Finally Some Sense on Health Care

[sharkman]

I'm not a socialist and CPC supporters are mistaken if they think that every Harper opponent is a socialist.  What I oppose is social conservatism, not fiscal conservatism.  I'd have no problem voting for a Progressive Conservative or any other party that was not full of social conservatives.

Besides, for all his faults, I'd never accuse Harper of trying to give people what they want. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's kind of hard to believe that you ONLY oppose social conservatism in the CPC since your earlier posts(and lo, they are legion!) opine on just about every issue the CPC is promising, including the GST and Health care, and you oppose it all.

By the way, don't you feel you've done a lot of posting today Norman? I know it's Saturday, but don't you have any outside interests or responsibilities? Your stats say you're averaging 30 posts a day. That's a little over the top. Maybe the bartender should cut you off!

[southerncomfort]

I'm not a socialist and CPC supporters are mistaken if they think that every Harper opponent is a socialist.  What I oppose is social conservatism, not fiscal conservatism.  I'd have no problem voting for a Progressive Conservative or any other party that was not full of social conservatives.

Besides, for all his faults, I'd never accuse Harper of trying to give people what they want. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's kind of hard to believe that you ONLY oppose social conservatism in the CPC since your earlier posts(and lo, they are legion!) opine on just about every issue the CPC is promising, including the GST and Health care, and you oppose it all.

By the way, don't you feel you've done a lot of posting today Norman? I know it's Saturday, but don't you have any outside interests or responsibilities? Your stats say you're averaging 30 posts a day. That's a little over the top. Maybe the bartender should cut you off!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy I'll say, that boy doesn't have a life LOL maybe he needs a 12 step program or something.

Psssst...should we tell stormin Noman that Harper and the CPC isn't about social conservatism these days, you know, get with the 21st century and all that, and its not a hell of a lot different than the liberals (minus the corruption and sleaze).

Methinks that boy doth protest too much - maybe his fingers are glued to the keyboard or something. Think he'll leave it to eat his milk and cookies on Christmas Eve.

[sharkman]

This just in: Harper said yesterday that if a family member had a medical emergency and our wait list health care system couldn't help immediately, he would have to consider private health care to look after his family. Today the Liberals responded with criticism for that comment on using private health care.

Funny thing is, Martin's personal physican is in a private clinic and they don't seem to mind about that. Of course the media report I heard this on made no mention of this, the Liberals get a free ride.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear sharkman.

Funny thing is, Martin's personal physican is in a private clinic and they don't seem to mind about that. Of course the media report I heard this on made no mention of this, the Liberals get a free ride.

The fact is, Canada has somewhat of a two-tier system already. The political elite, pro athletes, etc have their own teams of doctors, and anyone who can afford it can go anywhere in the world for most every kind of treatment one so chooses.

It seems Harper, (and everyone else) has been busy scooping up all the leftover 'pro or con' positions on whatever policy matters get dredged up (not that healthcare is a minor matter).

[sharkman]

And the Liberals 'scoop up' the hypocrisy positions I guess.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear sharkman,

And the Liberals 'scoop up' the hypocrisy positions I guess.

Sometimes. It doesn't matter a whole lot, though, for how many election promises actually get kept by anyone anyway?

[lovecanada]

Well last time I checked my pay stub, I pay for Alberta Blue Cross, isn't that insurance? Don't I get things like private/semi-private hospital room if I have it? Does everyone have it? NO, so, is that not some form of two-tier?

[Guest eureka]

There is not a country in the world that does not have some public/private mix. Canada as much as most.

That, however, is not two tier healthcare. Two tier means one lvel of care and access for the wealthy and another for the poor.

It might be useful to learn the distinctions before touting one or the other.

[lovecanada]

There is not a country in the world that does not have some public/private mix. Canada as much as most.

That, however, is not two tier healthcare. Two tier means one lvel of care and access for the wealthy and another for the poor.

It might be useful to learn the distinctions before touting one or the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And do you think that the average Canadian understands that distinction? All I care about is, if I need care, that it's available to me in some form, any form as quickly as possible!

I could not imagine being diagnosed with cancer and having to wait for treatment. But, thousands of Canadians are facing just that everyday. So, anything that can stop that kind of suffering has to be considered.

[Canuck E Stan]

Quebecers understand that,

Harper understands that,

Layton just got it today,

Martin has had it for years.

That only leaves Eureka, and some thick as a brick Liberals to get it.

Healthcare will be a non- issue by voting day.

[Guest eureka]

If thousands of Canadians are "facing it every day," then why would we favour letting those with the most money getting faster treatment and thus taking resources from the public system?

Why not concentrate on making the wait shorter for all instead of lengthening it for most to the benefit of the few?

[Biblio Bibuli]

Quebecers understand that,

Harper understands that,

Layton just got it today,

Martin has had it for years.

That only leaves Eureka, and some thick as a brick Liberals to get it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Compared to those "thick as a brick Liberals" I'll take Eureka.

At least she reads. She buys & reads "hunderds of books" (her own words) every year.

Want me to tell you where she buys them?

I would tell you, but the 5 measily "LOL" emoticons that we are allowed with every post is hardly enough for an appropriate reply, so I won't.

Ask him.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

Why not concentrate on making the wait shorter for all

This is what Harper proposes, but I don't know that it can be done. A 'blended system' would theoretically make shorter waiting times for both 'tiers'.

[Argus]

If thousands of Canadians are "facing it every day," then why would we favour letting those with the most money getting faster treatment and thus taking resources from the public system?

You think they aren't now? You think the Paul Martins and Belinda Stronachs of this country are waiting ten hours in line at an ER to get treated for injuries? Or their familes? Or their friends? Or their friends families? Jean Chretien went to a clinic in the US to get treated. Allan Rock, when he was health minister, was bumped to the front of the line for treatment. Rich people don't wait. And nothing you do or say or want can make them wait. They have bigger cars, better houses, nicer food, warmer clothes, and yes, better health care.

Why not concentrate on making the wait shorter for all instead of lengthening it for most to the benefit of the few?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The system needs changes. Right now there's a straitjacket around it which prevents any real, systemic changes. We ned to get rid of that straitjacket and allow new money into the system. Allow small fees for extra services. Allow private money to create more resources and divert people from the public system so everyone else will be treated faster.

[Canuck E Stan]

Why not concentrate on making the wait shorter for all instead of lengthening it for most to the benefit of the few?

Good Question,better ask Martin that one.

He cut healthcare funds in the 90's and now his answer is to throw more cash at the long lines waiting.

Where is his plan for reducing the lines.

For that matter what is your solution?

The Liberal Plan,the Martin solution,same as always,here's some cash, you deal with it.

This isn't about "show me the money" .

This is about "If your not part of the solution,you're part of the problem"

[Argus]

There is not a country in the world that does not have some public/private mix. Canada as much as most.

That, however, is not two tier healthcare. Two tier means one lvel of care and access for the wealthy and another for the poor.

It might be useful to learn the distinctions before touting one or the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what would you call the German system?

[Biblio Bibuli]

The system needs changes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what would be a better start than to allow doctors the freedom to explain & reveal to their patients the difference between what Medicare covers, as compared to what is the best way to go, in diagnosing & curing whatever it is that ails them.

At the present time even the private clinics in Canada (in BC at least), in order to be allowed to exist, I suppose, won't tell you that.

Shame on them all!

[Guest eureka]

So some are getting preferentil treatment now. Argus. That is a good reason to enshrine the dysfunction, is it?

What is your answer? We all know that healthcare has been mishandled for a long time now - by both parties. and the answer seems to be; so wha!. Let's allow others who can afford it to join the exclusive club.

Sorry, but that is not my preference. There are answers and they havebeen provided by no less than three Commissions. Putting some of the recommendations of those into practise might help.

Whi knows, brain transplants for the New Conservatives might be covered.

What would I call Germany? Nothing at all in this context.

[Canuck E Stan]

Whi knows, brain transplants for the New Conservatives might be covered.

Like wise, maybe the Liberals could get the ass holes plugged and their wallets operated on..

[Biblio Bibuli]

The system needs changes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what would be a better start than to allow doctors the freedom to explain & reveal to their patients the difference between what Medicare covers, as compared to what is the best way to go, in diagnosing & curing whatever it is that ails them.

At the present time even the private clinics in Canada (in BC at least), in order to be allowed to exist, I suppose, won't tell you that.

Shame on them all!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTTT!

[sharkman]

So some are getting preferentil treatment now. Argus. That is a good reason to enshrine the dysfunction, is it?

What is your answer? We all know that healthcare has been mishandled for a long time now - by both parties. and the answer seems to be; so wha!. Let's allow others who can afford it to join the exclusive club.

Sorry, but that is not my preference. There are answers and they havebeen provided by no less than three Commissions. Putting some of the recommendations of those into practise might help.

Whi knows, brain transplants for the New Conservatives might be covered.

What would I call Germany? Nothing at all in this context.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how 'both' parties have mishandled healthcare, the CPC is a new animal but if you consider it Tory, then under Mulroney it was doing much better than Martin who cut transfer payments to the provinces and started the whole mess.

[tml12]

So some are getting preferentil treatment now. Argus. That is a good reason to enshrine the dysfunction, is it?

What is your answer? We all know that healthcare has been mishandled for a long time now - by both parties. and the answer seems to be; so wha!. Let's allow others who can afford it to join the exclusive club.

Sorry, but that is not my preference. There are answers and they havebeen provided by no less than three Commissions. Putting some of the recommendations of those into practise might help.

Whi knows, brain transplants for the New Conservatives might be covered.

What would I call Germany? Nothing at all in this context.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how 'both' parties have mishandled healthcare, the CPC is a new animal but if you consider it Tory, then under Mulroney it was doing much better than Martin who cut transfer payments to the provinces and started the whole mess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ironically this is true.

It is all about the 95 budget cuts...pick up any Canadian politics book.

The "great saviours of Medicare"???

[Guest eureka]

Perhaps you could stretch your memory a little further to the draconiam cuts to transfers by the Mulroney government.

[tml12]

Perhaps you could stretch your memory a little further to the draconiam cuts to transfers by the Mulroney government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't doubt he started it...

But certainly the "saviours" didn't fix it...

[err]

I could not imagine being diagnosed with cancer and having to wait for treatment. But, thousands of Canadians are facing just that everyday. So, anything that can stop that kind of suffering has to be considered.

How about investing in our PUBLIC health care system.

Paul Martin has cut billions upon billions in funding for health care to finance his deficit reduction and Corp Canada's tax breaks as finance minister. How about putting some of the surplus back into the PUBLIC health care system...

Last election, when Martin was patting himself on the back for his "cost-cutting", Harper said he didn't cut enough.

Martin would not agree to Layton's demand that new health-care spending go to PUBLIC health care. He had about 1/3 of the $41 Billion announced earlier this year earmarked for private institutions.

I think that realistically, only the NDP is really serious about making our PUBLIC health-care system one that will work for all Canadians....