For the Liberals And Paul Martin, I Give Thanks

[scribblet]

With the dawn of a new election campaign coinciding with our preparations for the upcoming holiday season, I think it appropriate to give thanks to those that make me proud to be Canadian.

I am thankful for Prime Minister Paul Martin, who decided against a proposal to put the campaign off to the New Year. If he had not done so, he would not have had the opportunity to remind us that Christmas is the traditional holiday that nears, not some generic pagan winter festival. May he remember this in Decembers to come.

I am thankful for the $2,000,000,000 that has been spent on the gun registry. If this has saved just one life, I am sure it was well worth it. I mean, we could have wasted that kind of cash on a Virginia Class nuclear attack submarine, with enough change left over to buy 40 UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters for our military. Then again, we could have taken 4 million handguns off the streets by simply offering their owners an average of $500 for each weapon.

I am thankful the Liberals have kept the Sea King helicopter in the air, or at least for trying to keep them up there. It is always nice to ride in a classic, though there can be a downside. For example, your 1963 Corvette usually does not plummet thousands of feet when it gives up the ghost, and turns you into one.

I am thankful that Prime Minister Martin’s boys can still run his old Canadian Steamship Lines while waving flags of convenience overhead to avoid all those nasty regulations and taxes they would be faced with if they were registered in Canada. I am hopeful that my PM might eventually let me drive my car with a licence plate of convenience, say Germany’s, so that I may treat every Canadian highway as my own personal autobahn.

I am thankful for the Liberals showing me what true democracy is. Imagine entrusting the unwashed rubes who have yet to make their first million to make the right choice. Thankfully, the millionaires who run things are able to parachute officially unchallenged "star" candidates like new lords of the manor into the constituencies to gladly accept our support, our votes, and our undying fealty. If it was good enough in the 19th century, truly it should be good enough today.

I am thankful for the Liberals for showing Canadians, including our impressionable youth, how business is done in this fine nation of ours. Once one unshackles themselves from the chains of ethical behavior and public trust, it is amazing what one is able to accomplish in the name of national unity or simply to line one’s own pockets. Now, if they would only change the laws so the rest of us don’t end up in the slammer for following their enlightened examples.

.....more at http://telusplanet.net/public/tmgarj/

[tml12]

With the dawn of a new election campaign coinciding with our preparations for the upcoming holiday season, I think it appropriate to give thanks to those that make me proud to be Canadian.

I am thankful for Prime Minister Paul Martin, who decided against a proposal to put the campaign off to the New Year. If he had not done so, he would not have had the opportunity to remind us that Christmas is the traditional holiday that nears, not some generic pagan winter festival. May he remember this in Decembers to come.

I am thankful for the $2,000,000,000 that has been spent on the gun registry. If this has saved just one life, I am sure it was well worth it. I mean, we could have wasted that kind of cash on a Virginia Class nuclear attack submarine, with enough change left over to buy 40 UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters for our military. Then again, we could have taken 4 million handguns off the streets by simply offering their owners an average of $500 for each weapon.

I am thankful the Liberals have kept the Sea King helicopter in the air, or at least for trying to keep them up there. It is always nice to ride in a classic, though there can be a downside. For example, your 1963 Corvette usually does not plummet thousands of feet when it gives up the ghost, and turns you into one.

I am thankful that Prime Minister Martin’s boys can still run his old Canadian Steamship Lines while waving flags of convenience overhead to avoid all those nasty regulations and taxes they would be faced with if they were registered in Canada. I am hopeful that my PM might eventually let me drive my car with a licence plate of convenience, say Germany’s, so that I may treat every Canadian highway as my own personal autobahn.

I am thankful for the Liberals showing me what true democracy is. Imagine entrusting the unwashed rubes who have yet to make their first million to make the right choice. Thankfully, the millionaires who run things are able to parachute officially unchallenged "star" candidates like new lords of the manor into the constituencies to gladly accept our support, our votes, and our undying fealty. If it was good enough in the 19th century, truly it should be good enough today.

I am thankful for the Liberals for showing Canadians, including our impressionable youth, how business is done in this fine nation of ours. Once one unshackles themselves from the chains of ethical behavior and public trust, it is amazing what one is able to accomplish in the name of national unity or simply to line one’s own pockets. Now, if they would only change the laws so the rest of us don’t end up in the slammer for following their enlightened examples.

.....more at  http://telusplanet.net/public/tmgarj/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While certainly filled with anti-Liberal rambling, it is hard not to find much truth in it.

[Montgomery Burns]

Instead of the $2 billion wasted on the gun registry, I would have liked to seen that kind of dough go towards more prisons and law enforcement, instead of targetting law-abiding citizens.

Or better yet, have OUR (taxpayers) $2 billion taken off our taxes.

[hiti]

I am thankful that Prime Minister Martin’s boys can still run his old Canadian Steamship Lines while waving flags of convenience overhead to avoid all those nasty regulations and taxes they would be faced with if they were registered in Canada. I am hopeful that my PM might eventually let me drive my car with a licence plate of convenience, say Germany’s, so that I may treat every Canadian highway as my own personal autobahn.

.....more at  http://telusplanet.net/public/tmgarj/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes! The old CSL misinformation that the Cons keep spreading around, along with other mischievious lies.

Canada Shipping Lines (CSL) owns 16 vessels, 15 of which fly under the Canadian flag, and CSL employs Canadians and pays Canadian taxes. 100% fact. Now CSL Group has 100% ownership of CSL International Inc. CSL International ships internationally (surprise) in areas such as the Caribbean, South America, Australia and Asia. CSL International owns 8 vessels that were acquired internationally that fly under foreign flags. These vessels have always been foreign vessels (before and after CSL Int. bought them). These vessels compete directly with companies based out of the Caribbean and South America. Low Caribbean taxes means that more money can be repatriated to Canada (as opposed to Australian taxes were the company to be based near it's Australian operations).

How is this different than Royal Dutch/Shell, which operates in 140 different countries and has autonomous companies that pay local taxes in each country? How is this different than Scotiabank, which has had branches in the Caribbean since the 1890s that operate under companies like Bank of Nova Scotia Jamaica Limited (and pay Caribbean taxes)? What about car companies like Toyota Canada? According to you Toyota Canada is ripping off Japanese tax payers to benefit Canadians. It only makes sense to pay taxes in the jurisdiction of competition.

[Canuck E Stan]

Put wheels under the plant and they can move it from place to place like CSL.

Why did Martin plug the loop hole for foreign taxes on ships everywhere but where CSL was set up? Entitlement?

[hiti]

Put wheels under the plant and they can move it from place to place like CSL.

Why did Martin plug the loop hole for foreign taxes on ships everywhere but where CSL was set up? Entitlement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So he plugged the taxes on ships in the Caribbean, South America, Australia and Asia?

[Canuck E Stan]

He didn't , but you seem to believe everything you read.

[hiti]

He didn't , but you seem to believe everything you read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it is you who believes everything you read with your remark about "Martin plugging loop hole for foreign taxes on ships everywhere but where CSL was set up" without being able to name the country(s) but instead your reply is a personal attack. That would be because you cannot dispute the facts that the Conservatives have been spreading lies about CSL and you believe it.

[Canuck E Stan]

Martin as finance minister closed access to all tax havens for Canadian tax-dodgers save one: the Barbados. The following year, his own Canada Steamship Lines (CSL) promptly moved their operations to the Barbados: CSL has nine shell companies in the Barbados, all sharing one mailbox. Bypassing Canadian taxes, about 1700 Canadian companies have set up affiliates to take advantage of the Barbados’ 2.5% tax rate. In 2000 alone, these companies, which bring their profits into Canada without paying Canadian tax, imported $1.5 billion dollars into Canada, resulting in a tax revenue loss of $345 million (based on 2003 corporate tax rate of 23%).

[shoop]

I think hiti's silence on this one is deafening...

Martin as finance minister closed access to all tax havens for Canadian tax-dodgers save one: the Barbados. The following year, his own Canada Steamship Lines (CSL) promptly moved their operations to the Barbados: CSL has nine shell companies in the Barbados, all sharing one mailbox. Bypassing Canadian taxes, about 1700 Canadian companies have set up affiliates to take advantage of the Barbados’ 2.5% tax rate. In 2000 alone, these companies, which bring their profits into Canada without paying Canadian tax, imported $1.5 billion dollars into Canada, resulting in a tax revenue loss of $345 million (based on 2003 corporate tax rate of 23%).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[hiti]

Martin as finance minister closed access to all tax havens for Canadian tax-dodgers save one: the Barbados. The following year, his own Canada Steamship Lines (CSL) promptly moved their operations to the Barbados: CSL has nine shell companies in the Barbados, all sharing one mailbox. Bypassing Canadian taxes, about 1700 Canadian companies have set up affiliates to take advantage of the Barbados’ 2.5% tax rate. In 2000 alone, these companies, which bring their profits into Canada without paying Canadian tax, imported $1.5 billion dollars into Canada, resulting in a tax revenue loss of $345 million (based on 2003 corporate tax rate of 23%).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CSL head office is in Montreal, Canada, meaning they pay Canadians taxes.

http://www.thecslgroup.ca/menu_eng.html

Where is the link to your Barbados inference?

[Canuck E Stan]

CBC

Of course CBC wouldn't be a credible source would it? The CSL site would be far better.

[shoop]

Let me get this right, you post information about how a certain number (15) CSL ships are registered ships fly the Canadian flag, your support is a link to their Canadian head office? And for that you demand support to disprove the great fountain of information you have supplied?

CSL head office is in Montreal, Canada, meaning they pay Canadians taxes.

http://www.thecslgroup.ca/menu_eng.html

Where is the link to your Barbados inference?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[hiti]

CBC

Of course CBC wouldn't be a credible source would it? The CSL site would be far better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the link and I quote from your link:

Today, Paul Martin’s family business has expanded into a global empire. In Canada, CSL owns eighteen ships which fly our flag. It employs 500 Canadians, and pays Canadian taxes.

CSL also owns, in whole or in part, eighteen foreign flagged ships, sailing around the world, from Montreal to Melbourne.

[Canuck E Stan]

Again you read only what you want,read I know it may be difficult ..but try.

From the same article.

Canada Steamship Lines now has nine shell companies in Barbados, eight of them at a lawyer’s office near Bridgetown. They share the same mailbox and the same tax rate: about 2.5 percent.

CSL is not alone. Canadian companies have set up about 1,700 affiliates in Barbados to take advantage of this loophole, most of them in the financial sector.

And just like Liberia, the companies can bring their profits back into Canada without paying Canadian tax. In the year 2000, the companies brought $1.5 billion dollars back into our country.

Robert Brown is the former CEO of Price Waterhouse. He was part of a committee of tax experts set up by Martin himself. In 1997, the committee urged Martin to close loopholes like those in Barbados.

[hiti]

My yes, CSL pays taxes all over the world, just like Scotiabank pays Caribbean taxes and CSL also pays Canadian taxes, just like Toyota Canada.

What is this world coming to when a Canadians company goes global and pays taxes to other countries.

Unbelievable.

[Canuck E Stan]

From the same article

Paul Martin refused all of our phone and fax requests to sit down for an interview with Disclosure to discuss taxes and CSL. We wanted to ask him how he reconciles his use of tax havens and shell companies outside Canada with his desire to lead the country.

Martin refused our requests, so we asked professor Elizabeth DeSombre instead. She studies the effect of flags of convenience at Wellesley College near Boston:

    DeSOMBRE: Canada has chosen to tax its industries, to tax its workers, to have a system of environmental safety and labour standards, to have a wage rate. And by essentially flagging ... ships somewhere else, you’re opting out of that system that Canada chose to have.

    DISCLOSURE: And how does that strike you?

    DeSOMBRE: [it’s] an odd thing for a politician to do. Not at all a surprising thing for a businessperson to do, but an odd thing for a politician to do.

Too bad you can't distingush between a businessperson and a politician.

[normanchateau]

Ah yes! The old CSL misinformation that the Cons keep spreading around, along with other mischievious lies.

And why wouldn't they? It's a far easier task than defending Harper.

[Canuck E Stan]

Another Liberal supporter who doesn't read.

[normanchateau]

Another Liberal supporter who doesn't read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've read all I need to know about Harper and his "ideas".

[Canuck E Stan]

I wish I could say the same for reading about Martin, but all I can find is articles about corruption,thief,misappropriation,scandals,promises never kept,more promises (same as the old promises),lies,......but no ideas.

[dugger]

Jolly Roger better flag for Canada Steamship Lines

by Judi McLeod, Canadafreepress.com

January 5, 2005

On land, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin has proven himself to be an artful dodger whenever the $100 million in government kickbacks to Liberal-friendly communication agencies is on the discussion table.

** remaining post removed due to copyright infringment**

Edited December 12, 2005 by Greg

[Guest eureka]

When Martin "closed tax loopholes," he closed them for countries with which Canada did not have tax treaties. That left open Barbados and a few others. Liberia was one with which Canada does not have a tax treaty and CSL, and others, reflagged in Baebados.

There are thousands of corporations from every Western country with head offices of one sort or another in these shelters. Martin had pressed for international cooperation in closing down tax shelters but that did not happen. There was no other choice for CSL and for many other of the legitimate users of these tax "havens," which, incidentally, do not free corporations of tax in their home countries. They avoid certain taxes but it is much more complicated than mere tax avoidance.

So why don't you all shove the smut and choke on it. I would also appreciate not being put in the position of defending Martin. I will not stand by, though, for the character assassination that poses as political criticism by the ignorant and the partisan columnists.

[shoop]

Are you ok?

I don't really know how you define 'smut', but I don't really think it applies to anything in this thread. Doesn't it have more of a sexual connotation?

If you don't want to defend Paul Martin, just don't.

Canadafreepress.com is an embarassment. Truly only the real right wing hacks read it regularly. Believe it or not, that does not consitute the *majority* of CPC supporters.

So why don't you all shove the smut and choke on it. I would also appreciate not being put in the position of defending Martin. I will not stand by, though, for the character assassination that poses as political criticism by the ignorant and the partisan columnists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lovecanada]

Most recently, CSL has come after fire after the Bloc Quebecois revealed that it had replaced Canadians with a 22-member crew of Ukrainian sailors. The Ukrainians will each earn about US $1,000 a month to work on the Birchglen, significantly less than the US$5,000 a month the Canadians earned.

Perhaps CSL should hoist the Jolly Roger.

Canada Free Press founding editor Judi McLeod is an award-winning journalist with 30 years experience in the media. A former Toronto Sun and Kingston Whig Standard columnist, she has also appeared on Newsmax.com, the Drudge Report, Foxnews.com, and World Net Daily. Judi can be reached at: [email protected].

Well it looks to me like there is all sorts of support from respectful media that Martin is cheating and that retractors here have no real ground to stand on except their seeming hated of Conservatives.

So why don't you all shove the smut and choke on it. I would also appreciate not being put in the position of defending Martin. I will not stand by, though, for the character assassination that poses as political criticism by the ignorant and the partisan columnists