BubberMiley Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 So you must be mad as hell at Harper for indicating he would be willing to include Quebec at the table in international relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honest Politician Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Before you go and vote conservative, do some digging into Harpers past points of view. There are speeches out there that he has made that clearly show his feelings towards this country and the direction he would like to see it go in. The changes you hear him promising now are way left of his true beliefs and are only being promised because he found out last time a platform closer to his true feelings just doesn't sell in Canada. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And what are you proposing Honest Politician? I am well aware of Harper's past. And I am also well aware of how he'll probably govern. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was replying to the original thread post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 So you must be mad as hell at Harper for indicating he would be willing to include Quebec at the table in international relations. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah err, if I only knew how to use that quote feature (I've been here long enough) but you are apparently as opinionated as I am although you are a leftist. Well here are some things to consider: 1) There are Canadian soldiers in Iraq. Although not many (because we have about 30 people in the armed forces that have no budget) but they got sent there anyway secretly... 2) So when the Liberals scolded Mulrooney for corruption, you know lyin' Brian and the like, they secretly were looking up to him and anxiously awaiting to be so much more corrupt that when Auditor General Frasier made her announcement the Liberals were just wetting their bed with the excitement that they might be even more corrupt than Mulrooney (in other words, Turner and Trudeau were corrupt, as was Mulrooney, Chretien bought a majority government, the height of corruption in a democratic society, and that is all OK with you.) 3) The CPC does not hate the list of people you mention. They simply want to bring back civility and values to this country. If you call that hatred, you need to understand that you are so way beyond to the left that Jack Layton is starting to get scared... 4) Enough about SSM. You know it will never be reversed. As for welfare people, if they are out screwing around when they could be working and then looking for taxpayer-funded abortions then I must argue that any sane person would tell them to get the hell out because that is just ridiculous. Any other points of discussion??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Before you go and vote conservative, do some digging into Harpers past points of view. There are speeches out there that he has made that clearly show his feelings towards this country and the direction he would like to see it go in. The changes you hear him promising now are way left of his true beliefs and are only being promised because he found out last time a platform closer to his true feelings just doesn't sell in Canada. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And what are you proposing Honest Politician? I am well aware of Harper's past. And I am also well aware of how he'll probably govern. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was replying to the original thread post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim MacSquinty Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 YAAWN! There's a couple of rats on that ship that have not yet noticed the water is up to their noses. You can keep repeating the same stuff over and over again but it still does not make Harper what YOU believe him to be. But to insult everyone who doesn't believe what you believe only demonstrate televangilist intellect. Your like that TV station that only plays re-runs of 1970's shows, boring and out of touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 So you must be mad as hell at Harper for indicating he would be willing to include Quebec at the table in international relations. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Not one of you CPC types would touch the HEALTH CARE issues I brought up..... You'd like it to fade into the background like the abortion and SSM issues the CPC party has plans for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Not one of you CPC types would touch the HEALTH CARE issues I brought up..... You'd like it to fade into the background like the abortion and SSM issues the CPC party has plans for..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll gladly touch the healthcare issue: Canada currently has two-tier healthcare system. The CPC is willing to bring light to this. The Liberals deny it (yet their budget cuts helped ferment private care and their party leader uses it) and the NDP idealistically says they'll save it (although private care is such an accepted reality at this point I am not sure they could get rid of it). As for abortion it is unlikely the Conservatives would bring up any legislation to change the laws and the same is true for SSM. Anything else troubling you err??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Statesmanship: Harper's famous speeches denouncing Canada, Canadian values, and Canadian people to the Republicans..... Harper refusing to shake Duceppe's hand before the English language debate.... Harper accusing his adversaries of promoting child porn.... when he's out of other things to accuse them of.... Is this the kind of guy you want running your country ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Statesmanship:Harper's famous speeches denouncing Canada, Canadian values, and Canadian people to the Republicans..... Harper refusing to shake Duceppe's hand before the English language debate.... Harper accusing his adversaries of promoting child porn.... when he's out of other things to accuse them of.... Is this the kind of guy you want running your country ????? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Martin refusing to fly Canadian flags in his ships? Define Canadian values... Harper didn't shake Duceppe's hand. The point is what??? The Liberals sure did though...and they fight separation too The child porn thing was stupid but is long in the past... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Statesmanship:Harper's famous speeches denouncing Canada, Canadian values, and Canadian people to the Republicans..... Harper refusing to shake Duceppe's hand before the English language debate.... Harper accusing his adversaries of promoting child porn.... when he's out of other things to accuse them of.... Is this the kind of guy you want running your country ????? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Martin refusing to fly Canadian flags in his ships? Define Canadian values... Nothing to do with statesmanship..... my point was that this guy would be an embarrassment as a leader....Harper didn't shake Duceppe's hand. The point is what??? Well, when they're all supposed to get together and shake hands before the debate, and Harper pulls his hand away every time Duceppe tries to offer his..... It shows that Harper is too immature to act as a statesman on front of a crowd... How about if he had to do international presentations.... and refused to shake hands with only some of the other foriegn statesmen.... The child porn thing was stupid but is long in the past... Not that far back.... weren't the Child Porn Crusaders trying to say that the liberals supported 14 year olds having sex... just last month.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Statesmanship:Harper's famous speeches denouncing Canada, Canadian values, and Canadian people to the Republicans..... Harper refusing to shake Duceppe's hand before the English language debate.... Harper accusing his adversaries of promoting child porn.... when he's out of other things to accuse them of.... Is this the kind of guy you want running your country ????? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And Martin refusing to fly Canadian flags in his ships? Define Canadian values... Nothing to do with statesmanship..... my point was that this guy would be an embarrassment as a leader....Harper didn't shake Duceppe's hand. The point is what??? Well, when they're all supposed to get together and shake hands before the debate, and Harper pulls his hand away every time Duceppe tries to offer his..... It shows that Harper is too immature to act as a statesman on front of a crowd... How about if he had to do international presentations.... and refused to shake hands with only some of the other foriegn statesmen.... The child porn thing was stupid but is long in the past... Not that far back.... weren't the Child Porn Crusaders trying to say that the liberals supported 14 year olds having sex... just last month.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Err, Your post brings nothing new to the debate other than partisanship. Really, YOU didn't address MY health care response (probably because you know how right I am) and Martin not flying flags is all about statesmanship. Is there any other issue you'd like to truly debate??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 tml12 Ask him about Layton wanting to Legalize Marijuana on Pot TV, but he didn't ask the NDP if they thought it was a good idea? Or the fact tht he drives a foreign made car and not a union brother built one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 tml12Ask him about Layton wanting to Legalize Marijuana on Pot TV, but he didn't ask the NDP if they thought it was a good idea? Or the fact tht he drives a foreign made car and not a union brother built one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I try to be nice and start off easy... But apparently the left can't even handle that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaro Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 In answer to the original question it could best be summed up like this: NDP, ideological left: The NDP is willing to sacrifice overall practicality and efficiency to move the country towards a more socially conscience position. The NDP has thus far been the only party to successfully convince most voters that they have any real moral stand. However the NDP by virtue of being the ideological left will scare investors and the markets hurting Canada's economy at a time when we are very fragile because of the collapsing US economy. If you are voting strictly on morality, then the NDP is the way to go however the NDP have stated pretty clearly that they will put Canada back into a deficit position as they believe in the use of the Deficit-GDP ratio. Liberal, practical center: The Liberal party has been in power for 13 years, and has run Canada about as well as it could be run. Really they have only a handful of poor decisions in that time and if a reasonably dispassionate person was to judge them purely on there record then this election would be a landslide. However the Liberals do have some corruption issues, Paul Martian is a very well respected politician that may not survive even if the Liberals are reelected and it is clear that the fiscal restraint that was shown in the past is probably slipping in an attempt to maintain power. The liberals however are not to be taken at face value on many things, they are without a doubt the most politically adept party and really do have a great deal to be arrogant about. This is also the party which wills most likely best deal with the Americans in the coming years. Vote for the Liberals if you believe that morality is secondary to competence, as there policies are undoubtedly the best reasoned and will be the most beneficial for Canada as a whole. Conservatives, ideological right: The Conservatives are the party of protest; they have and point out many problems with the government and the way it is run today. However as policy makers they are the worst of the three by some distance. Harper is the most dishonest of the three leaders and the most politically incompetent, he is also a man who with a decided lack of charisma and backbone. The conservatives also have problems with a small (20%) but vocal minority of hard-core religious fundamentalists within the party that hold significant influence within the party. Largely the party of the uneducated and angry, the conservatives lack almost everything required to form a competent government. However they are also complete outsiders to the current system, there is little doubt that a conservative government would cause the most change of the three, and change is needed periodically. Vote for the Conservatives if you feel that Canada needs a fairly radical change of direction, if you believe that Canada should be more like the US, and/or if you believe that there should be more social policy based upon Christianity in Canada. It’s unfortunate that with the inundation of American political tactics that none of the three parties represents a clear a decisively superior choice. Personally I will be voting Liberal, simply because of there track record and because I don't see Canada moving in a positive direction under either of the other parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml12 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 In answer to the original question it could best be summed up like this:NDP, ideological left: The NDP is willing to sacrifice overall practicality and efficiency to move the country towards a more socially conscience position. The NDP has thus far been the only party to successfully convince most voters that they have any real moral stand. However the NDP by virtue of being the ideological left will scare investors and the markets hurting Canada's economy at a time when we are very fragile because of the collapsing US economy. If you are voting strictly on morality, then the NDP is the way to go however the NDP have stated pretty clearly that they will put Canada back into a deficit position as they believe in the use of the Deficit-GDP ratio. Liberal, practical center: The Liberal party has been in power for 13 years, and has run Canada about as well as it could be run. Really they have only a handful of poor decisions in that time and if a reasonably dispassionate person was to judge them purely on there record then this election would be a landslide. However the Liberals do have some corruption issues, Paul Martian is a very well respected politician that may not survive even if the Liberals are reelected and it is clear that the fiscal restraint that was shown in the past is probably slipping in an attempt to maintain power. The liberals however are not to be taken at face value on many things, they are without a doubt the most politically adept party and really do have a great deal to be arrogant about. This is also the party which wills most likely best deal with the Americans in the coming years. Vote for the Liberals if you believe that morality is secondary to competence, as there policies are undoubtedly the best reasoned and will be the most beneficial for Canada as a whole. Conservatives, ideological right: The Conservatives are the party of protest; they have and point out many problems with the government and the way it is run today. However as policy makers they are the worst of the three by some distance. Harper is the most dishonest of the three leaders and the most politically incompetent, he is also a man who with a decided lack of charisma and backbone. The conservatives also have problems with a small (20%) but vocal minority of hard-core religious fundamentalists within the party that hold significant influence within the party. Largely the party of the uneducated and angry, the conservatives lack almost everything required to form a competent government. However they are also complete outsiders to the current system, there is little doubt that a conservative government would cause the most change of the three, and change is needed periodically. Vote for the Conservatives if you feel that Canada needs a fairly radical change of direction, if you believe that Canada should be more like the US, and/or if you believe that there should be more social policy based upon Christianity in Canada. It’s unfortunate that with the inundation of American political tactics that none of the three parties represents a clear a decisively superior choice. Personally I will be voting Liberal, simply because of there track record and because I don't see Canada moving in a positive direction under either of the other parties. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yaro, Grow up your post makes no sense other than to highlight your huge pro-Liberal bias. Enough is enough. If you want to debate the issues fine. If not, then just grow up... Really, your descriptions are just partisan pandering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoop Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ahhh, there is the rub. The Liberals are so desperate to paint Harper as a *bad guy* they have to resort to out and out lying. Harper did shake Duceppe's hand after the debate. The Liberals, when originally trying to make an issue of this, even admitted as much. As their campaign grows more and more desperate the lies become bigger and more bald-faced. Tick tock Mr. Dithers. 18 more days and counting... Well, when they're all supposed to get together and shake hands before the debate, and Harper pulls his hand away every time Duceppe tries to offer his..... It shows that Harper is too immature to act as a statesman on front of a crowd... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ahhh, there is the rub. The Liberals are so desperate to paint Harper as a *bad guy* they have to resort to out and out lying.Harper did shake Duceppe's hand after the debate. The Liberals, when originally trying to make an issue of this, even admitted as much. As their campaign grows more and more desperate the lies become bigger and more bald-faced. Tick tock Mr. Dithers. 18 more days and counting... Well, when they're all supposed to get together and shake hands before the debate, and Harper pulls his hand away every time Duceppe tries to offer his..... It shows that Harper is too immature to act as a statesman on front of a crowd... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you not see the video of Harper pulling his hands away... Whether or not Harper did shake Duceppe's hand AFTER the debate, he wouldn't do it on camera... We certainly shouldn't put a social retard like Harper as Canada's top man..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 In answer to the original question it could best be summed up like this:NDP, ideological left: .... Liberal, practical center:..... Conservatives, ideological right: ...... Yaro, Grow up your post makes no sense other than to highlight your huge pro-Liberal bias. Enough is enough. If you want to debate the issues fine. If not, then just grow up... Really, your descriptions are just partisan pandering... One has to wonder if you even read Yaro's response.... or understood the words with more than two sylables..... It was a very good response, even though I thought it was unfair to the NDP with the deficit comments, and was much more generous to the CPC than I would have recommended.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
err Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Lets consider health care:Harper: (French language debate) We don't care if it is publicly or privately delivered, as long as it is delivered. Martin: (Pre debates) Refused to agree to NDP demands that new monies (over $40 Billion) to speed up delivery of health care be spent in the PUBLIC system. ... (hence the withdrawl of NDP support) Layton: (from the beginning) Financially support PUBLIC health care. Public monies should only go to private delivery when it is the only possible method of delivery. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Canada already has private healthcare and a full two-tier system. There is no realistic chance for an NDP government. Our best doctors are going to the States. What are you proposing should be done err? Canada may have some private health care. However, the direction that the NDP party, (the party that had to fight the Conservatives (when that's what they were) and the Liberals to get health care for Canadians) would have health care go is the way that the Canada Health Act specifies it has to go.... PUBLIC FUNDS only for PUBLIC DELIVERY. The NDP would not try to stop private health care.... just having taxpayers money pay for private health care. If rich people want to pay the full shot for private services that are publicly available... then let them.... The only way that public funds should go to 'for profit' companies is when the public system cannot deliver the service in a timely fashion. The big idea is to fix the problems, not allow 'for profit' companies to pick our pockets. Canada does not yet have the two-tier system that Harper wants (from French language debate). The reason we are having this election now is because the NDP withdrew support for the government.... specifically because Paul Martin would not guarantee that the $40 Billion injection into our health care system to make it more responsive would be spent in the PUBLIC system.... fixing the problems.... rather that pissing it away on 'for profit' entities.... A solution for truly fixing our health care is to vote NDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Did you not see the video of Harper pulling his hands away... Whether or not Harper did shake Duceppe's hand AFTER the debate, he wouldn't do it on camera... We certainly shouldn't put a social retard like Harper as Canada's top man..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really hate to resort to any mudslinging, though when someone's defense of the current situation (a government under investigation by the RCMP), is calling the opposition leader a social retard, it just becomes so tempting. Remember, Martin is the one that had the Americans fusing after lecturing them on the environment, when his party has been a complete and utter failure on the issue. As far as I know, being a hypocrit is about the least socially acceptable thing you could do. Carrolyn Parrish stepped on a doll of Geroge Bush. How many Liberals have been caught utter anti-American remarks. Or how about the Liberal members that have been heard by the media, telling people to "kiss my ass" (Scott Brison) or Scott Reid's comments like "Alberta can blow me." So please, because Harper didn't shake Duceppes hand, we shouldn't vote for him? Yet we should vote for the Party with a huge record of public disrespect? I'd be embarrased if we re-elected the Liberals. We are already a mockery on the international stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willy Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Well you all have done very poorly. A young person, first time voter comes and asks a simple question and this long list is the result. Back to the party websites he will have to go. I will advise that the Sunday before election day a summary of all the issues will be in your local paper. Good luck with with your first vote. Not one lefty here tried to outline a summary of priorities for either the Liberals or NDP. All they have left is insults and smear. I wonder when the Conservatives find out about my degrees if they will kick me out Yaro. Them being the party of the unthinking red necks. Oh boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 writing to reach you, if you've made it this far, congratulations. As you can see it is a very partisan board. I don't think this is the best place for objective information. My advise is to go to each of the party's websites and try to weed through the rhetoric and negativity. Read the platforms and avoid the attacks. The TV ads are going to get a little nasty, so keep that in mind. Best of luck in your decision. Don't be discouraged. Your vote is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim MacSquinty Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Dear writing: As the father of an 18 year old I'll give you my hints: Talk to your family. whats important to them is almost certainly important to you. Decide what is important to you and do research on what the parties represent. If after deciding what is important to you you realize: The system isn't fair and people are hurting, you're an NDP. The environment is in crisis and the sky could fall tommorrow, you're a green. The world is full of gravy and you're not getting enough, you're a liberal. To many people are getting away with too much, you're a conservative. I hope you found this helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Dear writing:As the father of an 18 year old I'll give you my hints: Talk to your family. whats important to them is almost certainly important to you. Decide what is important to you and do research on what the parties represent. If after deciding what is important to you you realize: The system isn't fair and people are hurting, you're an NDP. The environment is in crisis and the sky could fall tommorrow, you're a green. The world is full of gravy and you're not getting enough, you're a liberal. To many people are getting away with too much, you're a conservative. I hope you found this helpful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice advice Slim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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