We need more minority police.

[Big Blue Machine]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

[Argus]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they're incompetent, uneducated and can barely speak English, right?

[B. Max]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they're incompetent, uneducated and can barely speak English, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's the canadian way.

[Big Blue Machine]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they're incompetent, uneducated and can barely speak English, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy someone's pessmisstic.

[Shady]

Boy someone's pessmisstic

No, it's a legitimate question. What happens if there isn't enough qualified people to fill the stated percentage quotas? It's not pessimistic, it's realistic.

[mcqueen625]

The only fair way to choose police personnel is to hire the most qualified, and race or language spoken should have nothing to do with it. We have situations now in Canadian institutions like our military, RCMP, Customs, and other organizations that discriminate against perfectly capable people by denying them admittance or promotability simply because they cannot speak French, even though they may never have occasion to use the French language while at work.

In New Brunswick we have a situation where people whose mother-tongue was French being hired to fill supposedly bilingual positions, and now the Acadian Society is complaining that these people are forced to work in the English language because clients and co-workers are speaking only English in the offices where they are posted. Since many position in NB are posted as bilingual required, this is most of the province. They are now demanding that they be provided the opportunity to work exclusively in the French langauge. New Brunswick if everyone remembers is supposed to be the only "Officially Bilingual" province in Canada, but our provincial provincial politicians are no longer talking bilingualism, they are talking duality, and the two are hardly the same thing. Duality is duplication, and developing two is definitely more expensive to maintain.

If police are hired on the basis of race, many otherwise highly qualified individuals may be overlooked in the hiring process. That is exactly what happened in places where this has been instituted. When you place quotas on certain minorities it's the same as putting out a sign, "DO NOT APPLY," unless you are one of the following, and by any other name that is called discrimination, based on certain criteria.

[Argus]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they're incompetent, uneducated and can barely speak English, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy someone's pessmisstic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a cynic by nature. But let's examine a few facts. To begin with, most non-aboriginal visible minorities of adult age in Canada are immigrants. This means you're dealing with people whose communications skills are often quite limited - in a job where communications skills are probably THE most important element of the job. Their social skills, probably the second most important element, are often based on their own upbringing, their own cultures, which are often at odds with Canada. Their educational skills, overall, tend to fall into two groups; highly educated, and poorly educated. The former group doesn't want to be cops, the latter group doesn't have the education to be cops. In addition, you have the cultural mindset of certain ethnic groups which makes their members shy away from jobs such as this. It is well know that very few Asians want to be policemen, for example. Therefore, if you are to hire the requisite number of Asians you'll have very little choice in who you take - basically anyone who applies.

All of which leaves aside the all-important issue of whether it makes any real difference what skin colour a cop has. And if you suggest that only black cops can properly police blacks, does that not imply that only white police can properly police whites?

[RB]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they're incompetent, uneducated and can barely speak English, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boy someone's pessmisstic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a cynic by nature. But let's examine a few facts. To begin with, most non-aboriginal visible minorities of adult age in Canada are immigrants. This means you're dealing with people whose communications skills are often quite limited - in a job where communications skills are probably THE most important element of the job. Their social skills, probably the second most important element, are often based on their own upbringing, their own cultures, which are often at odds with Canada. Their educational skills, overall, tend to fall into two groups; highly educated, and poorly educated. The former group doesn't want to be cops, the latter group doesn't have the education to be cops. In addition, you have the cultural mindset of certain ethnic groups which makes their members shy away from jobs such as this. It is well know that very few Asians want to be policemen, for example. Therefore, if you are to hire the requisite number of Asians you'll have very little choice in who you take - basically anyone who applies.

All of which leaves aside the all-important issue of whether it makes any real difference what skin colour a cop has. And if you suggest that only black cops can properly police blacks, does that not imply that only white police can properly police whites?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here are the min. requirements to enter into the Toronto Police Services

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS

- Age 18 - 65 years of age

- Education minimum grade 12 or equivalent, post-secondary is advantageous

- Residence Canadian Citizen or permanent residency status

- Background no criminal convictions without pardon and be of good moral character and habits

- Vision minimum of 20/40 (uncorrected), with normal colour acuity

- Hearing must meet hearing standards as established by the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police

- Driving Ontario class "G" licence (upon submitting application) a quality driving record with less than six demerit points

- First Aid / CPR certified in level C prior to employment

I am sure there must be a pool of non-white to draw from that can represent the community diversity. A grade 12 education would mean that someone with that level of education has a potential to enter into the police services or is that the meaning of uneducated.

I don't believe that Asian do not want to enter into the police services its just that historically they did not fit the height/weight requirements. It is just one of those profession that the Asians still seem to be severly underrepresented, if the police services do not outreach and recruit in Asian evironments, the less likely a potential Asian is found.

[Hawk]

I say let the people that want to be cops, be cops. Stop trying to force certain people into certain jobs, and stop being so damnably racist.

[Renegade]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question here is should we adopt an affirmative action policy where race can potentially outweigh the attributes required for the position.

Is it possible that racial background IS an important attribute which is required of the position? For example, all other things being equal, is a black cop a better cop than a white cop in a black neighborhood because the black cop is more likely to be trusted? If the answer is yes, then it brings up the question of whether we let other people’s biases dictate the best choice of the candidate for a position.

For myself, I am very much against affirmative action. People's fit for a role should be judged upon their skills for the job. Racial background should not be one of the attributes considered, and it is abhorrent to me that more qualified candidates would be passed over by less qualified ones just because they don't have the correct racial background.

[Toro]

We shouldn't bend the standards to allow a certain type of person onto the police force. Nor should there be any formal or informal bans on hiring any group of people. But a police force is more effective if it better reflects the community it serves. If that means getting more minorities onto the force, then efforts should be made to do so.

[mirror]

Do you think what Mahar Arar was subjected to could have been prevented if CSIS properly reflected our multicultural society?

[Argus]

Do you think what Mahar Arar was subjected to could have been prevented if CSIS properly reflected our multicultural society?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why? Because Arabs, as a group, tend to be more opposed to torture than anyone else?

Perhaps you're right. If there'd been more Arabs they'd have tortured him themselves.

[mirror]

Humour is good.

BTW anyone been watching the late nite talk shows this week with particularly Jon Stewart?

If Arar was an isolated incident perhaps there would be grounds to not believe him but it is beginning to look like might be a whole slew of them. Doesn't look very good, at least at the moment.

[mirror]

We need more minority police in Ontario. Everyone accuses the police of being racist so lets get more minority people into the force. And lets proportion them. So out of 5000 police, for example, the asian people get 32%, whites get 40%, blacks get 27&.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question here is should we adopt an affirmative action policy where race can potentially outweigh the attributes required for the position.

Is it possible that racial background IS an important attribute which is required of the position? For example, all other things being equal, is a black cop a better cop than a white cop in a black neighborhood because the black cop is more likely to be trusted? If the answer is yes, then it brings up the question of whether we let other people’s biases dictate the best choice of the candidate for a position.

For myself, I am very much against affirmative action. People's fit for a role should be judged upon their skills for the job. Racial background should not be one of the attributes considered, and it is abhorrent to me that more qualified candidates would be passed over by less qualified ones just because they don't have the correct racial background.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear renegade,

Perhaps being in tune with the minority community you are going to serve in is part of the atributes required to become an effective and appropriate police officer, huh! What do you think?

Cheers,

[Renegade]

Dear renegade,

Perhaps being in tune with the minority community you are going to serve in is part of the atributes required to become an effective and appropriate police officer, huh! What do you think?  

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting point mirror. It is what I referred to when I asked the question "Is it possible that racial background IS an important attribute which is required of the position?"

The problem is how do you prove that a minority canidate is more in tune with the minority community? And if you make that assumption, that they are because solely of their race, then I guess you would also conclude that a white officer would be more in tune with a white community. Would you then permit an all-white community to discrimminate against accepting a black officer because he was not "in tune with the community"

[mirror]

Dear renegade,

That's a valid point.

I suppose that we try and match people up with their communities as much as possible however it is never even going to be exactly right. What if someone calls in sick, vacations , etc.?

Cheers,

[Renegade]

Dear renegade,

That's a valid point.

I suppose that we try and match people up with their communities as much as possible however it is never even going to be exactly right. What if someone calls in sick, vacations , etc.?

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mirror, to match police officers up to communities on a racial basis would smack of segegration. I'm be more inclined to accept it if was a case of assigning officers to communities in the closest proximity to where they live or grew up.

Having a community exposed to officers of a different race can be beneficial as they are then exposed to races other than their own. It is only when there are extremes in representation that problems occur. My preference is to attack the biases in the selection process which excludes minority canidates, rather than impose "quotas"

[Argus]

Perhaps being in tune with the minority community you are going to serve in is part of the atributes required to become an effective and appropriate police officer, huh! What do you think? 

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And how far do you take that? I remember hearing once that a Somalian had been transferred to our building. The worker who told me was aghast, telling me that I better lock up my stuff now, and also saying how Somalians smelled so bad, and why on Earth did we let them in Canada. The person telling me this was Black

You see, what you think of as the "black community" is nothing of the sort. It is a variety of communities, many of whom despise each other. African Blacks in particular, have scant respect for Carribean blacks, and vice versa. I imagine the same is true within the Arab and Asian communities.

[Slavik44]

Perhaps if you Practice Racisim in your hiring policies...all you will get out of it, is more Racisim....Maybe Racisim is not the answer to ward off Rascism. If you go out and look for indo-canadian officers specifically to fill a quota to ensure Indo-Canadains have a voice in the police force. It sends a message to the indo Canadians you hire, that they are not police officers, but liasons between the Police Force and their ethnic group, or more like defenders of their ethnic group. That will create even more conflict. So why not just go out and hire some public liasons, improve the ability of the police force to respond to complaints, and ensure that they do thouroughly investigate claims of abuse wether rascism, assault, or violation of constitutional rights..it seems to be as though lodging a complaint against the local police could very well be a long ardous process that most likely has little return. Perhaps we should change that. I do not belive the Answer lies in making the police force a confederacy of rival gangs that act first and foremost as ethnic protectors, rather then public protectors. Yes we most stop Rasicism in the Police Force, but we must do that through transparency, not through infighting and mutually assured Ass Kickings, or creating the possibility where you could let a brother off the hook that is walking a very fine and dangerous line.

[Derek Bellamy]

In my point of view, why should we try to implament something that would make the goverment hire people that may not normaly be allowed to be hired.

By this I am saying, they hire 40% whites, and 27% blacks. That is great, they meet the required amount for those two. However they only hire 28% asian. Well not the goverment would be forced to hire 4% asians that may not be fully qualifyed to be a police office.

Hawk said it perfectly, let people who want to be Police Officers try and be Police Officers. Dont make it so there is some kind of pressure on sosicty to fill these roles.

There will always be times were we have more then we need, and times we dont have enough. Its a part of life,