Strike!

[Argus]

That is nonsense. The sad state of education is due to all the fad theories which have emerged from teaching professionals over the last thirty years, all geared to socializing and reassuring children rather than actually teaching them. I mean, "Whole Word" alone is responsible for a generation of graduates who can hardly write coherently.

There are many reasons for the state of our education system but suggesting that parents and outside organizations interfere less now then they did 30 years ago is patently untrue and combined with the massive funding cuts the results were fairly predictable.

Parents had more say when school boards were smaller and had less formalized regulations and rules, when principals had more leeway to make decisions. With school boards being as enormous as they are, and as distant from most parents, with regulations being unshakeable, and directions on school curriculum coming from inaccessable committees of educational professionals, often not even in the same city, parents have little say in course curriculum or how courses are taught. They can complain, as they did, that their kids weren't learning how to spell under "whole word" and be dismissed rather derisively by the "experts".

The odd thing is that no matter how badly the Blacks were treated in the sixties they were still better off than any minority in the Soviet Union. The Jews were far better off in the US than in any East Bloc country.

Based on what? What were you told about life in the eastern bloc?

How many visible minority members have their been of the Politiburo? None, that I'm aware of. Non-Russians weren't really trusted. As for non whites, well, forget about it. And while Jews might have been discriminated against in some sectors in the US at least they weren't arrested and beaten.

Certainly was and is a disparity. What they didn't point out was that Blacks living on welfare in Harlem were richer than most Soviet citizens, and had more to eat, with better shelter.

You have absolutely no basis upon which to compare the two. This is ideological propoganda.

Your ideological beliefs are getting in the way of reality. History is very clear on the food lineups, the shortages of basic neccessities, and the crappy, falling down apartments in the Soviet Union.

There is a large part of the Russian population moving towards the communist ideology, why do you think that is?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stupidity. And that the corruption was more discretely hidden in the Soviet era while it's massive and overwhelmingly obvious today. Also, that corruption, along with fiscal incompetence has not improved the lives of many Soviet citizens. In some ways their lives have become more difficult since the end of Communism. Many yearn for the old days of reassurance, where the Soviet Union was whole, and mighty and respected throughout the world, and they had the assurance of someone always telling them what they should be doing.

[Argus]

Workplace stress stusies have concluded that teaching is the third most stressful profession.

Perhaps teachers were simply the bigggest whiners to these studies. Where does the stress come from? There is no punishment for failure and you can't be fired. Incompetence is accepted and fairly widespread.

Any who think it is not can have had no contact with teachers and teaching. Teachers have one of the highest rates of mental breakdown.

Perhaps a reflection of the generally weaker minds of those who go into teaching.

For the stress, conditions, and remuneration, there some intresting facts. First, approximately one third of graduates of teachers colleges never enter the classroom after graduation. They have seen enough in their practise teaching assignments.

I'm not surprised. The airhead we had as a temp employee two summers told me, after her graduation, that she wasn't even sure she wanted to be a teacher. Though she had no idea what she did want to be. I think a lot of people go into teaching because school is all they know and it seems like a safe, familiar path with relative economic success.

Another third leave the profession in the first five years. They leave for the greener and less stressful fields of business and other professions - such as law.

Right. You can easily step out of a teaching job and become a lawyer. Happens all the time.

[Argus]

I did learn that the east bloc was a miserable, poverty-stricken tyranny, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The average net wage in the east bloc country where I resided was around 1500 a month.

A half a litre of premium beer in a nice bar set you back 1.20

Cigarettes ... 1.60

A good meal (schnitzel, goulash, chicken paprika etc.) in a nice bar or restaurant ... 8.50

Rent ... 200

And, since there were no sizable differences between men's wallets girls judged you strictly by your wit & good looks.

I had a GREAT time there!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, okay. My mistake there, Yodeler. Life in the Soviet era was a workers paradise throughout the east bloc. Dunno how I could have thought differently.

Strange how all Communist countries had concentric rings of barbed wire fences, guard towers with machineguns, dog patrols and mines to keep their people from fleeing, though. I never quite figured that out. Probably they were just trying to get to decent strip clubs in the decadent West.

[Guest eureka]

Many ex-teachers have gone to law schools, Argus. Did you know that it is harder to get into a Concurrent Education program than into Law? The cutoff is higher.

[Yodeler]

Strange how all Communist countries had concentric rings of barbed wire fences, guard towers with machineguns, dog patrols and mines to keep their people from fleeing, though. I never quite figured that out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They worried about the "Brain Drain".

What IS strange is that Canada's Liberals don't.

[Argus]

Strange how all Communist countries had concentric rings of barbed wire fences, guard towers with machineguns, dog patrols and mines to keep their people from fleeing, though. I never quite figured that out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They worried about the "Brain Drain".

And having no people left.

[Yodeler]

Strange how all Communist countries had concentric rings of barbed wire fences, guard towers with machineguns, dog patrols and mines to keep their people from fleeing, though. I never quite figured that out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They worried about the "Brain Drain".

And having no people left.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah ... we were a smart bunch.

[Durgan]

Originally posted by cliochannel: Reality for the doubting about stress levels.

A heated topic to be sure. Having said that, I would rather be in the classroom than out on the street. Forget the damn salary increase and put more teaching assistants in the classroom.

Did you know that there are children with the mental age of 2 and 3 years old sitting in intermediate classrooms and they do not have full time teaching assistants? Did you know that a primary class teacher had to leave her classroom of children and take a wheelchair bound, partially paralyzed, mentally handicapped child with a mental age of 3 years old to the bathroom and toilet him and wipe his bottom because he does not have a full time teaching assistant? As he gets older his TA hours decrease.

Did you know that educably mentally handicapped children (IQ between 55 and 69) do not get funded for any teaching assistant time in elementary school, yet in high school they will be put into a special class?

Did you know that if you have an autistic child in kindergarten for 12 and a half hours per week, he will only be funded for 6 hours of teaching assistant time. Did you know that dyslexia is found in about 10% of the population, and there is no extra funding for them--that means in a high school of 1500 students, there will likely be 150 dyslexic students.

Did you know that moderately mentally handicapped students (IQ below 55) are in the classrooms with only partial TA support.

Did you know that mental illnesses such as bi-polar are also present in young children and they are in classrooms, with no support?

Let me describe a classroom to you, and this is not an unusual classroom--this is today's reality. It is not an inner city classroom but at a 'middle class' school.

The classroom has 30 students. Two students have been diagnosed by their psychiatrists and pediatricians as mentally ill--one has severe depression and sits in class and mumbles and moans, the other child is bi-polar and when on a 'high' sings at the top of his lungs. 3 children have attention deficit disorder, and as it is their parents right to choose treatment options, they are not on medication. There are 4 dyslexic students in the classroom.

There are 4 ESL children in the classroom--two speak minimal English, two do not speak English at all.

There is one student with a mental age of three who has cerebral palsy, is in a wheelchair, and has major hearing loss and wears a hearing aid.

The reality is that there are more and more special needs students in the system each year. As medical advances increase the survival rate of premature and fragile newborns, more of these children will survive with major health and learning issues, and they will be in the regular classroom.

Ten years ago, the one and two pound preemies did not survive. Now they do. Did you know that autism is on the rise? Did you know that Oppositional Defiant disorder is on the rise, and is found in younger and younger children?

Ask me about all the summers over the past thirty years of trying to support the special needs students, that I have spent taking courses with my colleagues. Ask me about the Crisis Intervention courses we have taken to help us deal with violent students.

Ask me about the times my colleagues and I have been struck at and threatened by a child. Ask me about the children with acquired brain injuries from accidents who don't get teaching assistant support.

Ask me about the 'gray area' students with IQ's between 70 and 80 who will struggle and struggle, but will not fit into a Ministry category.

Ask me about the two year waiting list to have a school psychologist (some of whom work at 9 or 10 schools and are only able to be testing at each school 1 or 2 mornings a month) test a child for a learning disability, or special needs issue such as being in the mentally handicapped range.

The teacher's strike? Both sides need to stop being bull headed and sit down to talk.

The decrease in the numbers of kids in school--true, but the reality is that of those that are still in the school system probably 30 to 35% have some sort of special need.

If you have a grandchild about to enter school? Send them to a private school--not because the teachers are superior, because most of them have screening and entry requirements and do not have to take all comers like the public schools--they can keep out all the special needs kids if they choose, and the teachers can teach without their attention being diverted.

Reality--will funding every keep up with the number of special needs students entering the public school system?

No, there are just too many special needs kids coming in to the system--more autistic, more mentally handicapped, more cerebral palsy kids.

I have taught these children for over thirty years as a school based support teacher, and have seen the class composition change over the years.

Do you know someone who has a child graduating from a teaching college? Tell them that that eager graduate should look toward the private system.

I have loved my career with special needs kids.

My own son had hoped to go into teaching--he spent volunteer hours in several classrooms in several different schools, helping out (a criteria now for those entering teaching programs). He saw the reality, and chose to give up a lifelong dream, and take another career path.

So, from a special education teacher's point of view, I wish the top levels of both sides would quit the bloody posturing and sit down and talk, and let me get back to work.

But please, spend money on getting more teaching assistants into the schools--we are quite literally drowning in special needs students, and there is no end in sight.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reality check.

Durgan.

[August1991]

As many as 15,000 unionized workers shut down the British Columbia capital yesterday, staging a protest in support of teachers on their sixth day of an illegal strike.

National Post

This seems to be a Margaret Thatcher moment. Who controls government: politicians or public sector union leaders?

If Gordon Campbell gives in (as Edward Heath did), he might as well hand over the public bank accounts to the union leaders and let them decide taxation rates. The handover will be short lived (as Edward Heath's government was).

I stated elsewhere that the North American Left and European Left differ. In this BC teachers dispute, they are similar. But German unions handle confrontation better, and the French unions handle it best of all.

[Riverwind]

I stated elsewhere that the North American Left and European Left differ.  In this BC teachers dispute, they are similar.  But German unions handle confrontation better, and the French unions handle it best of all.

French unions shut down the entire country in order to preserve absurd entitlements. I don't understand why you used to adjective 'best' to describe French unions - they are clearly the least willing to adjust to the new realities. I am very surprised that the French put up with such nonsense.

It is interesting the BCUW has avoided shutting down Vancouver. I suspect it is because they know public opinion would turn rapidly against them if they did.

On another note, there are a number of class actions by parents that have started against the unions. I hope they succeed and the unions are forced to pay for the consequences of their actions.

[Guest eureka]

Durgan you waste time with most people. They have been conditioned to hate schools and teachers and their minds are firmly closed.

I know what you are saying. My daughter who is not a Soecial Needs teacher once had to take a Special Needs class for a year. The entitlement was for 4 TA's and she had one for part of the year and a volunteer for the rest. That was in Harris's Ontario.

I also did some writing for the teachers wrt Harris's Bill 160; Ontario's attack on the profession and school system. I became quite familiar with the problems.

Part of what I wrote then was justification for an "illegal" strike and the duty for disobedience to an unjust law. I think, from everything I read, that in B.C. we have a similar situation which requires support for the teachers action.

This is an attack on democracy by the government of B.C.

[Argus]

Originally posted by cliochannel: Reality for the doubting about stress levels.

A heated topic to be sure. Having said that, I would rather be in the classroom than out on the street. Forget the damn salary increase and put more teaching assistants in the classroom.

Did you know that there are children with the mental age of 2 and 3 years old sitting in intermediate classrooms and they do not have full time teaching assistants? Did you know that a primary class teacher had to leave her classroom of children and take a wheelchair bound, partially paralyzed, mentally handicapped child with a mental age of 3 years old to the bathroom and toilet him and wipe his

And who came up with the idea of putting severely mentally and physically handicapped children into normal classrooms? It was the educational professionals, of course, smug with confidence in their theories, certain of their own moral superiority in doing what was best for the handicapped. Of course, the only way the handicapped could possibly handle normal classes in the slightest was with extremely expensive one on one teaching assistants. And even then the rest of the class suffered for their presence. It was always a stupid idea and remains so. Severely mentally, emotionally or physically handicapped children should all be removed from regular classes and put back into special classes in specialized schools.

Personally, I think it's pretty much a waste of time to educate most of them anyway. It's not like they're ever going to be using that education for anything. It's just hideously expensive babysitting and a sop to parents who like to think their kids are "normal".

Let me describe a classroom to you, and this is not an unusual classroom--this is today's reality. It is not an inner city classroom but at a 'middle class' school.

The classroom has 30 students. Two students have been diagnosed by their psychiatrists and pediatricians as mentally ill--one has severe depression and sits in class and mumbles and moans, the other child is bi-polar and when on a 'high' sings at the top of his lungs. 3 children have attention deficit disorder, and as it is their parents right to choose treatment options, they are not on medication. There are 4 dyslexic students in the classroom.

There are 4 ESL children in the classroom--two speak minimal English, two do not speak English at all.

There is one student with a mental age of three who has cerebral palsy, is in a wheelchair, and has major hearing loss and wears a hearing aid.

First of all, this is a wild exaggeration. There aren't that many special needs kids in one class. Usually there are none. Second, the answer is to elect real conservatives who will tell the teaching and social services establishments where to get off and do the right thing by getting all the "special needs" kids out of normal schools. As for all the ESL kids. They should be in special schools too, language schools. Until they can speak English properly they should not be in public schools. If that means they have to put off entering school for a year or two, or three, so be it. Their parents should have done more to teach them English before they became of school age.

[Argus]

I also did some writing for the teachers wrt Harris's Bill 160; Ontario's attack on the profession and school system. I became quite familiar with the problems.

What Harris tried to do was set right an utterly incompetent, fantastically expensive system which produced legions of graduates without basic education. The educational establishment with its ivory tower theories has turned basic teaching into a bizarre exercise in social engineering. What he should have done was gone into the Ministry of Education and fired everyone but the clerks. Then taken over direct funding of schools (eliminating the boards) while leaving curiculum decisions in the hands of local parent/teacher committees at the school level.