Grit Support Back Up

[tml12]

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...ounsel_20051107

When was the Gomery Report released again?

[I Miss Trudeau]

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...ounsel_20051107

When was the Gomery Report released again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A predictable consequence of Canadians hearing Harper say "When I'm PM..."

[shoop]

Do you guys want to discuss something or is this just a Liberal love-in thread?

[I Miss Trudeau]

Do you guys want to discuss something or is this just a Liberal love-in thread?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By all means, say something worthy of discussion. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[shoop]

By all means, say something worthy of discussion. I'm not holding my breath, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, how about providing some support for this one.

A predictable consequence of Canadians hearing Harper say "When I'm PM..."

ps, shove the insults while you are at it pal.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Ok, how about providing some support for this one.

A predictable consequence of Canadians hearing Harper say "When I'm PM..."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look at the poll history. Every time Harper creepes up to a substantial level of support, its followed shortly thereafter by a large drop in support. Combined with Harper saying "When I'm Pm..." (what... 6 times in a single speech?), you have a recipe for Conservative disaster.

ps. I know where I'd like to shove those "insults," bud.

[Riverwind]

Look at the poll history. Every time Harper creepes up to a substantial level of support, its followed shortly thereafter by a large drop in support.

This poll confirms my suspicion that the outcome of the election will be determined by a group of swing Liberal-NDP which represent about 5-10% of the electorate. This group of people would prefer to vote NDP but dislike the Conservatives so intensely that they will vote Liberal if it looks like the Conservatives might win power - that is why you see the polls swinging around. I don't think it has anything to do with what Harper says or does since the voters in question already hate Harper.

Similarily, any poll that says the Liberals are heading into majority terroritory will be followed by poll where Liberal support drops suddenly as these NDP swing voters switch back to the the NDP now that they believe it is safe to do so.

This behavoir leads me to believe that the next parliment will look exactly like this one.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Similarily, any poll that says the Liberals are heading into majority terroritory will be followed by poll where Liberal support drops suddenly as these NDP swing voters switch back to the the NDP now that they believe it is safe to do so.

This behavoir leads me to believe that the next parliment will look exactly like this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I generally agree. Though in the last election, these swing voters handed over seats to Conservatives by jumping ship from an NDP candidate that likely would have won, resulting in large vote splitting. That sort of thing has the potential to cause major problems if the number of swing voters gets much larger.

[shoop]

Look at the poll history. Every time Harper creepes up to a substantial level of support, its followed shortly thereafter by a large drop in support. Combined with Harper saying "When I'm Pm..." (what... 6 times in a single speech?), you have a recipe for Conservative disaster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which speech? Or is it more Liberal arrogance one should simply know what you are talking about? Or is it you have nothing to say beside hurling insults?

I think Jim Travers had it right in the Star today. The Conservatives are sitting where the Liberals were in May/June of 1993. The electorate was sick of the government in power but didn't really trust them.

ps. I know where I'd like to shove those "insults," bud.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty tough for an internet message board pal. I'm guessing you are like your idol Trudeau, all talk no balls.

[apollo19]

Look at the poll history. Every time Harper creepes up to a substantial level of support, its followed shortly thereafter by a large drop in support. Combined with Harper saying "When I'm Pm..." (what... 6 times in a single speech?), you have a recipe for Conservative disaster.

Actually, what it shows is that the electorate is becoming more fluid. Everytime the votes swing back to the Liberals, more of these people, who are centre-right supporters, consider the Conservatives a possibility. I would throw all bets off on polls until the election is officially underway and official policies comeout. I have a feeling that within the by the end of the campaign, there could be some large surprises coming out of it. What we know is that the CPC has around 25% of a solid base, and the NDP has around 15%. We don't know what the Liberals base is because they are always shifting so much , so we could all be very surprised with the next election.

[shoop]

Actually, what it shows is that the electorate is becoming more fluid. Everytime the votes swing back to the Liberals, more of these people, who are centre-right supporters, consider the Conservatives a possibility. I would throw all bets off on polls until the election is officially underway and official policies comeout. I have a feeling that within the by the end of the campaign, there could be some large surprises coming out of it. What we know is that the CPC has around 25% of a solid base, and the NDP has around 15%. We don't know what the Liberals base is because they are always shifting so much , so we could all be very surprised with the next election.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Liberals got 28% of the popular vote in the pounding they received in 1984. Which is exactly where they were on November 4th. Couple that with the corresponding split between the Liberals and Conservatives in Ontario and the Maritimes and it means big problems for Paul Martin.

The big question is - What are the Liberals going to do now? They could keep crying scary, scary, scary or they could prevent a real vision for cleaning up govern and a solid policy agenda for the future.

It is your guess, but I know what strategy my money is on ...

[crazymf]

I can tell you this for sure.

Anybody east of Sudbury doesn't matter to the federal election and we may as well not even discuss it.

IMT, we are in the same boat in this regard.

[Canuck E Stan]

Are the Liberals going to pay their $1 million+ bill that they stole from the taxpayers BEFORE the election or are they going to use the stolen taxpayer money again for their election campaign as they have in the past three elections? I would like the bill to be paid now.

[shoop]

Sadly, the same goes for everybody west of Kenora.

I can tell you this for sure.

Anybody east of Sudbury doesn't matter to the federal election and we may as well not even discuss it.

IMT, we are in the same boat in this regard.

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[err]

Are the Liberals going to pay their $1 million+  bill that they stole from  the taxpayers BEFORE the election or are they going to use the stolen taxpayer money again for their election campaign as they have in the past three elections? I would like the bill to be paid now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'd like it paid right now....

Anybody listentening to CanuckEStan ????

...

...

Like usual, I didn't think so.....

[August1991]

Look at the poll history. Every time Harper creepes up to a substantial level of support, its followed shortly thereafter by a large drop in support.

This poll confirms my suspicion that the outcome of the election will be determined by a group of swing Liberal-NDP which represent about 5-10% of the electorate. This group of people would prefer to vote NDP but dislike the Conservatives so intensely that they will vote Liberal if it looks like the Conservatives might win power - that is why you see the polls swinging around. I don't think it has anything to do with what Harper says or does since the voters in question already hate Harper.

Similarily, any poll that says the Liberals are heading into majority terroritory will be followed by poll where Liberal support drops suddenly as these NDP swing voters switch back to the the NDP now that they believe it is safe to do so.

This behavoir leads me to believe that the next parliment will look exactly like this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sparhawk, I'm not inclined to conspiracy theories but this polling firm has done "biased" polling before - asking the key voting intention question after leading questions favourable to the Liberals. Could the Liberals be manipulating these polls? Or more likely, could this firm be publicising polls favourable to their client? This is a crucial period for the Liberals and they want the impression that, while they have taken a hit, they have bounced back quickly.

Let's wait for other polls to come out, in particular with provincial breakdowns.

With all that said, your analysis makes sense. Harper will be a key figure in this election. It may well be that English-Canada is not yet ready for someone like him.

----

And would the rest of guys please knock off the one-line insults?

[shoop]

Uhh, why shouldn't it be paid right now?

I'm listening to Stan now, not those jokes though.

You'd like it paid right now....

Anybody listentening to CanuckEStan ????

...

...

Like usual, I didn't think so.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[err]

ps. I know where I'd like to shove those "insults," bud.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pretty tough for an internet message board pal. I'm guessing you are like your idol Trudeau, all talk no balls.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trudeau had the guts to be honest with what he thought of someone or their policies....

His policies quite often were in favour of the Canadian citizen, and he had the guts to tell the USA (or other offensive group) where to get off...

Whereas Brian Mulroney had the guts only to stick it to the Canadian public, and when he came back from Washington he always had stains on the front of his suit...

[shoop]

Trudeau never realized his job was to be the Prime Minister for ALL Canadians. He never got the fact that the country existed west of Kenora. Take a look at his electoral performance for that. He went so far as to push Canada in to recession with the NEP. He score cheap political domestic points with a poisonous relationship with Reagan. He ruined the constitutional atmosphere in the country for decades by refusing to accept that Constitution Act 1982 was poorly written and should never have been passed into law.

Hmmm, Mulroney had the balls to cut spending, sign the FTA & NAFTA and push through the GST. All things that are contributing to our current wealth.

Trudeau had the guts to be honest with what he thought of someone or their policies....

His policies quite often were in favour of the Canadian citizen, and he had the guts to tell the USA (or other offensive group) where to get off... 

Whereas Brian Mulroney had the guts only to stick it to the Canadian public, and when he came back from Washington he always had stains on the front of his suit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Riverwind]

Hmmm, Mulroney had the balls to cut spending, sign the FTA & NAFTA and push through the GST. All things that are contributing to our current wealth.

And if he is elected, I really hope that Harper will have the balls to reform the antiquated Canada Health Act and end this nonsense where Ottawa collects too much tax revenue that is just handed back to the provinces with various strings attached.

[newbie]

Hmmm, Mulroney had the balls to cut spending, sign the FTA & NAFTA and push through the GST. All things that are contributing to our current wealth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right, our hero Brian had the biggest debt ever, forced GST thru senate by appointing senators (the exact thing he accused John Turner and Trudeau of doing),2 failed constitutional formulas, ruined East Coast fishery, implicated in the airbus scandal, sold out Canada thru FTA...and on and on. I'm sure the other side will counter each one of these with lies and blaming the liberals. Good luck folks. I'm outa here.

[shoop]

Good luck folks. I'm outa here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wtf does *that* mean?

[Guest eureka]

How, shoop, did the NEP "push Canada into recession?" If anything, it helped alleviate for Canada the effects of the world wide recession that began before the NEP.

How was the Constitutional Act of 1982 "badly written? Since the Act was simply yhe BNA Act with a couple of amendments, was it badly written because in 1867 the drafters were using quill pens?

If you want to denigrate Trudeau and his performance why do you not try to twist the truth instead of inventing plot. It would not be so bad if you were at all imaginative.

[August1991]

How, shoop, did the NEP "push Canada into recession?" If anything, it helped alleviate for Canada the effects of the world wide recession that began before the NEP.

How was the Constitutional Act of 1982 "badly written? Since the Act was simply yhe BNA Act with a couple of amendments, was it badly written because in 1867 the drafters were using quill pens?

If you want to denigrate Trudeau and his performance why do you not try to twist the truth instead of inventing plot. It would not be so bad if you were at all imaginative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For once, I'll step in and defend you eureka.

Trudeau never realized his job was to be the Prime Minister for ALL Canadians.

Pierre Trudeau understood perfectly that he was a leader for ALL Canadians. Criticize Trudeau as you will, but not for that.

And Shoop, the NEP (however stupid it may have been) did not push Canada into recession. Paul Volcker (and OPEC) are responsible for the devastation of Alberta's oil-patch in the early 1980s. Appointed by Jimmy Carter, Volcker was the guy who made inflation irrelevant. In the process, he caused a terrible recession.

How was the Constitutional Act of 1982 "badly written?

Well, Quebec federalists in the provincial legislature (National Assembly) voted against it. In fact, every member of the Quebec legislature voted against it. In political terms, it was very badly written. (At the time, Claude Ryan was leader of the Quebec Liberal Party. Claude Ryan was a staunch, honest politician - in the style of Stephen Harper.)

[tml12]

Trudeau never realized his job was to be the Prime Minister for ALL Canadians. He never got the fact that the country existed west of Kenora. Take a look at his electoral performance for that. He went so far as to push Canada in to recession with the NEP. He score cheap political domestic points with a poisonous relationship with Reagan. He ruined the constitutional atmosphere in the country for decades by refusing to accept that Constitution Act 1982 was poorly written and should never have been passed into law.

Hmmm, Mulroney had the balls to cut spending, sign the FTA & NAFTA and push through the GST. All things that are contributing to our current wealth.

Trudeau had the guts to be honest with what he thought of someone or their policies....

His policies quite often were in favour of the Canadian citizen, and he had the guts to tell the USA (or other offensive group) where to get off... 

Whereas Brian Mulroney had the guts only to stick it to the Canadian public, and when he came back from Washington he always had stains on the front of his suit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shoop,

First I did not begin this thread as a "Liberal love in." What it shows is that Harper is unable to hold a lead after Gomery. Already the report is out just a week and the Liberals are back up near where they were prior to November 1. Why?

Second, I agree with you that the Constitution of 1982 should have included Quebec. While Levesque misunderstood the role of the Quebec veto, Trudeau was hellbent on getting the Constitution passed for his career and his legacy. It is hard not to find both men at fault.

Third, while I am not ready to call Mulrooney the greates, I will agree that he did some fantastic things as PM (as well as some bad ones), but overall he should be remembered for his achievements.