Martin says "NO" To Jocko's request

[Leafless]

Looks like Jack Layton's 'plan of action' to topple the Liberals is nothing more than hot air as Paul Martin responded with an "absolute NO to just stop governing."

Stephen Harper will meet with Layton to discuss implications of the NDP plan and says he wants to ensure any vote against the government is successful.

Conservatives also threatened to block Goodale's fiscal update discounting it as nothing more than electioneering.

Why is Jack so nimble concerning a confidence vote?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/11...pf-1301121.html

[Shakeyhands]

An election would be the worst thing to ever happen to Mr Layton... or is it? Most likely outcome is another minority Liberal government for him to get his ideas passed into reality...

Only loser here is us, having to pay for another election.... oh and Harper too.

[shoop]

If all three opposition parties band together there will be an election about the time Layton proposes.

An election would be the worst thing to ever happen to Mr Layton... or is it?  Most likely outcome is another minority Liberal government for him to get his ideas passed into reality...

Only loser here is us, having to pay for another election.... oh and Harper too.

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[Leafless]

Shakeyhands

You wrote- " Only loser here is us, having to pay for another election....oh and Harper to."

You almost make it sound like the Conservatives have no buisness in federal politics.

Let's get things into perpective here as we are talking about the elimination of a corrupt Liberal Party who doesen't have the moral authority to govern the country and the NDP a Party to yellow to do the right thing, to get on board with the other Parties or possibly face being obliterated in the next federal election.

[shoop]

The only loser here is the miniscule percentage of the population who won't be able to feed at the trough WHEN the Liberals get crushed next election.

Only loser here is us, having to pay for another election.... oh and Harper too.

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[Shakeyhands]

geeez.. you guys can almost taste it eh.. No way will Harper win, no way. Best case scenario for the CPC is a Liberal Minority. Dollar to a doughnut is Harper is gone after he loses this one. Sorry.

[Riverwind]

geeez.. you guys can almost taste it eh..  No way will Harper win, no way.  Best case scenario for the CPC is a Liberal Minority.  Dollar to a doughnut is Harper is gone after he loses this one.  Sorry.

The Liberals on on a knife edge. I believe there are a lot of long time Liberal supporters who have come to the conclusion that the Liberals need some time on the opposition benches. It will come down to the compaign: if Harper keeps his nose clean (i.e. no Martin supports child porn nonsense) and does not give voters reasons to vote against him he could find he has a majority.

[shoop]

The best case scenario for the CPC is the same situation? Come on. Right now it is 50/50 liberal minority or conservative minority. I would definitely bet a conservative majority is more likely than a liberal majority. The Libs can't win a majority without Quebec. They ain't getting quebec this time around...

geeez.. you guys can almost taste it eh..  No way will Harper win, no way.  Best case scenario for the CPC is a Liberal Minority.  Dollar to a doughnut is Harper is gone after he loses this one.  Sorry.

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[Yodeler]

if Harper keeps his nose clean (i.e. no Martin supports child porn nonsense) and does not give voters reasons to vote against him he could find he has a majority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harper's an honest sort and doesn't try to hide his feelings.

Just like Mike Tyson wouldn't bite his opponents ears off when he's leading, neither will he.

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds" competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

[tml12]

The best case scenario for the CPC is the same situation? Come on. Right now it is 50/50 liberal minority or conservative minority. I would definitely bet a conservative majority is more likely than a liberal majority. The Libs can't win a majority without Quebec. They ain't getting quebec this time around... 

geeez.. you guys can almost taste it eh..  No way will Harper win, no way.  Best case scenario for the CPC is a Liberal Minority.  Dollar to a doughnut is Harper is gone after he loses this one.  Sorry.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, but the Conservatives may not be getting as much B.C. as they got last time, I also don't think they have a shot anywhere in Quebec and I believe they will struggle in Atlantic Canada and Ontario.

Let's face it, with Martin and Harper we are looking at minority governments for the long haul.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Leafless,

Looks like Jack Layton's 'plan of action' to topple the Liberals is nothing more than hot air as Paul Martin responded with an "absolute NO to just stop governing."

No 'hot air' about it. As I understand it, if a vote of 'non-confidence' is taken, there are only two courses of action that Martin can take.

Typically, when parliament votes No Confidence, or where it fails to vote confidence, a government must either

resign, or

seek a parliamentary dissolution and request a General Election.

from... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_of_no_confidence

So, Martin's time is limited. Unless, of course, Layton reneges, which would be shooting himself and his party in the foot in the worst way.

[err]

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds"  competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

Do you think he can beat Don Cherry ???

[tml12]

Dear Leafless,

Looks like Jack Layton's 'plan of action' to topple the Liberals is nothing more than hot air as Paul Martin responded with an "absolute NO to just stop governing."

No 'hot air' about it. As I understand it, if a vote of 'non-confidence' is taken, there are only two courses of action that Martin can take.

Typically, when parliament votes No Confidence, or where it fails to vote confidence, a government must either

resign, or

seek a parliamentary dissolution and request a General Election.

from... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_of_no_confidence

So, Martin's time is limited. Unless, of course, Layton reneges, which would be shooting himself and his party in the foot in the worst way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fleabag,

That's the whole point...it is NOT a vote of no confidence...it's just a regular vote...and the Liberals can just say screw it if they want...

[Riverwind]

That's the whole point...it is NOT a vote of no confidence...it's just a regular vote...and the Liberals can just say screw it if they want...

Then the opposition passes a motion to ajourn parliment until Jan 3 and schedules a confidence vote for that date. The opposition can and will get what they want if they co-operate.

[tml12]

That's the whole point...it is NOT a vote of no confidence...it's just a regular vote...and the Liberals can just say screw it if they want...

Then the opposition passes a motion to ajourn parliment until Jan 3 and schedules a confidence vote for that date. The opposition can and will get what they want if they co-operate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK but you really see the NDP cooperating with Conservative demands to bring down the Liberal minority government???

[August1991]

That's the whole point...it is NOT a vote of no confidence...it's just a regular vote...and the Liberals can just say screw it if they want...

Then the opposition passes a motion to ajourn parliment until Jan 3 and schedules a confidence vote for that date. The opposition can and will get what they want if they co-operate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is one of the scenarios that will be considered when the three opposition leaders meet this Sunday. A non-confidence motion during the first week of January would lead to an election date on Mon 13 Feb.

Clark's government fell on 13 Dec 1979 but the election was held on 18 Feb 1980, over nine weeks later or about two weeks longer than the 47 days required at the time. This extension was accorded because of the Xmas holiday season. A similare scenario is also possible now.

To find out what will happen, I think we'll have to wait until Duceppe, Harper and Layton meet. I think Martin's reaction so far to this opposition putsch has been very bad. I suspect he is being badly advised. Trudeau would have called these guys the "unholy troika" or some such and then stared them down. Martin is being Mr. Flusters.

In fact, there is something very reassuring in this meeting. Harper, Layton and Duceppe in their own ways represent honestly something genuine in all of Canada.

----

A majority government is unlikely to impossible. I would wager a minority Liberal government with more NDP and BQ seats but fewer Liberals and about the same CPC. I don't think either Harper or Martin will resign afterwards.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear tml12,

Fleabag,

That's the whole point...it is NOT a vote of no confidence...it's just a regular vote...and the Liberals can just say screw it if they want...

Any vote tabled, but not passed, is seen as a 'non-confidence vote'.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear August1991,

In fact, there is something very reassuring in this meeting. Harper, Layton and Duceppe in their own ways represent honestly something genuine in all of Canada.

I took a quiz about 'which party leader I naturally support', and, being 'liberal minded', it came up #1 as Martin. (Ha!) A close #2 was Duceppe, and Harper was last.

A majority government is unlikely to impossible. I would wager a minority Liberal government with more NDP and BQ seats but fewer Liberals and about the same CPC.

Why doesn't the BQ run in a few other provinces and go for the majority?

[shoop]

Interesting analysis, don't know if I agree with much of it.

How could Trudeau have 'stared them down'? They want an election sooner than Martin does.

Your analysis of the next election is lacking. I cannot see the NDs picking up seats without the Conservatives doing so. They are looking like they will win a few seats in Toronto, and possibly split the 905. Solid throughout most of the west.

IF it is a Liberal minority, both Martin and Harper resign for sure before the next election following that. Depends what you mean by not resign afterwards. (i.e. immediately afterwards?)

To find out what will happen, I think we'll have to wait until Duceppe, Harper and Layton meet.  I think Martin's reaction so far to this opposition putsch has been very bad.  I suspect he is being badly advised.  Trudeau would have called these guys the "unholy troika" or some such and then stared them down.  Martin is being Mr. Flusters.

----

A majority government is unlikely to impossible.  I would wager a minority Liberal government with more NDP and BQ seats but fewer Liberals and about the same CPC.  I don't think either Harper or Martin will resign afterwards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Yodeler]

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds"  competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

Do you think he can beat Don Cherry ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Racing Form that I've just purchased has Charles Krauthammer and Irshad Manji at even money, Mark Steyn third at 3 to 1 odds, and Preston Manning next at odds of 4 to 1.

Your Don Cherry is in the 20th spot at 192 to 1, and Theloniusfleabag's Margaret Atwood is, as I figured, dead last. She's 199 to 1.

Looking at my today's National Post they've got them in precisely the same order, minus the odds. They don't want it to look too much like a horse race, I figure.

Good luck!

[Yodeler]

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds"  competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

Do you think he can beat Don Cherry ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Racing Form that I've just purchased has Charles Krauthammer and Irshad Manji at even money, Mark Steyn third at 3 to 1 odds, and Preston Manning next at odds of 4 to 1.

Your Don Cherry is in the 20th spot at 192 to 1, and Theloniusfleabag's Margaret Atwood is, as I figured, dead last. She's 199 to 1.

Looking at my today's National Post they've got them in precisely the same order, minus the odds. They don't want it to look too much like a horse race, I figure.

Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And just to show you that when I said "Good luck!" I meant it, let me point out what post Preston Manning drew.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...tuals/vote.html

Yup, post number one. With the speed that that man brought out the Reform party I KNOW he'll be hard to catch. That's who I'm going to bet!

So again .... GOOD LUCK !

[err]

Your analysis of the next election is lacking. I cannot see the NDs picking up seats without the Conservatives doing so. They are looking like they will win a few seats in Toronto, and possibly split the 905. Solid throughout most of the west.

It would appear that perhaps it is your over-optimism that is responsible for not accepting what August has written. It would appear that the NDP are, as I had predicted, the ones that will gain in this election.

NDP's gain the newest headache for Martin

You may also wish to check out this link to help curb the inflation in your optimism:

Still feeling jilted after right-wing marriage

[Yodeler]

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds"  competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

Do you think he can beat Don Cherry ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Racing Form that I've just purchased has Charles Krauthammer and Irshad Manji at even money, Mark Steyn third at 3 to 1 odds, and Preston Manning next at odds of 4 to 1.

Your Don Cherry is in the 20th spot at 192 to 1, and Theloniusfleabag's Margaret Atwood is, as I figured, dead last. She's 199 to 1.

Looking at my today's National Post they've got them in precisely the same order, minus the odds. They don't want it to look too much like a horse race, I figure.

Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And just to show you that when I said "Good luck!" I meant it, let me point out what post Preston Manning drew.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...tuals/vote.html

Yup, post number one. With the speed that that man brought out the Reform party I KNOW he'll be hard to catch. That's who I'm going to bet!

So again .... GOOD LUCK !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And in case you're wondering how it could be that two 'beautiful minds' were profiled on Nov. 11 ... they were not. Preston was profiled the day before.

My guess as to how this happened is that whoever is responsible made this mistake on purpose, probably because they worry that some people may remember you more and thus vote for you more if you were profiled on Remembrance Day.

Guess who THEY'LL be voting for?

Good luck!

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...uals/index.html

"Candidate profiles

» Naomi Klein, profiled by cartoonist Gary Clement, Nov. 11

» Preston Manning, profiled by Lorne Gunter, Nov. 11"

[shoop]

Hmmm, the difference err is reading what you see in the papers at face value and providing your own analysis. The two or three points the CPC has gained in the GTA and the 905 belt, as stated in the link you provided, would be enough to push them over the top.

A Thomas Walkom piece fronting for the Liberals? Wow, you are right. I am definitely changing my mind now.

So a couple of red Tories don't feel comfortable in the new CPC. Big surprise. If you want me to "curb the inflation in my optimism" you will have to provide a little better than that. btw, where do you come up with such unique phrases in English?

It would appear that perhaps it is your over-optimism that is responsible for not accepting what August has written.  It would appear that the NDP are, as I had predicted, the ones that will gain in this election. 

NDP's gain the newest headache for Martin

You may also wish to check out this link to help curb the inflation in your optimism:

Still feeling jilted after right-wing marriage

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Yodeler]

And, as long as Preston Manning doesn't win the National Post's "Beautiful Minds"  competition, Harper will lead.

GO PRESTO GO !!!

Do you think he can beat Don Cherry ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Racing Form that I've just purchased has Charles Krauthammer and Irshad Manji at even money, Mark Steyn third at 3 to 1 odds, and Preston Manning next at odds of 4 to 1.

Your Don Cherry is in the 20th spot at 192 to 1, and Theloniusfleabag's Margaret Atwood is, as I figured, dead last. She's 199 to 1.

Looking at my today's National Post they've got them in precisely the same order, minus the odds. They don't want it to look too much like a horse race, I figure.

Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And just to show you that when I said "Good luck!" I meant it, let me point out what post Preston Manning drew.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...tuals/vote.html

Yup, post number one. With the speed that that man brought out the Reform party I KNOW he'll be hard to catch. That's who I'm going to bet!

So again .... GOOD LUCK !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And in case you're wondering how it could be that two 'beautiful minds' were profiled on Nov. 11 ... they were not. Preston was profiled the day before.

My guess as to how this happened is that whoever is responsible made this mistake on purpose, probably because they worry that some people may remember you more and thus vote for you more if you were profiled on Remembrance Day.

Guess who THEY'LL be voting for?

Good luck!

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...uals/index.html

"Candidate profiles

» Naomi Klein, profiled by cartoonist Gary Clement, Nov. 11

» Preston Manning, profiled by Lorne Gunter, Nov. 11"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And who is responsible for Naomi Klein getting only six mocking cartoon frames and not a peep in her profile?

Guess who her profilist, Gary Clement, is voting for?

Good luck!