$400 for every man woman and child in Alberta

[fellowtraveller]

That was my original contention, but the 1930 act seems to transfer all 'de facto ownership rights' to the provinces themselves (that is, provincial gov'ts, not the residents)

Didn't the 1930 Act simply provide to Alberta and Saskatchewan the same rights to resources enjoyed by the original signatories in Confederation? Those rights were specifically excluded in the Alberta Act of 1905.

Note that the original signatories zealously and fiercely guard those rights without any criticism to this day.

[Guest eureka]

What about a monumental Mount Rushmore-like homage to Klein and Lougheed et al. They could be on the highest peak of the foothills looking out over their domain. "I am Monarch of all I survey, there is none can deny me my right," could be the inscriptions.

The question of ownership of resources is a good one. There is no doubt that this is provincial domain; for all provinces. However, there was never an intention to confer windfalls on any province. The policy was to provide each province with the revenue resources to maintain themselves.

A windfall for Alberta at the expense of others; for that is what is happening, anounts to unjust enrichment and should not be countenanced. It is not in the National Interest.

[B. Max]

However, there was never an intention to confer windfalls on any province.

Where does it say that.

The policy was to provide each province with the revenue resources to maintain themselves.

Which is what alberta is doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alberta already sends around ten billion dollars a year more than it gets back to the rest of the country. If the east had its way it would take every cent out of alberta, and has shown in the past it could care less about albertans.

[sutherland]

However, there was never an intention to confer windfalls on any province.

Where does it say that.

The policy was to provide each province with the revenue resources to maintain themselves.

Which is what alberta is doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alberta already sends around ten billion dollars a year more than it gets back to the rest of the country. If the east had its way it would take every cent out of alberta, and has shown in the past it could care less about albertans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the end, I this argument is not about money. If it were you would think that people in the east would be grateful for $10B+, but it would seem that at least three out of five want it all.

There is one other logical explanation - that the east is motivated by a desire to protect their power - at any cost. This is about power, since currently Ontario and Quebec have all the power and it will be a cold day in Hell before they share it.

Ontarian Premier McGuinty is thinking long-term here. In a representative "democracy" like ours, the source of power, ultimately, is population. As long as the Ontarians outnumber the Albertans by a ratio of four-to-one, they can decisively out-vote them come election time. But the Ontarian Premier knows that that balance may eventually be upset given present trends, unless easterners do something about it.

That's where the money comes in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that money is what is attracting people to Alberta. So the more money they can steal from the Albertans, the fewer Albertans there will be to threaten their power base. 12 million to 3 million is a manageble ratio, but if it were ever to get to 12 or 13 million to even 6 million then the numbers might get a little iffy. So McGuinty and co. have to find a way to make sure our numbers never approach 6 million.

That's why I get a little riled up when people from the rest of the country are sticking their grubby hands out for a (bigger) piece of the pie. Because while they're gobbling it up like little piggies without even tasting it, the Albertan Premier (as they have done since Lougheed) will be respectfully asking for a greater say in the national decision-making process in exchange for Albertan generosity, only to be told to f*** off.

In the end, they only want us to share money they know they will squander so that they may never have to share their power.

[kimmy]

What about a monumental Mount Rushmore-like homage to Klein and Lougheed et al. They could be on the highest peak of the foothills looking out over their domain. "I am Monarch of all I survey, there is none can deny me my right," could be the inscriptions.

My, that was constructive. Your histrionics make it seem like you've been drinking ScottBrison and I Miss Trudeau's Kool-Aid.

The question of ownership of resources is a good one. There is no doubt that this is provincial domain; for all provinces. However, there was never an intention to confer windfalls on any province. The policy was to provide each province with the revenue resources to maintain themselves.

A windfall for Alberta at the expense of others; for that is what is happening, anounts to unjust enrichment and should not be countenanced. It is not in the National Interest.

I've heard it suggested before that Canadians have endured an artificially low exchange rate for years, for the benefit of supporting the manufacturing sector.

I've also heard it suggested-- by yourself, I believe-- that the change in the exchange rate might spur increases in productivity and modernization of equipment. I will have to go dig up good old Syrup's "rising dollar" thread to see what exactly you wrote, but it seems to me that you were not so negative on the subject until it suited your argument to be so.

-k

[Riverwind]

I've heard it suggested before that Canadians have endured an artificially low exchange rate for years, for the benefit of supporting the manufacturing sector.

Three points: the artificially low exchange rate was not a result of any explicit gov't policy so you cannot say it was for 'the benefit of the manufacturing sector' - you could say the 'the manufacturering sector benefitted'.

Second, the resource sector (including oil companies) also benefited from the low dollar because it made them more profitable when resource prices were low - the translated into more jobs in places like Alberta.

Lastly, the dollar is artificially high now due to largely oil causes disproportionate problems for the manufacturing sector - a fairly valued dollar would be in 75-80 cent range therefore it is not reasonable to suggest that a 85-90 cent dollar is simply a 'long overdue correction' needed to improve productivity.

There is an irony to the self-righteous debate about Alberta's oil revenues and the dollar. If the carnage in the manufacturing sector continues and the dollar stays rediculously high you could see the federal gov't go back into deficit (much like what Japan has done for the last 10 years). This would eventually result in higher income taxes and GST for Albertans. So the question is not really should not be 'should Alberta keep all of the oil money and tell the rest of the country to piss off?' but 'should Alberta invest part of the oil money in the rest of the country to help prevent future tax increases?'.

[fellowtraveller]

The question of ownership of resources is a good one. There is no doubt that this is provincial domain; for all provinces. However, there was never an intention to confer windfalls on any province. The policy was to provide each province with the revenue resources to maintain themselves.

A windfall for Alberta at the expense of others; for that is what is happening, anounts to unjust enrichment and should not be countenanced. It is not in the National Interest

This place is Orwellian at times.

So, provinces are allowed to own the resource when the price is low, but not when it is profitable?

I say nationalize all Maritime oil. Take away the right of First Nations to particpate in Arctic oil, and gas. Nationalize Quebec and Manitoba hydro. Nationalize Ontario industry, all of it.

There is a chance they may do well.

[CamTheCat]

I'd love to see that cash come back to me and my wife. My 17 month old son won't know that he received the cash, but that's not the point. We as a family will receive extra because we have a child. I see how bussinesses might think they're getting stiffed, but this isn't a business tax rebate, it's a personal one. It's obviously not based on who contributes what to the system.

I just want the cash - I know that if the Liberals invest it I'll never see it. It does feel dirty though, like the liberals are saying, "Say, we've destroyed a lot of Alberta in the name of oil and gas, so here's a few bucks to keep you from whining."

Cameron

[Hawk]

I'd love to see that cash come back to me and my wife. My 17 month old son won't know that he received the cash, but that's not the point. We as a family will receive extra because we have a child. I see how bussinesses might think they're getting stiffed, but this isn't a business tax rebate, it's a personal one. It's obviously not based on who contributes what to the system.

I just want the cash - I know that if the Liberals invest it I'll never see it. It does feel dirty though, like the liberals are saying, "Say, we've destroyed a lot of Alberta in the name of oil and gas, so here's a few bucks to keep you from whining."

Cameron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True but keep in mind this is a provincial rebate, not a federal one

I for one am looking forward to this, it will return to me a paycheque of taxes that normally would simply be thrown at some social program (or the 'first nations' people, funny how we are still being blamed for their own self-made problems)

[Trindy]

Why is it that people who know very little about Alberta government funds, are so very vocal! How many people actually take the time to look into the amount of programs that the government is contributing to. (www.gov.ab.ca will get you started) They are investing money, building schools, etc. The rest of the country is turning green with envy and holding out their hands, if Ontario had a surplus they surely would NOT spread it around! Why then is Alberta expected to?

This $400/person is a welcome break for those who NEED it.

To those who don't, and feel it is a waste of the provincial funds, you can always send it back or donate it to your local charities. That way, you can choose for yourself where the funds go!

[Durgan]

Sounds a bit like the policies of the Social Credit Party from about 1935 1968. It was sharing the wealth. I don't suppose anybody remembers the funny money of the Social Credit. Alberta grew tremendously under the guidence of the Social Credit Party. Maybe the Baptist's had something going for them. Of course, the depression probably helped to some degree. Anything was bettter than what they had during the 1930's. Fortunately the WWII came along and suddenly money was available. Full employment and prosperity all around. You figure.

A little bit like buying your vote. There are probably other ways to use the money more appropiately. Most people will not complain about a handout even if it is some of their own money. Nice political move on Klein's part. Martin are you listening?

As an aside, what ever happened to the five or so billion Heritage Fund 1970- 1980) that Alberta set aside for use in hard times?

Durgan.

[LifeEtern]

So when are these 400 dollar cheques coming? (I heard something like November?)

[Tom Sindlinger]

"As an aside, what ever happened to the five or so billion Heritage Fund 1970- 1980) that Alberta set aside for use in hard times?

Durgan."

I was a Member of the Legislative Committee for the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund in 1980.

The purpose of the Fund, established in 1976, was to provide a source of investment income for when non renewable resource revenue declined; to strengthen or diversify alberta's economy; and, to improve the quality of life through projects providing long term social and economic benefits.

The Fund created medical research endowments (which still exit); supported oil sands technology research (which is the basis of today's production from oil sands); provided grants to universities and colleges and created scholarship endowments (one of which I started, the Jimmy Condon Scholarships, which have provided $18,930,467 to 22,458 Alberta students); and, among many other things, provided special loans to other provinces (thereby sharing Alberta's good fortune with other Canadians).

All of this was for the benefit of future Albertans (that is, you and me today). Today, however, there is no "future" in the Heritage Fund or the Alberta Government's handling of non renewable resource revenue.

The value of the Heritage Fund today ia about $11.4 billion.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Mr. Sindlinger,

(one of which I started, the Jimmy Condon Scholarships,

I have played hockey in 'Jimmy's Condom' arena, (right beside Norma's Bush Arena), what a coincidence.

Anyway, word on the street is that you were 'booted' from the PC party for your stance on the Heritage Fund. What, exactly, did you disagree with?

[fellowtraveller]

"A little bit like buying your vote. There are probably other ways to use the money more appropiately. Most people will not complain about a handout even if it is some of their own money. Nice political move on Klein's part. Martin are you listening?"

Why would the Tories feel any need to buy votes?

A large majority of Albertans have voted for them for a very long time, through some very tough times too.

[Freshinit]

As an 18 year old Calgarian, this cheque is like a present from God. However, as I view it in the big picture, this is a huge waste of our tax dollars. Our surplus is the result of poorly planned fiscal policy by the Klein Government.

On a moral standpoint, I would like to see this money invested in Basic African infrastructure. African slave labour was a major contributing factor to the creation of the American economy, and indirectly the Canadian economy. Now that we have reaped the benefits of such labour and have advanced technologically on an unprecendented level, I say we give something back. Basic survival necessities such as food, clean water and healthcare are not available. If this $1.2 billion would be invested into unilateral militia forces such as the U.N, we could bring down African tyrannies and set up long standing democratic Governments. After the initial overthrow of at least one country, it would provide hope to citizens of neighbouring countries. Much like a domino effect, revolutions would arise surrounding this newly independent country. Infrastructure comes later, with self sustaining African economies.

[Black Dog]

Why would the Tories feel any need to buy votes?

A large majority of Albertans have voted for them for a very long time, through some very tough times too.

Well, given the 33 per cent drop in Tory support in the last election from 2001, they must figure a little vote-buying can't hurt. And, given the stageringly low voter turnout (particularily in the last election) I'd hardly call the 20 per cent of the total population who voted Tory a "huge majority".

[Melanie_]

As an 18 year old Calgarian, this cheque is like a present from God. However, as I view it in the big picture, this is a huge waste of our tax dollars. Our surplus is the result of poorly planned fiscal policy by the Klein Government.

On a moral standpoint, I would like to see this money invested in Basic African infrastructure. African slave labour was a major contributing factor to the creation of the American economy, and indirectly the Canadian economy. Now that we have reaped the benefits of such labour and have advanced technologically on an unprecendented level, I say we give something back. Basic survival necessities such as food, clean water and healthcare are not available. If this $1.2 billion would be invested into unilateral militia forces such as the U.N, we could bring down African tyrannies and set up long standing democratic Governments. After the initial overthrow of at least one country, it would provide hope to citizens of neighbouring countries. Much like a domino effect, revolutions would arise surrounding this newly independent country. Infrastructure comes later, with self sustaining African economies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like your idealism, in trying to do something positive for developing nations, but I'm not buying into another round of democracy by the sword.

Good luck convincing your fellow Albertans to give up their cash!

[FTA Lawyer]

As an 18 year old Calgarian, this cheque is like a present from God. However, as I view it in the big picture, this is a huge waste of our tax dollars. Our surplus is the result of poorly planned fiscal policy by the Klein Government.

On a moral standpoint, I would like to see this money invested in Basic African infrastructure. African slave labour was a major contributing factor to the creation of the American economy, and indirectly the Canadian economy. Now that we have reaped the benefits of such labour and have advanced technologically on an unprecendented level, I say we give something back. Basic survival necessities such as food, clean water and healthcare are not available. If this $1.2 billion would be invested into unilateral militia forces such as the U.N, we could bring down African tyrannies and set up long standing democratic Governments. After the initial overthrow of at least one country, it would provide hope to citizens of neighbouring countries. Much like a domino effect, revolutions would arise surrounding this newly independent country. Infrastructure comes later, with self sustaining African economies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now Alberta is obliged to save Africa? Are we to take the blame for failures of Federal Foreign Policy? Should the G-8 just stop meeting and hand things over to King Ralph?

Oh, and by the way, ask the U.S. about how far 1.2 billion will go toward bringing down tyrranical gov'ts and replacing them with long-standing and stable democracies (about 8 hours into day 2).

Talk about out of left field.

And if the cheque is "like a present from God" how can it possibly be a waste of tax dollars?

FTA Lawyer

[Toro]

African slave labour was a major contributing factor to the creation of the American economy, and indirectly the Canadian economy. Now that we have reaped the benefits of such labour and have advanced technologically on an unprecendented level, I say we give something back. Basic survival necessities such as food, clean water and healthcare are not available. If this $1.2 billion would be invested into unilateral militia forces such as the U.N, we could bring down African tyrannies and set up long standing democratic Governments. After the initial overthrow of at least one country, it would provide hope to citizens of neighbouring countries. Much like a domino effect, revolutions would arise surrounding this newly independent country. Infrastructure comes later, with self sustaining African economies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While your sentiments are laudable, your assessment is a bit off. Slavery retarded the progress of the American economy and American society. America today would have been better without it.

[Tom Sindlinger]

Dear Mr. Sindlinger,

(one of which I started, the Jimmy Condon Scholarships,

I have played hockey in 'Jimmy's Condom' arena, (right beside Norma's Bush Arena), what a coincidence.

Anyway, word on the street is that you were 'booted' from the PC party for your stance on the Heritage Fund. What, exactly, did you disagree with?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for asking about my stance on the Alberta Heritage Trust Fund when I was an MLA.

I thought the concept of the Fund was solid. I was critical of the lack of accountability for the Fund's management. For example, the answer to my questions like - "who is on the private panel that makes recommendations", or "why was there a $60 million dollar loss last year" - was "we can not tell you because it would compromise the investment strategy of the Fund". This answer was very perplexing.

A subsequent audit report stated "There is considerable scope for collusion between an investment trader employed by the Treasury Department and someone in one of the brokerage houses, which could result in fraud."

So, feeling that public funds should be dealt with in public, I spoke in favour of a freedom of information bill (which Alberta now has). Although this could be considered publicly responsible, it was politically troublesome. The caucus asked me to toe the party line, to which I said "no, thank you", and, as you put it, I was "booted" from the caucus, but not the party.

I completed my term as an Independent Conservative. I am a member of the Alberta PC Party today........Tom

[Freshinit]

Now Alberta is obliged to save Africa?  Are we to take the blame for failures of Federal Foreign Policy?  Should the G-8 just stop meeting and hand things over to King Ralph?

Oh, and by the way, ask the U.S. about how far 1.2 billion will go toward bringing down tyrranical gov'ts and replacing them with long-standing and stable democracies (about 8 hours into day 2).

Talk about out of left field.

And if the cheque is "like a present from God" how can it possibly be a waste of tax dollars?

FTA Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was reffering to the average 18 year old's perspective. For most youth, this cheque just means free booze and weed for the next month, nothing more.

As for the futile nature of $1.2 billion in bringing down tyrannical Governments, maybe in the Middle East, this is Africa we're talking about. There's a key difference between the middle east and Africa, oil, and the profits oil brings.

[Semperfi_dani]

I have no problem with getting money But i do have a problem in the way its dolled out.

Do you give me who pays more than my fair share of taxes 400.00..and give my 8 year old sister (yes..i have a sister 20 years younger than me ) 400.00? She does not work. She does not pay the energy bills. She does not contribute to the society in taxes.

Nor does the kids of the lady who has 5 kids..

What they should do, IMO...is give every adult over 18 (because those that work who are under 18 do not pay in goverment taxes) a rebate. But not just a rebate. A rebate based on the percentage of taxes paid to the province as per your income tax return, with a garunteed minimum of 300.00 and maybe 100 extra for each kid if that is the issueto each person (if you didnt have to pay provincial taxes )

So say its a flat rate of um...10%. If you paid 1000 dollars in Provincial tax..you get 500 dollars (the minimum). But if you paid 10000.00 in taxes..you get 1000.00.

But my sister should not get the same as me when i pay, and she doenst.

[onemorelexy]

I as a single mother on alberta works ( I go to school) I can assure you that recieving 400$ for each of my children and my self will NOT make me want to go on wefare. Do the people who say those things hear them selves talking or are they just so sheltered that they dont get it? I was on AISH for 7 years and I could not support my family on what they were giving me (1338$) you figure that out it is a little over 300$ a month for each person in my family So again I say are you kidding no one in their RIGHT mind gets a 400$ cheque and then runs right down to welfare to sign up give your head a shake!!!!!!! As for health care if ralph were to give the 400$ check to alberta health instead of my family we would go another month with out fresh food.

[fellowtraveller]

Why would the Tories feel any need to buy votes?

A large majority of Albertans have voted for them for a very long time, through some very tough times too.

Well, given the 33 per cent drop in Tory support in the last election from 2001, they must figure a little vote-buying can't hurt. And, given the stageringly low voter turnout (particularily in the last election) I'd hardly call the 20 per cent of the total population who voted Tory a "huge majority".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is a tip for free on how to identify votebuying Black Dog: look around for an election. The next Alberta election isn't for a couple of years. The $400 and the fond memories of the electorate will both be long gone by then.

Good luck convincing your fellow Albertans to give up their cash!

It takes no convincing at all to convince Albertans to do just that.

Resource income 2004; about $13 billion total

Alberta net contribution to Canada 2004: about $11 billion

You don't mind if we keep a few crumbs?