Is gang rape a part of Islamic culture?

[Argus]

I keep running across these disturbing stories of gang rapes in Europe involving Muslims and European girls, and some nasty interviews with young Muslim men who say local women are whores anyway, good for only one thing.

Some Muslim immigrants admit their bias quite openly. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are "asking for rape." Apparently, he's not the only one thinking this way. “It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl,” says Hamid. “The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably f*cked before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries.” It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne – this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. “It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore…… girl, I mean;” says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. “Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That’s what I am going to do. I don’t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get f*cked to pieces.”

Oslo Rape Statistics Cause Shock

Western Muslims Rape Spree

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden

Gang Rape Epidemic in Europe

Canada, of course, does not keep any statistics based on the race, religion, or ethnicitiy of the criminals.

[Black Dog]

That's pretty f**king disgusting. Now, as much as I oppose racial profiling or sterotyping, it's abundantly clear that there's a certain breed of Islam that belongs in the dustbin of history.

[kimmy]

While I have nothing to say about muslims or rape, my personal experience indicates that some non-white Canadians seem to have picked up odd ideas about the sexual availability of white women.

I am propositioned much more often by black and arab men than by white men, which is rather astonishing when you consider the proportion of these groups in Edmonton. I can also report that the nature of the propositions is rather different... whereas white guys often attempt to segue into things with some get-to-know-you chit-chat, the black and arab guys far more frequently get straight to the point, with dialogue that's often amusing, crass, vulgar, vile, or even a little intimidating.

Also, I suspect most people my age who visit clubs in any major city in Canada have noticed that there are very few arab girls (if any), but a lot of arab guys (usually wearing gold chains, untucked microfibre sport-shirts, and too much cologne...) and they're trying to score with white women. I would not suggest that the whole ethnic group has this mindset, but there is certainly a subset that does. The quotes in Argus's message sound a lot like behavior I've observed in person.

And, a little off topic, but I have talked with acquaintances who have travelled in the Caribbean and Indonesia, and have said that some locals there also have odd notions about the sexual availability of white women. I don't know... blame American TV?

-k

[kimmy]

*bah! botched editing attempt.*

-k

{nothing to see. move along. move along.}

[PocketRocket]

A truly disturbing, and disturbed, attitude.

Screw all the "white whores" that you can, then marry a well-trained robot.

Just gotta make sure the robot is a virgin when you marry her.

These guys need help.

Castration would be a good start.

[crazymf]

Agreed, plus shoot the bastards too.

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

I really don't care whether white women or any other color of women are involved. If muslims are taught to regard people like this and don't respect our countries laws, they must be dealt with.

I also agree with GW sending boys over there to deal with them in their own countries too.

Kimmy, your racial references disturb me somewhat. BD, I actually unignored you briefly to see what you had said and find that your statement is completely opposite to most of your opinions expressed to date.

The message is clear. We'll be totally understanding of your culture and customs and welcome you with open arms, but don't mess with our white women.

To me, that has clear racist undertones. Be careful going down that road.

[Riverwind]

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

I heard similar stories coming out of France a couple years ago. The difference was the victims were woman of same ethnic group that were repeatedly gang raped and faced ostracization from their community if they dared to report the attacks to the authority.

[kimmy]

Kimmy, your racial references disturb me somewhat.

As I said, I was writing from my personal experiences. The quotes from Argus's article agree with behavior I have personally witnessed from a subset within that ethnic group. I don't presume to judge the whole group based on that behavior, I just assert that the attitudes expressed in that article mesh with attitudes I've personally observed.

The message is clear. We'll be totally understanding of your culture and customs and welcome you with open arms, but don't mess with our white women.

I think what Argus is driving at is that maybe we're being a little too welcoming of a culture and customs that are not compatible with our own values.

-k

[Black Dog]

While I have nothing to say about muslims or rape, my personal experience indicates that some non-white Canadians seem to have picked up odd ideas about the sexual availability of white women.

Gee, I wonder where they get that idea ?

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

A slimeball is a slimeball, regardless of skin tone.

I really don't care whether white women or any other color of women are involved. If muslims are taught to regard people like this and don't respect our countries laws, they must be dealt with.

As should any criminal, regardless of religious belief.

I also agree with GW sending boys over there to deal with them in their own countries too.

Right. Like they dealt with the secular Iraq by helping set up a government spiritually aligned with those progressive types in Iran, or in Afghanistan by getting rid of the anti-woman Taliban and replacing them with the anti-woman Northern Alliance.

Kimmy, your racial references disturb me somewhat. BD, I actually unignored you briefly to see what you had said and find that your statement is completely opposite to most of your opinions expressed to date.

Oh you ignore me? I'll take that as a testament to my outstanding skillz.

The message is clear. We'll be totally understanding of your culture and customs and welcome you with open arms, but don't mess with our white women.

Nooo...the message is clear: your culture and customs are no defence for criminal, antisocial behaviour.

See, unlike the right, progressives oppose stone-age religious attitudes of any colour.

I think what Argus is driving at is that maybe we're being a little too welcoming of a culture and customs that are not compatible with our own values.

Trouble is, how do you know who's compatiable? What does a "good Muslim" look like?

[Biblio Bibuli]

What does a "good Muslim" look like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's sort of like Nessie. A few people claim to have seen her ... but no one can confirm it, so we're not sure.

[Riverwind]

Gee, I wonder where they get that idea ?

Every male in this culture is exposed to the same influences but they do not develop the anti-social attitudes described.

The problem occurs because we are importing people from patriarchal cultures where kids are taught at an early age that western women are whores. We really have to dump this idea that all 'cultures' are equal and start being much more selective about where immigrants come from.

[Black Dog]

Every male in this culture is exposed to the same influences but they do not develop the anti-social attitudes described.

Nor does every Muslim.

But if you start with a certain strain of religious thought with some pretty screwy ideas about gender roles, add a dash of immigrant culture shock and hypersexualized western media images designed to present women as sexually accessible f**k machines, it's easy to see why some groups might develp the attitudes described. Also, it's not like there are no white kids carrying the same attitudes: have you seen the sexual assault statistics?

The problem occurs because we are importing people from patriarchal cultures where kids are taught at an early age that western women are whores. We really have to dump this idea that all 'cultures' are equal and start being much more selective about where immigrants come from.

How about we be more selective about the individual immigrants, rather than discriminate on the basis of ethnic origin.

[crazymf]

but a lot of arab guys (usually wearing gold chains, untucked microfibre sport-shirts, and too much cologne...) and they're trying to score with white women.

Kimmy,

When you paint a picture for us like that, you are at the very least, categorizing, and at the worst, racially profiling these fellows. You insinuate they dress and smell a certain way distinguishing them from everyone else.

Unless you are stating that they are some part of a gang or group, then you are insinuating they are this way because of their religion or race.

???????????? It's that easy to do.

Me though, I'm not racist. I hate everyone the same. Just kidding.

My view is clearer. These guys as individuals must not be able to circumvent our societies laws based on their beliefs and customs. Just like I don't believe Pakkie RCMP officers should be able to wear turbans either, or indian police to wear their hair down their back.

HOWEVER!!!!!

If the radical Muslims keep impressing their lack of respect for our society and laws, and we in turn cannot deal with them using the restraints of our same laws, then it's time for another CRUSADE!! First we'll sweep Europe killing looting and maiming Muslims, push them back through Turkey and meet up with Georges guys in Iraq and finish them all off in the Middle East.

It's really up to them how they want to behave.

[Riverwind]

How about we be more selective about the individual immigrants, rather than discriminate on the basis of ethnic origin.

Why should we bother creating bureaucracy that tries to separate the wheat from the chaff? Severely restricting immigration from certain cultures or ethnic groups is a lot easier to do.

We allow immigration into Canada because it is supposed to benefit Canada - period. If immigration from certain countries brings more problems that benefits then we should stop immigration from those countries.

Immigration is not a social program designed to fix all of the injustice in world (although many on the left seem to think it is). We don't need to be fair or even reasonable when it comes to deciding who can come and who cannot.

[Black Dog]

Why should we bother creating bureaucracy that tries to separate the wheat from the chaff? Severely restricting immigration from certain cultures or ethnic groups is a lot easier to do.

That doesn't make it right, does it?

We allow immigration into Canada because it is supposed to benefit Canada - period. If immigration from certain countries brings more problems that benefits then we should stop immigration from those countries.

Under your scheme, individuals who could benefit Canadian society are S.O.L. if they come from the wrong country.

Immigration is not a social program designed to fix all of the injustice in world (although many on the left seem to think it is). We don't need to be fair or even reasonable when it comes to deciding who can come and who cannot.

No, but we should be smart about it.

My view is clearer. These guys as individuals must not be able to circumvent our societies laws based on their beliefs and customs. Just like I don't believe Pakkie RCMP officers should be able to wear turbans either, or indian police to wear their hair down their back.

Nice racial slur, you piece of crap.

[Argus]

Agreed, plus shoot the bastards too.

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

Every culture's males are protective of its females with regard to foreigners and outsiders, always have been throughout history. However, if you're implying racism, it won't work. For if you say the group in question, with the exact same behavioural patterns, are, say, Russian immigrants, does your anger fade or lessen? Would you have more tolerance for such behaviour? I can't see it, personally.

[Argus]

The message is clear. We'll be totally understanding of your culture and customs and welcome you with open arms, but don't mess with our white women.

Nooo...the message is clear: your culture and customs are no defence for criminal, antisocial behaviour.

See, unlike the right, progressives oppose stone-age religious attitudes of any colour.

That would be a more acceptable answer if it were not the "progressives" in all these countries who are trying to downplay the statistics, trying to hide the truth and trying to make excuses.

[Argus]

The problem occurs because we are importing people from patriarchal cultures where kids are taught at an early age that western women are whores. We really have to dump this idea that all 'cultures' are equal and start being much more selective about where immigrants come from.

How about we be more selective about the individual immigrants, rather than discriminate on the basis of ethnic origin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If we know that the people of a given culture will have a harder time adjusting to life in Canada, will have a harder time succeeding economically, will be involved in criminal activity at a higher rate than those of the majority of other newcomers, why would we not decide to slow the number of people coming from that country?

If you, in any other case, involving anything else, were able to determine that a given... toaster... car, airplane, toilet bowl cleaner, television, or whatever, had a significantly higher failure rate than other types, would you still buy it if you had a choice and the prices were equal? If you knew that a car had a worse safety record than the otheres, that a restaurant had been cited much more often than others for safety violations, that a certain surgical technique was more likely to fail, would you still, given a choice, go with them? Why? Why should we?

Canada is not obligated to be nice to foreigners who have no relation with us. We are not obligated to give them all an equal shot at immigrating. Our immigratoin system should be designed purely to benefit Canada as much as possible. That means that we should be choosing immigrants who give us the most benefit for the least cost and the least social upheaval. Why is that not obvious to you? We should be going after people who are as skilled/educated as possible, and as young as possible, with the best attitudes to fit seamlessly into our nation without undue difficulty and expense.

[Argus]

We allow immigration into Canada because it is supposed to benefit Canada - period. If immigration from certain countries brings more problems that benefits then we should stop immigration from those countries.

Under your scheme, individuals who could benefit Canadian society are S.O.L. if they come from the wrong country.

So what? Again, the system should be designed and run for our benefit alone. If we can get enough succesful immigrants from other countries why should we not ignore a country whose immigrants have a far higher failure rate than others?

The problem for the left, is that the nations which contain the immigrants who would be most likely to fit into Canada with the fewest problems are almost all White. But skin colour really has nothing to do with this. I would not prefer Polish immigrants to Egyptian immigrants because the Poles are White, but because I believe they would, as I've already said, fit far more easily into our society, with fewer disturbanes and social upheaval, and be more likely to integrate themselves and their children much more quickly and happily.

Given a choice, would I rather have 10,000 Vietnamese immigrants or 20,000 Japanese immigrants? Clearly, the latter, for I think they are more sophisticated, more civilized, more educated and are far less likely to cause difficulties.

Would I rather have 10,000 Somalians or 20,000 American or British Blacks? Clearly the latter, for obvious reasons (assuming, of course, we're dealing with fairly educated middle class blacks).

It just flat out isn't a matter of colour - except to those progressives, who can't get beyond the colour of an immigrant's skin.

[crazymf]

Agreed, plus shoot the bastards too.

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

Every culture's males are protective of its females with regard to foreigners and outsiders, always have been throughout history. However, if you're implying racism, it won't work. For if you say the group in question, with the exact same behavioural patterns, are, say, Russian immigrants, does your anger fade or lessen? Would you have more tolerance for such behaviour? I can't see it, personally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Argus,

We're argueing pennies here when there's dollars involved. Of course there's racism in the remarks made. Check the definition, especially #2

The noun racism has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Meaning #2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

Synonyms: racialism, racial discrimination

The whole context of the thread is 'muslim' presumably arab brown skinned men raping the white whores of the west. Kimmy admits she trolls the night clubs and has firsthand experience about the brown stereotypical people with certain shirts and fragrances. How more racial can it get?

[Melanie_]

In answer to your question, is rape a part of Islamic culture, I'll ask you to consult the Koran. Show me where the Koran endorses rape, and you'll have your answer.

[crazymf]

Yeah. These guys are probably to muslims what Timothy McVeigh was to Christianity.

Whacko radicals that have taken the wrong path of life using religion as a basis of their actions.

[kimmy]

The whole context of the thread is 'muslim' presumably arab brown skinned men raping the white whores of the west. Kimmy admits she trolls the night clubs and has firsthand experience about the brown stereotypical people with certain shirts and fragrances. How more racial can it get?

I do not "troll" nightclubs. However, I've spent enough time in such places, as both a patron and as an employee, to have a good idea of what I'm talking about, and I expect that most people who've spent any amount of time in a nightclub in any major city probably know what I'm referring to.

As for the rest... if there's some situation where a certain group commits a grossly disproportionate share of crime or antisocial behavior, should we avoid discussing that if their pigmentation differs from our own? To me that doesn't seem like it would be to anybody's benefit.

-k

[Argus]

Agreed, plus shoot the bastards too.

What I find strange is the aggression shown toward our brown brothers when there's a mention of 'white women' being involved. No longer do I hear about compassion and understanding of different cultures.

Every culture's males are protective of its females with regard to foreigners and outsiders, always have been throughout history. However, if you're implying racism, it won't work. For if you say the group in question, with the exact same behavioural patterns, are, say, Russian immigrants, does your anger fade or lessen? Would you have more tolerance for such behaviour? I can't see it, personally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Argus,

We're argueing pennies here when there's dollars involved. Of course there's racism in the remarks made. Check the definition, especially #2

The noun racism has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races

Meaning #2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

Synonyms: racialism, racial discrimination

First of all, you seem confused about what a race is. Muslims are not a race. "Brown skinned people" are not a race. A strict definition in such simplistic terms is not really meaningful. If I resent a group of people due to their behaviour - resenting anyone due to that behaviour - that has nothing to do with racism per se. I don't even think the Muslims who believe their way of life is superior to be racist. They're ignorant and bigoted, true, but their actions are not based on race.

The whole context of the thread is 'muslim' presumably arab brown skinned men raping the white whores of the west.

A clash of cultures, in other words, a clash between a culture which still strictly worships and abides by the ancient creeds in an ancient text, and a culture which long ago softened its interpretation of their holy book's words and relaxed their strict worship. A few hundred years ago, after all, the Europeans would agree that women behaving as women do today were whores.

Again, you seem incapable of getting over the fact that there are different skin pigementations involved, even though that really has no place in the discussion, as such. It is behaviour we're discussing, well, I'm discussing - you seem to be more interested in talking about skin colours.

Kimmy admits she trolls the night clubs and has firsthand experience about the brown stereotypical people with certain shirts and fragrances. How more racial can it get?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what she admitted to was being young and female. I don't know of any young females who don't occasionally go out to bars and nightclubs - but perhaps things are different on your planet. And once again, what she described was a different culture, and its clash with what we consider to be proper and civilized behaviour - which you have once again simplistically reduced to "brown skinned people".

[Argus]

In answer to your question, is rape a part of Islamic culture, I'll ask you to consult the Koran. Show me where the Koran endorses rape, and you'll have your answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..." Koran 4:24

In one of the tales of Muhammed's conquest of non-Islamic lands we read the following:

Mohammed attacked the Banu-L-Mustaliq because of their wealth. In a surprise raid, the Muslims drove them to the Sea. They slaughtered many members of the Banu-N-Mustaliq Tribe and looted away a booty of 2000 Camels, 5000 Sheep and 500 Women! 500 women were captured screaming and crying after they had watched their husbands and sons being slaughtered. The most beautiful captive was Juwayriyya, daughter of the chief of the Banu-L-Mustaliq. Mohammed snatched her to satisfy his own animal lust. The captured women were supposed to be returned by the Muslims upon payment of a ransom. But the night after the battle itself, Mohammed and his army raped each and every one of them. One of the men Abu Sa'id Khudri of Mohammed's army reported :

"We were lusting after women and chastity had become too hard for us, but we wanted to get the ransom money for our prisoners. So we wanted to use the "Azl" (Coitus Interruptus- where the man withdraws before ejaculating)...We asked the Prophet about it and he said: "You are not under any obligation to stop yourselves from doing it like that.." Later on the women and children were given for ransom to their envoys. They all went away to their country and not One wanted to stay although they had the choice.."

Chapter 33 verse 50 of the Koran:

"O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage a privilege for thee only, not for the [rest of] believers. We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hand possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

But in any event, the question did not ask "Is this part of the teachings of the Koran" but "Is this part of Islamic culture" ie, is this something which seems to be a part of the culture of the Islamic world?