because the public would not find any benefit in that agenda.)

The state should take a more activist role in policing social norms and values, Harper told the assembled conservatives. To achieve this goal, social and economic conservatives must reunite as they have in the U.S., where evangelical Christians and business rule in an unholy alliance. Red Tories must be jettisoned from the party, he said, and alliances forged with ethnic and immigrant communities who currently vote Liberal but espouse traditional family values. This was the successful strategy counselled by the neocons under Ronald Reagan to pull conservative Democrats into the Republican tent.

Movement towards the goal must be "incremental," Harper said, so the public won't be spooked.

Regime change, one step at a time.

===================

Did you know that Conrad Black (former owner of 3rd biggest media empire in the world, including the National Post and dozens of other Canadian newspapers) was working side by side with Richard Perle (architect of the Iraq Invasion, self proclaimed Darth Vader, and key pupeteer behind the Bush administration)

Both of these guys are being indicted over conspiracies involving Hollinger International

The amount of money stolen by Black and his cohort David Radler amounted to $400m, a staggering 95.2% of Hollinger’s net income for that period.

Hollinger went from being an expanding business to becoming a company whose sole preoccupation was generating current cash for the controlling shareholders (This treasury plundering happened in the USA when the neo-cons came to power, and it will happen to Canada if Harper is elected. Remember how quickly Canada went into debt when Mulroney was elected?),

As a result of his involvement on Hollinger’s executive committee, uber-neoconservative Richard Perle, ‘The Prince of Darkness’, sometime Chairman of the Pentagon Defence Policy Board, may soon find himself being fined 5 MILLION DOLLARS

http://www.sourcewatch.org/wiki.phtml?title=Richard_N._Perle

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher...-th_b_9203.html

Arianna Huffington ran for governor of California In 2003 but was defeated by Swartzenegger (another guy quoted as saying that 95% of the people don't know how to think and need to be told what to do)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/black_conrad/

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0...-146196,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Perle

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug31.html

They are part of the big drive to make an AU out of Canada and the US which would include creating a single currency

http://www.ceocouncil.ca/en/north/north.php

The US is a great country in lots of ways, but I don't want to get entangled in anthing that is going to be run by guys like Black and Perle (and Harper).

=============

Stephen Harper QUOTES

Human rights commissions, as they are evolving, are an attack o-n our fundamental freedoms and the basic existence of a democratic society... It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary stuff.

Whether Canada ends up as one national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement is, quite frankly, secondary in my opinion

===========

Richard Perle QUOTES

A year from now, I'll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.

Acknowledge that a more closely integrated Europe is no longer an unqualified American interest.

But if the UN cannot or will not revise its rules in ways that establish beyond question the legality of the measures the United States must take to protect the American people, then we should unashamedly and explicitly reject the jurisdiction of these rules.

Dictators must have enemies. They must have internal enemies to justify their secret police and external enemies to justify their military forces.

Dictatorships start wars because they need external enemies to exert internal control over their own people.

If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us years from now.

Richard Perle

National sovereignty is an obligation as well as an entitlement. A government that will not perform the role of a government forfeits the rights of a government.

The same European governments that hesitated to confront terrorists were more than prepared to oppose us.

There is no doubt that, with the exception of a very small number of people close to a vicious regime, the people of Iraq have been liberated and they understand that they've been liberated.

We must do our utmost to preserve our British ally's strategic independence from Europe.

We should force European governments to choose between Paris and Washington.

[BubberMiley]

CPC supporters will likely respond by saying "My God, that was two years ago. He's a changed man! Calling Harper a neocon is unfair and hurtful."

[BQSupporter]

My god they are trouting this out now.

Guilt by association eh? If thats the new creedo then Martin needs to look out.

"Bilderberg" if I wasn't smart I would say there is some anti semetism in this. Notice two of the three highlighted are Jewish.

Things must really be bad in the Liberal campaign. Desparate even to dig this one up.

The Young Liberals have there work cut out for them this time.

[Shady]

Ho hum, more liberal fear mongering. Didn't like the looks of the latest polls, eh? LOL

[River_God]

My god they are trouting this out now.

Guilt by association eh?

You bet BQ. Guilt by Association plus guilty unless Harper can show that he has changed his ideology in the last 10 years.

Harper does look kind of like a plastic-faced makeover candidate.

[shoop]

You bet BQ. Guilt by Association plus guilty unless Harper can show that he has changed his ideology in the last 10 years.

Harper does look kind of like a plastic-faced makeover candidate.

RG what exatly would Harper have to do to *show he has changed his ideology* in your view?

Ten year old allegations won't fly. Sorry.

Want proof, just look at the polls.

[River_God]

You bet BQ. Guilt by Association plus guilty unless Harper can show that he has changed his ideology in the last 10 years.

Harper does look kind of like a plastic-faced makeover candidate.

RG what exatly would Harper have to do to *show he has changed his ideology* in your view?

You tell me how Harper has changed BQ. He was still making neo-fascist speeches two years ago

[BQSupporter]

Make your mind up Young Liberal Harper is either a neo conservative or a neo fascist.

Your going to have to go back to Liberal smear school to brush up on your smearing tactics if you keep doing this kinda of job tripping over yourself ever mintue you get the chance.

[BubberMiley]

RG what exatly would Harper have to do to *show he has changed his ideology* in your view?

Uh, maybe say he's changed his ideology? He hasn't said that. The CPC election platform doesn't necessarily represent his ideology, especially when it often conflicts with things he's proudly stood for for the past 15 years. The CPC election platform is to get elected. He obviously believes in what he believes in, and you, by denying it, make it seem like his beliefs are worse than they probably are.

[shoop]

What denial? I am saying that he believes in what he says and does here and now.

Why not dig back to Martin's flip flops on Iraq, SSM and ballistic missile defence?

Martin has done what was needed to get him elected.

A minority Conservative government will face a lot of constraints from this so-called *hidden agenda*.

Uh, maybe say he's changed his ideology? He hasn't said that. The CPC election platform doesn't necessarily represent his ideology, especially when it often conflicts with things he's proudly stood for for the past 15 years. The CPC election platform is to get elected. He obviously believes in what he believes in, and you, by denying it, make it seem like his beliefs are worse than they probably are.

[River_God]

RG what exatly would Harper have to do to *show he has changed his ideology* in your view?

Uh, maybe say he's changed his ideology? He hasn't said that. He obviously believes in what he believes in

So you are saying that Harper hasn't changed which means that everthing in my first post is still valid.

By the way neo-conservative and neo-fascist are two words for the same thing.

[shoop]

Politicians change policies over time as circumstances require.

All of the CPCs policies are on their web site. Why not take the time to attack those instead of something a decade old? Or is it that you agree with the current CPC policies?

Neo-con and neo-fascist are reactionary phrases to instill fear of a hidden agenda. Nothing more.

So you are saying that Harper hasn't changed which means that everthing in my first post is still valid.

By the way neo-conservative and neo-fascist are two words for the same thing.

[newbie]

Gee Shoop, I don't see a lot of your con buddies here rebutting this, and you seem a tad bit defensive. Maybe there's more than a grain of truth in River_God's accusations.

[shoop]

Let's see. shady and BQ supporter had my back on this one.

How many would be a lot?

"Grain of truth" - beautiful line. There is more than a grain of truth in the fact that the Liberals are desperate because they are losing this election 15 days out.

Go for the Hail Mary with the last debates. That is all you can really hope for.

Gee Shoop, I don't see a lot of your con buddies here rebutting this, and you seem a tad bit defensive. Maybe there's more than a grain of truth in River_God's accusations.

[tml12]

Politicians change policies over time as circumstances require.

All of the CPCs policies are on their web site. Why not take the time to attack those instead of something a decade old? Or is it that you agree with the current CPC policies?

Neo-con and neo-fascist are reactionary phrases to instill fear of a hidden agenda. Nothing more.

So you are saying that Harper hasn't changed which means that everthing in my first post is still valid.

By the way neo-conservative and neo-fascist are two words for the same thing.

I got your back Shoop!!!

[shoop]

Thanks tml12.

Hey newbie, anything more to add?

Sad, sad Liberal Party of Canada. Official opposition status is their best case scenario at this point. But, only if they are lucky.

[BubberMiley]

Neocon is not a reactionary phrase (neo-fascist certainly sounds like one though). Neoconservative is a common term used by many (some pro, some against) to define political principles that Harper has built his career on. CPC is beginning to sound like a term to define conservatives who will do whatever they can to hide their true beliefs in order to get elected.

[shoop]

BM,

You clearly believe there is a *hidden agenda* within the CPC. No proof, just baseless allegations.

Is that the only thing the Liberals can cite to vote against the CPC.

If so, it has been a winning strategy so far in this campaign.

Neocon is not a reactionary phrase (neo-fascist certainly sounds like one though). Neoconservative is a common term used by many (some pro, some against) to define political principles that Harper has built his career on. CPC is beginning to sound like a term to define conservatives who will do whatever they can to hide their true beliefs in order to get elected.

[BubberMiley]

I believe that there is a civil war in the CPC: neocons versus moderate conservatives; Harper supporters and the anybody-but-Harper former PCers who supported Stronach. To appease the moderates and to get elected, Harper is downplaying his personal beliefs that he very willingly expressed for 15 years in political life. Whether or not his agenda will come to fruition after he is elected depends a lot on how badly he wants to get reelected and how strong the remaining moderates are in the party. So his agenda isn't exactly hidden, since it's been clearly put on the record over the years, but it's certainly being downplayed.

[shoop]

Yeah, that's it. Wow the Liberals really are desperate.

There is plenty of evidence of the Liberal civil war. Warren Kinsella's blog, Sheila Copps' columns. Unnamed leaks reported by "Liberal Party insiders".

What evidence is there of a CPC civil war? BubberMiley says so.

I believe that there is a civil war in the CPC: neocons versus moderate conservatives; Harper supporters and the anybody-but-Harper former PCers who supported Stronach.

[BubberMiley]

I'm not a Liberal. (I need to get that tattoed on my forehead).

There was a large number of anybody-but-Harper people who voted for Stronach. They thought his neocon principles were too extreme. Where are they now? They are being appeased by people like you who will do anything to cover up everything Harper ever said about anything prior to 2004.

[shoop]

Maybe you just need to quit preaching from their hymnbook.

The NDs aren't constantly attacking the CPC this election, neither are the BQ or the Greens.

Thus, it is pretty easy to accept you as a Liberal.

(P.S. Still waiting for your evidence of a civil war in the CPC.)

I'm not a Liberal. (I need to get that tattoed on my forehead).

ETA for the sake of consolidating under one thread, let's continue here.

[BubberMiley]

I don't have evidence. That's why I qualified it with "I think." I think Harper believes strongly in what he believes in. He was willing to help found a political party to advance his beliefs, so I don't think he's willing to go soft on them now.

I also believe the Quebec wing and the Atlantic wing and the Manitoba wing of the CPC are made up largely of PC supporters who are much more moderate. I have no evidence of a civil war, but there are clearly two sides to this party (with Stronach's defection giving ample evidence of that), and the climate is ripe for conflict.

[River_God]

Can you believe that these guys at the Free Dominion. blocked my access to their forum? It only took 5 minutes. The site says that it only accepts pro-conservative discussion but it calls itself the Free Dominion. What a bunch of Twisted Double-Think Fascists.

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopi...p=604951#604951

[BubberMiley]

I think they can do with their site whatever they want to do with their site. Not wanting to listen to dissenting opinions doesn't make them fascist, but it probably makes their site a little boring--all of them agreeing with one another. The only reason I come to MLW is the wide array of CPCers willing to bicker with me. That's what makes debate interesting.