GUNS SAVE LIVES EVERY YEAR

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG that's comical/scary. 

I wonder why no one has ever used one for a mass shooting in the US before... Seems way easier than carrying a bunch of 30s. 

Because they  suck for reliability as a rule like i mentioned.  look at the thing - it's a twin double stack (one on each side) that has to 'zipper' into two single stack feeds that then have to merge into a single feed for the gun itself.  There's so many points of problems there that it's not funny.

Honestly - there is a REASON that drum mags never really became that popular for firearms. THey have inherent issues at the best of times. Rotary mags are about the closest you get these days as far as  reliability goes and even those are fairly rare.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

not really

for example, a 12 gauge slide action shotgun is perfectly legal in Canada

and since you can load by the breech, there is no magazine capacity limit

you can keep blasting away with a Remington 870 in Canada

until you run out of rounds in your rucksack

It has nothing to do with loading by the breech.  There's no mag limits on ANY firearm in canada except semi autos. You can have a 600 round mag on a bolt action if you can figure out how to make that work

 Semi -auto shotguns DO have a mag limit. 5 rounds same as any other semi auto.

And the limit is actually on the mag, rather than the gun.  Any mag that can fit into a semi auto must be restricted to 5 rounds of ammo for which the gun is made.

Edited July 17, 2023 by CdnFox

[CdnFox]

BTW - on the subject of mag capacities,

In canada all magazines that are able to fit into a semi auto firearm (with the exception of 22's) are restricted and that's it. 

5 rounds if it can fit into a rifle, 10 if it can fit into a pistol. 

But - even in canada there are so many ways around that,

For example, if a Pistol magazine can fit into a carbine rifle, that's fine. I have a rifle that can shoot 10 rounds because it's made to use Glock magazines.

If the magazine can hold different ammunition then it can often hold more.  For example a shotgun that is semi-automatic which is chambered in 3.5 in Shells can only hold five rounds, but if you put in two and three quarter inch shells you can often hold up to seven and that's perfectly legal.

There is a type of AR-15 that is chambered for a cartridge known as the Beowulf. Those magazines fit in a regular AR -15. However, due to the size difference in the shells you can fit 10 rounds of regular AR-15 ammo into a Beowulf magazine. And it will work just fine in a normal AR. So once again you have exceeded the technical limit and can have 10 round magazines.

And you can also have magazines capable of 30 rounds in Canada provided there is a pin driven through them to limit the number of rounds to five. It would take about 8 seconds to remove that pin.  So a bad guy could have 10 of these magazines all perfectly legal and then take 15 minutes to convert them to 30 round magazines to go commit crimes if he wanted.

 

The whole thing is beyond stupid

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It has nothing to do with loading by the breech.  There's no mag limits on ANY firearm in canada except semi autos. You can have a 600 round mag on a bolt action if you can figure out how to make that work

 Semi -auto shotguns DO have a mag limit. 5 rounds same as any other semi auto.

And the limit is actually on the mag, rather than the gun.  Any mag that can fit into a semi auto must be restricted to 5 rounds of ammo for which the gun is made.

it's just much easier to load a shotgun by the breach than a bolt action rifle

shotgun is one handed loading, bolt action requires cycling the action

Edited July 17, 2023 by Dougie93

[CdnFox]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

it's just much easier to load a shotgun by the breach than a bolt action rifle

Maybe -  i would argue that clips change that game   but - regardless the law with regards to mag caps in canada only applies to magazines that function in semi autos.  And even then only for the ammo the mag was designed to hold - if a semi auto shotgun is chambered in 3.5 then you can put more rounds into it legally if you shoot shorter shotshells.  Thats why you see so many semi autos in canada chambered for the longer round  

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Maybe -  i would argue that clips change that game

the bolt action is cycled with your right hand, so it requires you to come out a fire position to reload

with the shotgun, you can load with your left hand while holding the gun in your right

this allows to shoot & reload on the move

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

I wonder why no one has ever used one for a mass shooting in the US before...

the Las Vegas mass shooter just brought more guns

he fired 1,058 rounds from fifteen guns

twelve AR15's, two AR10's, then he shot himself with a Smith & Wesson revolver

 

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the Las Vegas mass shooter just brought more guns

he fired 1,058 rounds from fifteen guns

twelve AR15's, two AR10's, then he shot himself with a Smith & Wesson revolver

 

The left will claim that's proof we need to ban handguns.

[reason10]

19 hours ago, Rebound said:

How many lives are saved because the gun held 100 rounds? How many lives saved because the gun was an AR-15 rifle and not a handgun? 

There is no hand gun or rifle that holds 100 rounds. The combat 60 caliber is where belts of bullets are fed into it, and enemy personnel are easily dispatched.

It is a combat weapon and no SECOND AMENDMENT advocate is pushing to get this in the hands of non military personnel.

To answer your question about the AR15.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/03/14/8-times-law-abiding-citizens-saved-lives-ar-15/

1. Harris County, Texas (2013)

A 15-year-old boy saved both his life and the life of his 12-year-old sister by fending off a pair of home invaders with his father’s AR-15.

2. Rochester, New York (2013)

Two armed burglars retreated from a college student’s apartment after coming face-to-face with an unloaded AR-15. The rifle itself instilled enough fear to cause them to flee.

3. Ferguson, Missouri (2014)

During the Ferguson, Missouri, riots, nearly all businesses within a particular 2-square-mile area of the city were looted or destroyed—except for one. African-American men guarded the gas station and convenience store of a white friend from looters and rioters. They did so armed with an AR-15, a MAC-10 “machine pistol,” and a variety of handguns.

4. Houston, Texas (2017)

A target of a drive-by shooting successfully fended off the attack by using his legally owned AR-15 against his three armed attackers. He was able to hit all three men in the moving vehicle.

5. Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017)

A homeowner’s 19-year-old son used an AR-15 to defend himself against three would-be burglars who broke into the home in broad daylight. The 19-year-old was later determined to have acted in justifiable self-defense.

6. Sutherland Springs, Texas (2017)

After a gunman opened fire on congregants inside First Baptist Church, a man living near the place of worship grabbed his AR-15 and engaged the shooter. The shooter subsequently dropped his own firearm and fled the scene as the courageous neighbor pursued him.

7. Oswego, Illinois (2018)

A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack on a pregnant woman. The rifle’s “intimidation factor” was credited as a reason why the attacker dropped his knife.

8. Catawba County, Illinois (2018)

After his 17-year-old relative successfully used his own firearm to fend off three would-be robbers who attacked him in the driveway of his home, a man used his AR-15 to stop a threat from one of the would-be robber’s upset family members.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defensive-ar-15-uses/

1. A deputy with an AR-15 saved a teenage girl from an alligator (2018)

2. A guy with an AR-15 defended himself and three others from a gang of seven masked and armed criminals (2018)

3. A good neighbor with an AR-15 stopped a stabbing without firing a shot (2018)

4. Three Hawaiians with an AR-15 chased away three attackers (2018)

5. A Texan with an AR-15 took down three drive-by shooters, emerging unscathed (2017)

6. An NRA Member with an AR-15 chased and shot down the Sutherland Springs shooter (2017)

7. A teenager with an AR-15 defended himself from three armed home invaders (2017)

8. Black guys with an AR-15 (and other guns) stood guard outside a white friend’s small business in Ferguson, Missouri (2014)

9. A 15-year-old with an AR-15 defended himself and his 12-year-old sister from two home invaders  (2013)

10. A man with an AR-15 defended himself and his wife from an assailant who forcibly followed them into their home (2013)

There are probably hundreds more stories about lives saved by guns. You only asked about the AR 15 because it is a military looking rifle that is marketed to civilians. Scares the gun grabbers. These are but a few instances where  lives would have been lost if it weren't for this miraculous piece of hardware. I have to continually ask the gun grabber why THESE PEOPLE DESERVED TO DIE.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, reason10 said:

There is no hand gun or rifle that holds 100 rounds.

There is.  but generally it makes the gun worse rather than better.  Prone to jams, heavy, etc.

[reason10]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

There is.  but generally it makes the gun worse rather than better.  Prone to jams, heavy, etc.

I just found this one.

Not exactly something easily concealed.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, reason10 said:

I just found this one.

Not exactly something easily concealed.

Well that is an excellent example  of a 'worse gun'  LOLOL

However - how many rounds a firearm holds is dependent on it's magazine. Put on a bigger magazine and you have more rounds, pretty simple.

So - here's a few 100 round magazines that fit an ar 15  - any one of these makes the ar 15 hold 100 rounds.

But as you'll see, in order to make it work the magazines have to be very complex, double or triple stacking the ammo etc.  Which leads to failures.  And - 100 rounds is heavy even if it's 5.56 nato.  So - you go from a light fast maneuverable gun to a brick.  People don't use them and for good reason. They're fun at the range, they're a bit of a novelty - but it takes the blink of an eye to swap mags with a bit of practice so there's really no point.

 

[reason10]

[Guest]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

There are probably hundreds more stories about lives saved by guns.

Probably thousands more by thide taken by them.

I however know you have a point if we are discussing legal handguns vs illegal ones. 

Most lawful gun owners, will be responsible with their weapons.

I can only speak for myself, but last thing I would want is a child or my wife to get hurt by something I bought to protect the family.

I am as a result overkill protective with how safely I store weapons.

I know someone who fully disassembles his guns when he gets home. He can put it back together quickly, but this adds a layer of protection in the highly unlikely event one of his kids put their hands on one.

I am not worried about a gun. Am worried about someone up to no good with one.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I know someone who fully disassembles his guns when he gets home. He can put it back together quickly, but this adds a layer of protection in the highly unlikely event one of his kids put their hands on one.

That IS overkill and more than a little silly.   A good gun safe and a decent trigger lock is more than enough, if a kid can get past that they're going to figure out how to assemble the gun.

But - basic safe storage and self defense do not have to be incompatible, thats for sure. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That IS overkill

His wife was willing to divorce over guns inside the house. This was his way to show how safe his guns were. She doesn't realize the level of sarcasm behind the gesture.

But you're right, but love makes you do some crazy things.

My wife hates weapons, but I do remind her I am designated to confront a thief, so until she is, I get to choose what weapon they get greeted with.

I am nice with the hands, but remember a movie scene where someone did knife tricks with a set of swords to show how dangerous taking another step would be to scare a cowboy, and got shot in the head.

Funny in the movie. Not so much face to face with a thief.

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

His wife was willing to divorce over guns inside the house. This was his way to show how safe his guns were. She doesn't realize the level of sarcasm behind the gesture.

Snicker

Quote

But you're right, but love makes you do some crazy things.

 

I had noticed that from time to time

Quote

My wife hates weapons, but I do remind her I am designated to confront a thief, so until she is, I get to choose what weapon they get greeted with.

And fair enough    where i come from women have a bit of a different attitude.  Giving your wife a shotgun when you get married is your way of saying "I will never cheat on you or hit you"

There's an old joke - a woman comes home and finds her husband in bed with another woman, so she grabs her shotgun and shouts "I'M GONNA BLOW YOUR BALLS OFF!!!!"   He screams and says "Wait, honey, just give me a chance!!!"  She says "Ok - Swing 'em"

[reason10]

Probably thousands more by thide taken by them.

I provided some actual instances. And they are probably not the only ones. If you'd like to show some stats of MORE people being killed by guns they stole from other gun owners, we'll wait  patiently for you to do the homework I did.

I however know you have a point if we are discussing legal handguns vs illegal ones. Most lawful gun owners, will be responsible with their weapons.I can only speak for myself, but last thing I would want is a child or my wife to get hurt by something I bought to protect the family. I am as a result overkill protective with how safely I store weapons.

I don't expect you to believe this, but I absolutely LOATHE all firearms. I will not allow one inside my house unless it is accompanied by a deputy sheriff or police officer. I was an avid gun owner in the 80s and now I want nothing to do with them. However, I recognize everyone else's CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS to bear arms.

The purpose of this thread is to respond to a totally IDI0TIC thread about gun killings in this country. The difference is that the gun killings thread  provided just some left wing opinion rag with the information. I provided actual cases of situations where ownership of a firearm SAVED LIVES.

There is a reason why I live in a very small  Florida town, where it is generally peaceful and there is no need to act like an episode of Yellowstone. I have daughters and a grand daughter, and I'd like to see them continue to breathe and enjoy this beautiful place. That's why we moved from the Orlando area.

Right now, I'm pretty safe and I'm doing it without an arsenal.

[Dougie93]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

  i would argue that clips change that game

don't get me wrong

in the hands of an expert shooter, the bolt action rifle is the deadliest option of all

the Sniper is the most lethal infantryman on the battlefield

the state of the art being the Finnish Sako TRG M10

recently selected by the Canadian Army to replace the PGW-DTI C14 Timberwolf

however, in terms of close combat, in the Canadian context

wherein the Government of Canada denies you the use of an automatic rifle

the 12 gauge slide action shotgun, optimally a Remington 870 Tactical, remains the next best option

it does require more training & practice than the AR15

but thankfully, Travis Haley & Chris Costa provide, by way of Magpul Dynamics

[CdnFox]

47 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

don't get me wrong

in the hands of an expert shooter, the bolt action rifle is the deadliest option of all

the Sniper is the most lethal infantryman on the battlefield

the state of the art being the Finnish Sako TRG M10

recently selected by the Canadian Army to replace the PGW-DTI C14 Timberwolf

however, in terms of close combat, in the Canadian context

wherein the Government of Canada denies you the use of an automatic rifle

the 12 gauge slide action shotgun, optimally a Remington 870 Tactical, remains the next best option

it does require more training & practice than the AR15

but thankfully, Travis Haley & Chris Costa provide, by way of Magpul Dynamics

LOL - still have all the art of the shotgun vids   Loved 'em.

Shotguns are a personal favorite.  I've owned every gauge from 410 to 10, still have bout 15 shotguns in the locker, shot competition, skeet, ducks geese coyotes, bear, deer, a microwave that REALLY had it coming (it knows what it did), gophers, targets aplenty and more than my share of pumpkins.  I've shot them in pump, semi, lever, doubles, singles and even a bolt once.   And i've been a regular follower of TAOFLEDERMAUS  since his youtube channel started.

The fight over 870's and 500's will probably be still hot and heavy after we're dead.  I own both, love 'em both, i can see why people fight over it.

Miss my grandad's model 12.  Just hold the trigger and every time you rack the action it goes boom. Fastest shotgun in the world for many many years. 

For recoil sensitive shooters an ar might be a better choice but for them as knows how to use 'em and feels comfortable with them, a 12 guage is pretty damn hard to beat.