The Ehical Use of "Facts"

[Nationalist]

While I was in college, before I dropped out, I took a strange elective called The Morals and Ethics of the English Language. I took it because...well...the name grabbed me and I needed to fill my schedule. It turned out to be my favourite class. We debated and reviewed philosophical papers on things like, The Meaning Of Right and Wrong. A wild exchange between 2 main guys. One concerned with his ideas...the other concerned with the grammar of the other's paper, in order to dispute it. Meh...it was a fun course. ANYWAY...

FACTS...The word and its usage.

"IT'S A FACT THAT blah blah woof woof."

Is it? We hold certain things to be generally accepted "facts". 1 + 1 = 2. The Earth is semi-round. I Google "facts" and Dictionary.com says...:

Quote

fact

[ fakt ]

 

 

See synonyms for: factfacts on Thesaurus.com

---

noun

1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

5. Law.Often facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.: Compare question of fact, question of law.

"Its a fact that Joe Biden is not all there."

"Its a fact that Climate Change is an emergency."

"Its a fact that Donald Trump is a criminal."

"Its a fact that systemic racism against coloured people does exist."

We say things like this all the time. You see similar quotes in pretty much every thread...several times. But are these really "facts"? Or do we tend to embellish and/or abuse the term for emphasis? I don't really know that Joe Biden is an addled old puppet. I suspect it. What I see and hear move me to strongly suspect it. But I don't KNOW it for sure and thus...its not really a "fact"...is it.  Is Climate Change really an emergency? Nobody knows. We see certain things...we have theories...but is it really an emergency? Well...considering the amount of carbon smoke we knowingly allow the Indian and Chinese produce...at an ever-accelerated rate...it doesn't really look like it is. Is Donald Trump really a criminal? No. That's a silly "fact". Does systemic racism even exist? Not now that Affirmative Action was halted. I have never experienced a case where a coloured person was targeted by a system for anything because of his/her skin colour. Ever. No police chief tells his cops to target blacks...or whites...or browns...or orientals. An individual may abuse a power and act in a racist manner...but that's an individual's abuse of the system. Not the other way around. So systemic racism is not really a "fact"...is it.

We abuse the word "fact" every day. Hell there's even a business now for "Fact Checkers". An incredible farce. Maybe we should act more like the intellectuals we think we are...

and stop abusing the word "facts"?

Edited July 13, 2023 by Nationalist

[I am Groot]

It is a demonstrated 'fact' that Donald Trump is a scumbag and Justin Trudeau is a smug, sanctimonious lightweight.

Observable facts. Though some may disagree.

Edited July 13, 2023 by I am Groot

[SNOWFLAKE]

44 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

It is a demonstrated 'fact' that Donald Trump is a scumbag and Justin Trudeau is a smug, sanctimonious lightweight.

Observable facts. Though some may disagree.

[Nationalist]

15 hours ago, I am Groot said:

It is a demonstrated 'fact' that Donald Trump is a scumbag and Justin Trudeau is a smug, sanctimonious lightweight.

Observable facts. Though some may disagree.

Is that an opinion or a real "fact"? Sounds like opinion to me.

15 hours ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Lol...the snowflake squawks. 

[SNOWFLAKE]

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Is that an opinion or a real "fact"? Sounds like opinion to me.

Lol...the snowflake squawks. 

Awwwwwwwww sweetie, still following me around? Hate to burst your bubble, but I am hetero. But thanks anyway for the attention. ?

[Nationalist]

8 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Awwwwwwwww sweetie, still following me around? Hate to burst your bubble, but I am hetero. But thanks anyway for the attention. ?

You replied to my OP pea-brain. Still not grown up yet I see.

[Guest]

It's the very reason so few trust the news.

The news used to be about as much objectivity as possible. It was in their best interest to present you something as accurately as possible for you to make your own judgment. 

The media landscape has dramatically changed.

A newspaper or even magazine, isn't as hot a commodity as it used to be. 

So newspapers rely heavily on your clicks. As a result, you see many sensationalize stories, to garner your attention. 

Evidence is provided, but the narrative now is malleable.

The left tend to side heavy on identity politics. The right often side with conspiracy theories. 

Again, their facts are there. 

But it seems I need to do research, for me to determine accuracy.

Probably why viewership is down. Who can you trust?

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

It's the very reason so few trust the news.

The news used to be about as much objectivity as possible. It was in their best interest to present you something as accurately as possible for you to make your own judgment. 

The media landscape has dramatically changed.

A newspaper or even magazine, isn't as hot a commodity as it used to be. 

So newspapers rely heavily on your clicks. As a result, you see many sensationalize stories, to garner your attention. 

Evidence is provided, but the narrative now is malleable.

The left tend to side heavy on identity politics. The right often side with conspiracy theories. 

Again, their facts are there. 

But it seems I need to do research, for me to determine accuracy.

Probably why viewership is down. Who can you trust?

Good point and the answer appears to be "nobody".

Trust your own senses and instincts. Facts have now become subjective. The word is meaningless these days.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Is that an opinion or a real "fact"? Sounds like opinion to me.

Both of these are facts. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

It's the very reason so few trust the news.

The news used to be about as much objectivity as possible. It was in their best interest to present you something as accurately as possible for you to make your own judgment. 

The media landscape has dramatically changed.

A newspaper or even magazine, isn't as hot a commodity as it used to be. 

So newspapers rely heavily on your clicks. As a result, you see many sensationalize stories, to garner your attention. 

Evidence is provided, but the narrative now is malleable.

The left tend to side heavy on identity politics. The right often side with conspiracy theories. 

Again, their facts are there. 

But it seems I need to do research, for me to determine accuracy.

Probably why viewership is down. Who can you trust?

The Left and the Right both deal in conspiracy theories. It's just that the Left don't acknowledge their conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories. Both deal in selected facts. They will tell you what facts back up the viewpoint they have and they want you to have and downplay or ignore other facts. It's lying by omission. And yet they're presenting facts. 

[Nationalist]

13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Both of these are facts. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

I don't disagree with you completely, but let's face it...your assertion is subjective.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

I don't disagree with you completely, but let's face it...your assertion is subjective.

Almost all assertions are just that until evidence is supplied. I'd actually like to gather the numerous instances in Trump's life, the numerous statements he's made, incontrovertible things he's done, gather them all into a neat list and confront a Trump supporter. Though frankly, I doubt they'd care. I think most Trump supporters know he's a scumbag, but he's always saying nasty things about the 'libtards' so they adore him.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Almost all assertions are just that until evidence is supplied. I'd actually like to gather the numerous instances in Trump's life, the numerous statements he's made, incontrovertible things he's done, gather them all into a neat list and confront a Trump supporter. Though frankly, I doubt they'd care. I think most Trump supporters know he's a scumbag, but he's always saying nasty things about the 'libtards' so they adore him.

I've never heard Trump say "libtards". Would be funny though.

If people can dispute your "fact" reasonably...its just not a "fact"...as far as I'm concerned anyway.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

It's just that the Left don't acknowledge their conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories.

They will present you with links or data that "supports" their stance.

I remember a debate in debate class in high school. 

Legalization of Marijuana.

One of my arguments, were the side effects. All factual. 

However, someone pro Marijuana will obviously promote the drug by providing the benefits.

Somewhere along the middle would be the truth.

This is precisely how gender ideology is presented. 

Along the fringes, you are hardline pro having limitless genders, no longer requiring an actual sex change. You feeling like a woman, is good enough. Anyone questioning this, is bigoted.

The other, full on dismissing transness entirely. Not respecting pronouns even at a basic state of simply wanting to be called sir or ma'am. Questioning this, makes you crazy.

Both support their biases, with data. 

On the left, some of the data is shady at best.

On the right, the same can be said.

However, these are the loudest voices. 

Somewhere where truth used to be, is now almost impossible to find in its pure form. It's been tainted by identity politics.

 

[Nationalist]

18 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

They will present you with links or data that "supports" their stance.

I remember a debate in debate class in high school. 

Legalization of Marijuana.

One of my arguments, were the side effects. All factual. 

However, someone pro Marijuana will obviously promote the drug by providing the benefits.

Somewhere along the middle would be the truth.

This is precisely how gender ideology is presented. 

Along the fringes, you are hardline pro having limitless genders, no longer requiring an actual sex change. You feeling like a woman, is good enough. Anyone questioning this, is bigoted.

The other, full on dismissing transness entirely. Not respecting pronouns even at a basic state of simply wanting to be called sir or ma'am. Questioning this, makes you crazy.

Both support their biases, with data. 

On the left, some of the data is shady at best.

On the right, the same can be said.

However, these are the loudest voices. 

Somewhere where truth used to be, is now almost impossible to find in its pure form. It's been tainted by identity politics.

 

Excellent point. Facts as used by the extremities of society, get amplified. Yet very few wish to explore the issues honestly in search of truth.

By doing so, we drag our society down.

[TreeBeard]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:24 AM, Nationalist said:

"Its a fact that Joe Biden is not all there."

"Its a fact that Climate Change is an emergency."

"Its a fact that Donald Trump is a criminal."

"It’s a fact that systemic racism against coloured people does exist."

Those examples, except the 3rd one, are confusing the facts with opinion.   
 

The 3rd one is demonstrably untrue as he has not been convicted of a crime, although he has had to pay a lot of fines in civil matters relating to his business, and he has a lot of criminals working for him, including his former CFO.  

 

The other 3 are opinions that need to be backed up by facts.