French Patriot Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Was god choosing Jesus just; or should the Father have chosen the cross for himself? 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. Chose here means Jesus being chosen to be the messiah and sacrifice to the Father. It also means the Father, --- and Judge in this case, --- deciding to demand and accept what is synonymous to a bribe. That is an evil act to most people. If you were the god you are to emulate, would you send your child to die or would you step up? Should sons bury fathers or should fathers bury sons? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) Some writers created the story of Jesus as being THE son of God. The use in literature of a son from a God is not original: Here are people who took the form of men and then ascended into heaven:Salivahana of Bermuda Zulis or Zhule of Egypt[13] Osiris of Egypt Oru of Egypt Odin of the Scandinavians Zoroaster of Persia Baal of Phoenicia Taut, "the only Begotten of God" of Phoenicia, inventor of letters[14] Bali of Afghanistan Xamolxis (Zalmoxis) of Thrace Zoar of the Bonzes Adad of Assyria Deva Tat of Siam (Thailand) Sammonocadam (Sommona-Codom) of Siam (Thailand)[15] Alcides of Thebes Mikado of the Sintoos Beddru of Japan Bremrillah of the Druids[16] Thor son of Odin of the Gauls/Norse Cadmus of Greece Hil/Feta of the Mandaites[17] Gentaut of Mexico[18] Universal Monarch of the Sibyls Ischy of Formosa (Taiwan)[19] Divine Teacher of Plato Holy One of Xaca[20] (Fohi) of China Tien of China Adonis son of the virgin Io of Greece Ixion of Rome Mohamud or Mahomet of Arabia. Here are further stories of divine figures: Odysseus Romulus Dionysus Heracles Glycon Zoroaster Attis of Phrygia Horus Moses Herculese Here’s another list of saviours: Thulis of Egypt, 1700 B. C.[5] Krishna of India, 1200 B.C. Crite of Chaldea, 1200 B.C.[6][7] Atys of Phrygia, 1170 B.C. Thammuz or Tammuz of Syria, 1160 B.C. Hesus or Eros 834 B.C. Bali of Orissa, 725 B.C.[8] Indra of Thibet (Tibet), 725 B.C. Iao of Nepaul (Nepal), 622 B.C.[9][10] Buddha Sakia (Muni) of India, 600 B.C.[11] Mitra (Mithra) of Persia, 600 B.C. Alcestos of Euripides, 600 B.C. Quezalcoatl of Mexico, 587 B.C. Wittoba of the Bilingonese, 552 B.C.[12] Prometheus or Æschylus of Caucasus, 547 B.C. Quirinus of Rome, 506 B.C. Here is the point. Original gnostic Christianity has no documents ever found referring to Jesus as THE son of God. The creation of Jesus as THE only son of God sent to earth to save the world is a pagan story. That pagan story like many other pagan beliefs was merged with gnostic Christian beliefs on the order of King Constantine of Rome heading off a civil war between Christians and pagans. He ordered writers into seclusion to create a series of stories merging the Pagan and Christian stories. The days of the week are pagan names. The choosing of Eucharist a pagan holiday celebrating the darkest night of the year and merging it with Christ's birthday is a clear example Christ's birthday if you believe he was born based on the star constellations would be sometime between the end of March and April. The cross now used by Christians was not the original symbol, the sign of the fish, Pisces was. The cross is actually a pagan symbol. When people quote the New testament as you have you have been brought up to believe it can not be questioned and you just assume its the word of God. It is written by humans who base their beliefs as to what Jesus did or said, on indirect evidence, none of it first hand. In fact in original Christianity there was no church. Worship and prayer was a private matter of meditation. You could be anywhere to pray. In original Christianity everyone was said to be a particle of energy from the same source of energy which was neither defined as male or female but was We were said to have chosenthis life form to define the meaning and purpose of life as part of a never ending lesson we set out on. We are deliberately equal parts of negative and positive energy as the clash between the two fuels the movement of us to find and create meaning and purpose through compromises or balancing these opposing tendencies. When we do positive things without expecting anything in return, we set off a ripple effect of positivity that comes back to be felt b y us when we least expect it. In reverse if we do negative things, we set off a ripple effect of negativity that comes back to be felt by us when we least expect it. That is the central belief in most all religions and in the concept of Teekam Olem which Christ would have taught and Christians today call the Golden Rule. Jesus Christ personified, was created in human form to explain what all life forms set out to do.By explaining this concept as a human doing it, it made it easier for some to then understand. Your Jesus is an attempt to personify the abstract energy flow giving an easier to understand explanation for where it came from and who it will share itself with. You God, your bible, your Jesus, they come from a book written by humans, and you choose to give them meaning to guide your behavior and assume they are the only vision to see in the universe. I respect that. I would suggest to you what you see is what you now choose to see. If you adjust the lense you look through, you will see other things as well. Jesus as an agent to teach healing and humility is a wonderful lesson. There are other vehicles that also can teach this The problem is the very same stories of Jesus are used by those in the name of Jesus to justify intolerance, hatred, killing and wars. If any human of any religion tries to impose their beliefs on others because they believe only their beliefs are the correct ones,this sets the stage for war, violence, conflict. So I would say in answer to you that you answered your question when you posed it. You already believe you have your answer and want others to agree with you. I do not agree or disagree. My beliefs would not be something you would understand and from the sounds of how you pose questions, you would NOT want to consider. Just the fact I believe the term "savior" means the potential in all of us by our actions to heal or injure the world in which we live meaning Jesus was simply an allegory for what we all are, would not be accepted by you. I do not believe any human is more divine or less divine than any other form of energy called life on this planet. I believe all energy life forms have meaning and purpose but most of these meanings and purposes will remain a mystery to us unless we look for them in a creative, open minded manner. I believe evil is a human construct as is goodness and both are equal tendencies in our inherent nature. I do not believe as Satan as a life form. I see it as negative energy that is capable of clustering in a large form or breaking into smaller forms of movement and we choose to embrace or reject t but ultimately we choose whether we embrace or reject it-your free choice ultimately to reject or accept comes out. Your concept of being deceived by an external force, I believe is we as individual forms deceiving ourselves. I believe we create and project what you would call Satan when we are afraid or fear learning something or fear we do not have the ability to do something. The only Satan I know comes from the reflection of my image in a mirror. Some days it looms large, other days it does not exist. I do think people can use their energy to influence others in seeing the same image of it and in so doing magnify its seeming existence. When people worship materialist values, inanimate objects, value based on accumulation not sharing, I believe they build up this negative energy and others add to it by imitating such behavior. I believe a miracle is any act no matter how small where a positive reaction to a positive action occurs and serves as a lesson how to continue that positive continuance of thought/energy. That to me is the creation of new life. Edited October 13, 2019 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 18 hours ago, Rue said: Jesus as an agent to teach healing and humility is a wonderful lesson. I disagree as many of his moral tenets were not moral at all. I especially dislike his no divorce for women and substitutional punishment policies. I did not notice you answering the question in the O.P. Care to? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted October 13, 2019 Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, French Patriot said: I disagree as many of his moral tenets were not moral at all. I especially dislike his no divorce for women and substitutional punishment policies. I did not notice you answering the question in the O.P. Care to? Regards DL Hi. I rewrote my answer above. Please its not meant to tell others how to think only to say how I think. I am just expressing my personal opinion. As for what you said, here would be my answer. I believe much of what was written in the New Testament and for that matter Old Testament has to be questioned. It was written at a time and in a context where things we consider today as immoral were considered moral. I believe morality is an ever changing concept reflected in the writings of humans as it was at the time the passages in the Bible were written. Thus I would question much of what was written in the Bible. As a Jew we created a Talmud to give us a guide how to debate and continue to challenge each and every sentence in the Bible. We do not see any passage or set of words as having one fixed or literal meaning and that the purpose of the Talmud is to continue to come up with new meanings and applications of the very same sentences. So obviously I am not an Orthodox Jew. I am not a fundamentalist. I am very out there reform alternative in thought using many constucts from many disciplines like Taoism, Bhuddism, Hinduism, certain Existentialists and so on. I believe in many formal religions such as Christianity that there is still a prevalent belief your read the New Testament or whatever Holy Book it may be, literally, and so you can not question and most conform to and follow the literal meaning dictated to you by so called experts who are either clergy or missionaries or self-appointed preachers who believe it is their mission to convert you to their belief system because they believe if they don't you will go to hell. So I have a lot of issues and disagreements with many passages. I read the Bible and any holy book as I do Aesop's Fables. I believe they are supposed to provide parables to explain lessons on how we are supposed to behave if we are to repress our primal tendencies and be civilized. I believe religion is an exercise to control we primatesfrom killing each other. I believe it is a code of customs we created as primates (apes) so the pack we live in can be cohesive. I agree with Freud that if we do not repress certain primal tendencies such as anger, rape, murder, our societies can not develop and create civilized interactions So I probably would agree with every tenet you read and find immoral for the exact same reasons but would explain that the immorality arises when we humans apply words in a specific context and application to give them their immoral meaning. The BIble is written by humans. The New Testament is all heresay. It's all many times removed versions of what people THINK Jesus said. Me personally I believe the very exercise of writing the New Testament was political and used to head off a civil war between Pagans and Christians by mixing the two. I believe the creation of a physical house of worship and a confessional booth had nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with King Constantine creating an institution he could use to spy on people to see what they were up to and control them through clergy favourable to his biddings. I also read much of the New Testament in a positive way. I choose to recontextualize it as a code of civil behavior and lessons on positive behavior. I believe we all have the potential to be saviours and literally heal each other through positive acts where we expect nothing back in terms of reward or compensation. I believe when we do that we act morally. I think that was the pith and substance of not just Christianity but all religions but may get lost in the translation by people who miss the very simple meaning intended. That said I believe I know nothing more than you and would defer to your opinions as well if they work for you. In my scheme of things I a simple life form not wanting to harm other life forms and simply want to be a salient being whose interactions with other life forms is benevolent and symbiotic not parasitical. I claim no truth or wisdom just a source to generate discussions on spiritual concepts. Edited October 13, 2019 by Rue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted October 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2019 Rue I see another Gnostic. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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