United Church and Politics

[scribblet]

I thought the churches were not supposed to be involved in politics, or is it only the churches who agree with liberals and NDP?

Church urges PM to demand withdrawal of troops from Iraq

Last Updated Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:08:54 EST

CBC News

INDEPTH: Iraq

The church issued an open letter to Martin on Wednesday saying the foreign military occupation of Iraq must end.

"We implore the Government of Canada and the international community to call for the full withdrawal of coalition forces from Iraq," the letter reads.

It goes on to say: "We further implore the Canadian government to use all diplomatic means to press the Iraqi government to take appropriate legal and just actions regarding detainees held in Iraqi detention facilities."

The letter also expresses the church's prayers for the safe release of the four hostages, including two Canadians.

James Loney, 41, and Harmeet Singh Sooden, 32, as well as Briton Norman Kember, 74, and American Tom Fox, 54, were taken hostage on Nov. 26.

Loney is from Toronto and Sooden has lived in Montreal.

A group calling itself the Swords of Righteousness Brigades had threatened to kill all four by Dec. 10 unless the U.S. and Britain freed all Iraqi prisoners. That deadline came and went and there's been no word on the hostages since.

"Like many Christians around the world, we have offered our prayers for their safe release," the United Church letter says.

"Four men came to Iraq with Christian Peacemaker Teams to work for human rights. Unfortunately, they were kidnapped."

]http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/22/United-Church-letter-051222.html

[PocketRocket]

I thought Loney was from Sault Ste Marie.

I live in Sudbury (3 hrs from Sault), and stuff about him and his family has been all over the regional news here.

[Argus]

I thought the churches were not supposed to be involved in politics, or is it only the churches who agree with liberals and NDP?     

Church urges PM to demand withdrawal of troops from Iraq

Last Updated Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:08:54 EST

CBC News

INDEPTH: Iraq

The church issued an open letter to Martin on Wednesday saying the foreign military occupation of Iraq must end.

"We implore the Government of Canada and the international community to call for the full withdrawal of coalition forces from Iraq," the letter reads.

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

Can you imagine anything stupider than the Canadian government running around the world "imploring" the coalition nations in Iraq to run away and leave the place in chaos because two idiots went there and got kidnapped?

[speaker]

have you heard the expression, "render unto Ceasar" ? so if our August leader needs a little helpful advice I would expect all churches and religions to be as forthcoming as they can.

It can't be a really stupid idea to pull an invasion force out of a country, even if it does leave it in chaos. Primarily because it was wrong to invade in the first place, second because people are dying who are trying to change the chaos into a society who have nothing to do with the invasionary force, and third the invasion forces have got chaos.

I say congratulations to the church for being honest with people and expressing their priorities.

[August1991]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

Can you imagine anything stupider than the Canadian government running around the world "imploring" the coalition nations in Iraq to run away and leave the place in chaos because two idiots went there and got kidnapped?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree, Argus. But this is the time of year when media pay attention to such letters.

[i wonder what weird event will appear this year during the media lull of Christmas.]

As to these two characters in Iraq, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who goes to Iraq right now is fully and entirely responsable for whatever happens. Between a kid waiting in an ER on Christmas Day and these two characters stuck in Iraq, I know where I think the government should spend the money.

[Riverwind]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

The only requirement to be Christian is a belief in Jesus and his message. The United Church definitely meets that criteria even if you disagree on their interpretation of his message. In my opinion, the United Church does a better job of following Christ's message than most other Churches.

[Argus]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

The only requirement to be Christian is a belief in Jesus and his message. The United Church definitely meets that criteria even if you disagree on their interpretation of his message. In my opinion, the United Church does a better job of following Christ's message than most other Churches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you approve of their politics. Phht. The UC does not care to observe any message of Christ unless it is convenient and politically correct to do so. That's why it's the church of convenience for those who don't want their lives distracted by uncomfortable strctures and restrictions. You can be a UC member in good standing no matter what you do or what you believe. Does the bible prohibit something you want to do? No problem! We'll ignore that part. Does the Bible say things you're supposed to do and don't want to? No problem! We'll overlook that part! The UC is an example of an organziation which has bent itself over so far backward to accomodate people it no longer stands for anything.

[Riverwind]

Because you approve of their politics.

Actually, I don't.

Does the Bible say things you're supposed to do and don't want to? No problem! We'll overlook that part! The UC is an example of an organization which has bent itself over so far backward to accommodate people it no longer stands for anything.

Most of the old testament was written to meet the needs of a semi-nomadic sheep herders living 4000 years ago. Every Christian selectively ignores those parts of the Bible which are not convenient. The only difference between denominations is which parts get ignored. The United Church does a better job than most when it comes living up to the principles which it believes are the core of Christianity. Just because you don't like those principals does not mean they don't have any.

[newbie]

Because you approve of their politics.

Actually, I don't.

Does the Bible say things you're supposed to do and don't want to? No problem! We'll overlook that part! The UC is an example of an organization which has bent itself over so far backward to accommodate people it no longer stands for anything.

Most of the old testament was written to meet the needs of a semi-nomadic sheep herders living 4000 years ago. Every Christian selectively ignores those parts of the Bible which are not convenient. The only difference between denominations is which parts get ignored. The United Church does a better job than most when it comes living up to the principles which it believes are the core of Christianity. Just because you don't like those principals does not mean they don't have any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right on the money Spar.

[canuckcat]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

That's very sad... what kind of a person would say that about a Canadian Christian church on Christmas Eve? Your heart must be as hardened as your prostate...

[I Miss Trudeau]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you approve of their politics. Phht.

A little self critical thought, please!

[I Miss Trudeau]

The United Church does a better job than most when it comes living up to the principles which it believes are the core of Christianity. Just because you don't like those principals does not mean they don't have any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to agree. Most Christian denominations seem to suffer from a "forest for the trees" problem. The UC is the closest mainstream Christian church to Jesus' teachings.

[scribblet]

You seem to be missing the point that 'fundamentalist' churches are castigated regularly for supposedly interfering in politics, in fact there is a campaign underway to have their tax exempt status removed. My point is that the United Church doesn't get its hand slapped when it steps into the fray, and this is not the first time.

BTW I consider the U.C. the NDP of prayer.

Merry Christmas by the way to you all

[Argus]

Because you approve of their politics.

Actually, I don't.

Does the Bible say things you're supposed to do and don't want to? No problem! We'll overlook that part! The UC is an example of an organization which has bent itself over so far backward to accommodate people it no longer stands for anything.

Most of the old testament was written to meet the needs of a semi-nomadic sheep herders living 4000 years ago. Every Christian selectively ignores those parts of the Bible which are not convenient. The only difference between denominations is which parts get ignored. The United Church does a better job than most when it comes living up to the principles which it believes are the core of Christianity. Just because you don't like those principals does not mean they don't have any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isn't that I don't like those principles, it's that I don't see any of them being employed. Perhaps you could tell me what those principles are? I don't regard a sort of loose, touchie-feelie, love everyone, be nice and kind and respectful to everyone even if they're Adolph Hitler clones as being principled. Jesus preached love of others but he still drove the money changers from the temple.

[Argus]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

That's very sad... what kind of a person would say that about a Canadian Christian church on Christmas Eve? Your heart must be as hardened as your prostate...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And your testicles must have shrunk to match the depth of knowledge in your brain.

I'm not saying the UC are bad people. They're basically religious dilettantes who enjoying doing good, and feeling good about doing good, but don't want any real moral restrictions placed on their lives or any real obligations placed on their behaviour. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with them trying to lecture others on behaviour, though, not to mention trying to get the government to make itself an international laughing stock by going around pleading with coalliton countries to leave Iraq because two of our idiotic, brainless do-gooders got themselves kidnapped.

[Argus]

Phhht. This is the United Church. As I've said before, they're not a real church. They're more of a social club for anxious, hand-wringing liberals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because you approve of their politics. Phht.

A little self critical thought, please!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've tried that. But there's so little about me that can be criticised that it's largely a wasted exercise.

[Argus]

The United Church does a better job than most when it comes living up to the principles which it believes are the core of Christianity. Just because you don't like those principals does not mean they don't have any.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tend to agree. Most Christian denominations seem to suffer from a "forest for the trees" problem. The UC is the closest mainstream Christian church to Jesus' teachings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, the lefties all love them, even though they've no time for Christianity in general. But then, the lefties all prefer to not have anyone's behaviour or morality judged, which makes them perfectly in line with the UC's thinking.

However, that does not make the UC a Christian Church.

And btw, this is only an exercise in logic for me, since I'm basically agnostic and haven't gone to church, except for wedding and funerals, in many years.

[I Miss Trudeau]

But then, the lefties all prefer to not have anyone's behaviour or morality judged, which makes them perfectly in line with the UC's thinking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is precisely what anyone who has read the scriptures and lives by them believes. In fact, I would sumbit that those who believe that they ought to judge the behaviour and morality of others (not to mention those that seek to dictate what others may or may not do) are very much NOT Christian, based on the very scriptures that they claim to support.

However, that does not make the UC a Christian Church.

I don't think that you're very familiar with Christian scripture if this is the conclusion that you're arriving at.

[canuckcat]

Which is precisely what anyone who has read the scriptures and lives by them believes. In fact, I would sumbit that those who believe that they ought to judge the behaviour and morality of others (not to mention those that seek to dictate what others may or may not do) are very much NOT Christian, based on the very scriptures that they claim to support.

Lovely post... thank you for your tolerance...

It's a wonderful thing to read the New Testament... I recommend a modern English translation... I see no reason to be bogged down by older versions... but folks should read them as well... but later... we are so lucky to know Jesus and his ministry...

Christmas is a very old holiday... long before the birth of the Christ... even thousands of years before in Europe...

it's always been a beautiful thing to renew and celebrate our connections between folk and God... the renewal of the day's length from the darkness of winter...

For me it is always a time for connections between family.. Halifax to Moncton to Montreal to Toronto to Calgary to Vancouver to Victoria...

We don't all send parcels to each other... and we don't all telephone each other at this time of the year.... but enough of us do so to hang us all together... not to mention those of us who may be in Australia or Europe... or moving back home from the shame of the United States... it's surprising how widespead a small humble family can become...

I wish you all a nice Christmas and New Year's holiday... and soon boom!... Chinese New Year... fat-choy!!

after this day (this whole week actually)... i feel like a fat something...