Harper=Problem, Not Solution

[Canuck E Stan]

Given that it is an economics degree from the UofC, I would suggest that its suspect for obvious reasons - sheer hackery would (and does) earn a person a masters in economics from that school.

iss Trudeau,

Please expand on your statement..about THAT school.

[Bakunin]

Harper has no charisma, he is a bad strategist and has absolutly no clue on how to beat the liberals... I don't know why he his still running this party..

I think the conservative deserve a better leader.

[Yodeler]

I think the conservative deserve a better leader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who would you suggest?

[Guest eureka]

Does a Masters degree in economics prove the kind of intelligence that is needed to lead a political party or to be the PM of a country? Does blind ideological adherence to demonstrably wrong positions indicate the depth required for those positions?

I stand by what I said of Manning. He did achieve the creation of a party. But so did Hitler. Manning was a man obsessed by his sense of mission and adherence to the same faulty doctrines as Harper. He is still pushing those in spite of the social and economic damage caused by thei practice in a couple of provinces. He was a;ways a demagogue with the kind of unthinking following that demagogues draw.

[Canuck E Stan]

Manning was a man obsessed by his sense of mission

As I would hope any leader of any party would be.

He is still pushing those in spite of the social and economic damage caused by thei practice in a couple of provinces.

And what provinces would that be? And what economic and social damage is caused?

[Bakunin]

I think the conservative deserve a better leader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who would you suggest?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't see an exceptionnal one from the inside, maybe they should look for someone outside politics.

[Guest eureka]

Why don't you learn to read, Shoop. It can't be just a comprehension problem since the senrence was short and clear.

The most significant, Canuck, was Ontario which has not yet recovered.

And Harris is now playing alongside Manning by the baks of the Fraser spreading their childish schemes.

[Canuck E Stan]

The most significant, Canuck, was Ontario which has not yet recovered

That's ONE province you mentioned a couple that are affected by Manning practices.

What are the social and economic damage caused in Ontario by Manning practices?

While your pondering that question.

What was the economic or social damage caused by the NDP government of Bob Rae?Ontario voted him out for a reason.

What are the social and economic damage caused by Peterson?Ontario voted him out too?

[FTA Lawyer]

Does a Masters degree in economics prove the kind of intelligence that is needed to lead a political party or to be the PM of a country? Does blind ideological adherence to demonstrably wrong positions indicate the depth required for those positions?

I stand by what I said of Manning. He did achieve the creation of a party. But so did Hitler. Manning was a man obsessed by his sense of mission and adherence to the same faulty doctrines as Harper. He is still pushing those in spite of the social and economic damage caused by thei practice in a couple of provinces. He was a;ways a demagogue with the kind of unthinking following that demagogues draw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That you have stooped to such "intelligence" as to liken Preston Manning to Adolph Hitler I will respectfully bow out of this thread.

FTA Lawyer

[Guest eureka]

FTA!

I take strong exception to your accusing me of likening Manning to Hitller. There is some excuse for shoop who spends his time whining and complaining: looking for insult and fault.

There is none for you. You are a lawyer and what I wrote is not complicated nor is it a likening.

[Greg]

There is none for you. You are a lawyer and what I wrote is not complicated nor is it a likening.

It was certainly a low blow and unworthy of a diginified response. Can we not have a discussion that doesn't dissolve into a partisan pissing match?

[Guest eureka]

Actually it was not. Would it have eased the delicate sensibilities of these opportunists had I said Tommy Douglas did also?

It is the same thing but the wrong impression and not supportive of my point. There are many very good debaters here who are constantly interrupted by the searchers for cheap points.

[FTA Lawyer]

FTA!

I take strong exception to your accusing me of likening Manning to Hitller. There is some excuse for shoop who spends his time whining and complaining: looking for insult and fault.

There is none for you. You are a lawyer and what I wrote is not complicated nor is it a likening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

eureka,

I have had some valuable discussions with you on this board, but this one certainly did not turn out to be one of them.

You complain about my assertion that you likened Manning to Hitler. You say you did nothing of the sort. Objectively, what you did do was:

1. Call Manning a "certifiable nutcase";

2. Defend this comment and counter my applause of Manning's founding of a political party with "so did Hitler";

3. Refer to Manning as "obsessed by his sense of mission", "in spite of the social and economic damage caused"

4. Defined Manning as a demagogue - which as you know means "A leader who obtains power by means of impassioned appeals to the emotions and prejudices of the populace."

In my view, any reasonable person would conclude that you likened Manning to Hitler. Certainly, the moderator of this site did...and I hasten to say that his comment was inserted to remove such comments from the discussion, not to "interrupt" in search of "cheap points".

I'm a big boy, I'll get over it, and won't hold a grudge. It just seems appropriate to admit when a mistake has been made as opposed to attempt to justify it.

FTA Lawyer

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear eureka,

With regard to Manning, I do not believe he was a 'nutcase', after all, he did build up a party that had a legitimate shot at leadership of the country, perhaps the best one in decades, (at a time when 'Reform' was desperately desired) to change the status quo. However, he had the charisma and appeal of a shrivelled hot dog. I actually liked Manning, (and still do) for honesty, mostly, even though he looks like he is mildly retarded. ( I actually thought that a run of PM's, including Manning, Chretien and John Manley, with his cast eye, would make it look to the ouside world that Canada was populated by a freakshow)

[Yodeler]

I'm a big boy, I'll get over it, and won't hold a grudge.  It just seems appropriate to admit when a mistake has been made as opposed to attempt to justify it.

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It takes time to get over something like that.

Now if he were to apologize .... as we know he will ....

[Guest eureka]

I made no mistake. My opinion of Manning, as I have asserted many times, is that he and his "party" have done incalculable damage to Canada, economically and socially. He is now allied to a man who may soon be facing charges for the abuse of his office.

I actually feel sorry for Manning who I think does have mental problems and is not responsible for his behaviour. He is an obsessive "man on a mission."

However, I will not have my comments interpreted as comparing anyone to Hitler. I simply pointed out that the creation of a political party is not necessarily an achievemnet worthy of applause. Others have done the same and some are benign. Manning's creation was a disaster for the country. The very name, Reform, is a demagoguic ploy.

FTA, my comment to you was a little harsh but I was bewildered that you could not see the reasoning. For some Albertans, it would seem like a reflexive jump to defend one of their own.

You are welcome to excoriate Mike Harris and, as a broad minded Ontarian, I will agree with anything you throw at him.

[shoop]

It was certainly a low blow and unworthy of a diginified response.  Can we not have a discussion that doesn't dissolve into a partisan pissing match?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not unless the likes of Eureka be given incentive to amend their ways. His continually stirring the pot here only moves most threads he posts on into the "partisan pissing matches" you would hope to avoid.

[Canuck E Stan]

Does a Masters degree in economics prove the kind of intelligence that is needed to lead a political party or to be the PM of a country? Does blind ideological adherence to demonstrably wrong positions indicate the depth required for those positions?

I stand by what I said of Manning. He did achieve the creation of a party. But so did Hitler. Manning was a man obsessed by his sense of mission and adherence to the same faulty doctrines as Harper. He is still pushing those in spite of the social and economic damage caused by thei practice in a couple of provinces. He was a;ways a demagogue with the kind of unthinking following that demagogues draw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

The most significant, Canuck, was Ontario which has not yet recovered

That's ONE province you mentioned a couple that are affected by Manning practices.

What are the social and economic damage caused in Ontario by Manning practices?

Not enough Eureka,

Respond to your flaming statements with some facts.

[Guest eureka]

Facts, Canuck, are evident in a healthcare system in disarray. Facts are in the condition of Ontario's finances. Facts are in a 50% increase in the poverty rates in Ontario during the Harris years. Facts are evident in the deteriorating infrastructure and the disaster of Walkerton - a government induced catastrophe that is not yet repaired.

And this all comes from a Harper-like fixation with corporate taxes and shifting of wealth to the already privileged as well as the documented desire of both to destroy National public healthcare.

[err]

Facts, Canuck, are evident in a healthcare system in disarray. Facts are in the condition of Ontario's finances. Facts are in a 50% increase in the poverty rates in Ontario during the Harris years. Facts are evident in the deteriorating infrastructure and the disaster of Walkerton - a government induced catastrophe that is not yet repaired.

And this all comes from a Harper-like fixation with corporate taxes and shifting of wealth to the already privileged as well as the documented desire of both to destroy National public healthcare.

Well said.

However, it has to be said that as the "right" stretches further off to the right, the supposed "centre" party correspondingly has moved in that direction. What we need is a sharp shift back in the leftward direction...

[Yodeler]

1.  Call Manning a "certifiable nutcase";

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When someone differs greatly from other people ... simple minds don't necessarily look at HOW they differ before they puff themselves up and call that person a "nutcase". And let's face it, Preston Manning was different from other politicians. VERY different.

Preston Manning was & remains one of the few intellectuals in Canadian politics. He is also arguably the most influential man of this century in Canada. Almost every policy of BOTH of the main political parties now reflect his analysis & his ideas.

Add to that the fact that I doubt that you could find a more honest man in politics & the fact remains:

Preston Manning is the best Prime Minister Canada never had.

PS - The National Post just started a competition called 'Beautiful Minds' where they are looking for Canada's most important "public intellectual". I'm sure Preston will be nominated, and I just know that if he wins .... that that will send Eureka COMPLETELY over the brink.

And frankly, FTA Lawyer, I don't give a damn!

[err]

Preston Manning was  & remains one of the few intellectuals in Canadian politics. He is also arguably the most influential man of this century in Canada.

Your second sentence just shot any credibility you could have tried to earn ... You've lost it... completely

Almost every policy of BOTH of the main political parties now reflect his analysis & his ideas.

Counting is not one of your specialities either ????

Preston Manning is the best Prime Minister Canada never had.

And I would argue that he was one of the most important people to keep out of office ever in Canada....

PS - The National Post just started a competition called  'Beautiful Minds' where they are looking for Canada's most important "public intellectual". I'm sure Preston will be nominated, and I just know that if he wins .... that that will send Eureka COMPLETELY over the brink. 

"If he wins..." ... If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle... not very likely....

[Canuck E Stan]

Eureka,

That's ONE province you mentioned a couple that are affected by Manning practices.

You mentioned specifically "Manning" practices.What would they be?

What about the social and economic damage done by Bob Rae's NDP government? Ontario voted them out in a hurray? Remember the NDP's social contracts?

What about Peterson's Liberals,and the social and economic damage done by him,Ontario gave hin the boot too.

[err]

What about the social and economic damage done by Bob Rae's NDP government? Ontario voted them out in a hurray? Remember the NDP's social contracts?

It's almost amusing how you can distort reality by not including key facts with your statements. When Bob Rae got into power, there was a huge recession... not of his doing. Rae could have used Conservative philosophy (as Mike Harris did when he was in power) and just fired thousands of people to keep the province's books out of the red. Instead, he guaranteed every civil servants's job, but they each got a temporary 5% pay cut, until the books were in order again.

This was a small pain when shared by everybody, rather than devastation to thousands... and destruction of provincial services. I have to take my hat of to Bob Rae for his handling of a horrible inherited situation.

[prosoldier]

I agree whole-heartitly, Canadians need and want change

Herein lies the problem, Canadians can't decide on a leader. They know that they don't want the liberals, but they know for sure they don't want the so-branded, pro-american, bible-thumpin conservatives, especailly under Stephen Harper.

The conservatives need either a new leader, or a new leadership approach. But where is this new, charismatic, fix-all leader?[