Canada's National Finances

[mirror]

Federal Q1 surplus exceeds estimate for entire year

Critics have long accused the finance minister of deliberately underestimating revenues to guarantee a large surplus after the books are closed. It can then only be used to pay down debt.

While Goodale expects last year's surplus will be just $3 billion when the books are finally closed, private-sector estimates are ranging as high as $8 billion.

What is the private sector whining about now? One would think they would be pleased that Canada is paying down its national debt. You just can't win with those clowns!

[Toro]

Crtitics come from both sides of the spectrum. The Left says the Libs should increase spending. The Right says they should cut taxes.

[mirror]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

That's a neat trick. Everything that is found to be in surplus for the federal budget has to go into paying down the federal debt, once the books are finalized. Well I suppose this is one way to bring down the debt, and avoiding the braying of the high tax bracket hounds for their pound of flesh, err, tax decreases.

[August1991]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

For once, I agree with you mirror. The basic exemption should be raised to nsomething like $15,000 or even $20,000 and the GST should be extended to all items, including food.

Many, many people wouldn't have to pay any income tax at all.

[shoop]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey mirror, why don't you give a couple of examples of these "tax loopholes" you find unfair?

[Hawk]

First of all, the Libs should be either:

a ) putting this 'surplus' money back into what they originally cut it from (aka the MILITARY and healthcare etc)

b ) giving UNIVERSAL tax cuts, don't punish the rich for being successful.

As for the GST, they should have ditched that entirely back when they ousted Mulroney for introducing it in replacement of FST. Isn't it funny that a Con that supports the GST gets ousted, but the Liberals who promised to get rid of it and didn't have been in power ever since =) Socialists like corrupt governments I guess, but who can blame them.. I mean, socialism is inherently corrupt

[err]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

For once, I agree with you mirror. The basic exemption should be raised to nsomething like $15,000 or even $20,000 and the GST should be extended to all items, including food.

Many, many people wouldn't have to pay any income tax at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I will have to agree whole-heartedly as well.

(The NDP's last election platform, did something like this, and also raised the child tax allowance considerably)

[err]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey mirror, why don't you give a couple of examples of these "tax loopholes" you find unfair?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about the investor who borrows $8 Million, adding it to his own $10 Million, investing in a portfolio that will pay him $900,000 per year in dividends. He can deduct the $900K interest cost from his $900K dividend and end up with a zero tax bill. Then, he can take out a small number of stocks out of his $18 Million portfolio and cash them in as a profit... tax free of course, because it is a capital gain. Meanwhile, his $18 Million continues to grow in value. All this has been subsidized byu the government, which has allowed him to deduct interest costs. This kind of thing goes on all the time...

Another example could be Shell Oil. In its 1982 statement, it reported income taxes of $152 Million on profits of $302 Million, giving the company a staggering tax rate of 50.4%. However, in smaller print, further down the report, we see that Shell deferred $199 Million in taxes that year through writing off investments in plant and equipment at an artificially fast rate (2 yrs). This wiped out the company's $152 Million tax bill, and we actually ended up owing Shell $47 Million. Then we have Conservative mouthpieces like yourself telling us that business pays too much tax.

[err]

RETRACTION

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

For once, I agree with you mirror. The basic exemption should be raised to nsomething like $15,000 or even $20,000 and the GST should be extended to all items, including food.

Many, many people wouldn't have to pay any income tax at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I will have to agree whole-heartedly as well.

(The NDP's last election platform, did something like this, and also raised the child tax allowance considerably)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I spoke too quickly. I completely disagree with the GST statement that August1991 made. The GST is a regressive tax. Poorer and middle income people live cheque to cheque. They spend pretty much all their income. Thus, they pay value-added taxes on pretty much all their income. If August1991 had her way (at least I'm assuming August1991 is a she, sorry if I'm wrong) these poorer people pay value-added taxes on ALL their income. Whereas wealthier folk who do not spend all their income every week.... are taxed only on the portion they spend. Thus, the poor pay a higher percentage of their income on tax than the wealthy with GST/PST.

[mirror]

Actually I would like to see the Layton New Democrats have, as part of their party platform in the next election, reduce the GST by 2% to 5%. I also would like to see a law passed where the price of goods has all the taxes including GST & PST included in its price, whether it be on the item itself, or in any advertising for the item.

[SirSpanky]

Hmmmm.....

That would definately appeal to the masses. Is that a plan of theirs?

[Hawk]

Actually I would like to see the Layton New Democrats have, as part of their party platform in the next election, reduce the GST by 2% to 5%. I also would like to see a law passed where the price of goods has all the taxes including GST & PST included in its price, whether it be on the item itself, or in any advertising for the item.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Riiight, an uber-socialist party REDUCING taxes Keep dreaming buddy

[shoop]

Riiight, an uber-socialist party REDUCING taxes  Keep dreaming buddy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the issue with the NDs, and the real reason why they will never form government nationally. No understanding of economics or tax policy.

Here is a well-thought out way to alleviate the burden of the GST on poor Canadians.

The GST rebate targets the poor directly. Why not increase the amount of the GST rebate? Increase the threshold income for eligibility to receive the rebate?

Reducing the GST across the board would cost billions and put more money in the pockets of "the rich", as well as "the poor".

[mirror]

Reducing the GST across the board would cost billions and put more money in the pockets of "the rich", as well as "the poor".

Poor people spend substantially more of their income percentagewise on the GST than the rich. I believe in the KISS theory of economics. Just lower the rate across the board and all Canadians will benefit however the poor will benefit proportionally more than the rich.

All those in favour of reducing GST to 5% vote for...........party.

[shoop]

[Poor people spend substantially more of their income percentagewise on the GST than the rich. I believe in the KISS theory of economics. Just lower the rate across the board and all Canadians will benefit however the poor will benefit proportionally more than the rich.

All those in favour of reducing GST to 5% vote for...........party. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You KISS theory of economics hurts the poor. Why not advocate the changes to the GST rebate I advocated? Or are you the so much the second S in your theory of economics that you can't understand why it would be better for the poor?

[cybercoma]

GST brings in around $35-billion, the surplus is said to be around $8-billion, that means reducing the GST by 1.5% would eat up the entire surplus. Reducing it anymore than that would mean cutbacks in spending, which Lord knows will never happen with the current bunch we have running the show.

[shoop]

GST brings  in around $35-billion, the surplus is said to be around $8-billion, that means reducing the GST by 1.5% would eat up the entire surplus.  Reducing it anymore than that would mean cutbacks in spending, which Lord knows will never happen with the current bunch we have running the show.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great point. No worth arguing economics with the NDs. They just don't get it.

Mirror's proposed 2% cut in the GST would put the budget into deficit.

Go ahead, propose that one Jack. Won't really get you many votes...

[Riverwind]

Poor people spend substantially more of their income percentagewise on the GST than the rich. I believe in the KISS theory of economics. Just lower the rate across the board and all Canadians will benefit however the poor will benefit proportionally more than the rich.

This is BS. The poor spend most of their income on food/rent/housing which are GST exempt. In addition, they qualify for GST tax refunds for the small portion of income they do spend on GST.

Consider the following numbers a family of 4 earning $30000/year in BC:

Rent: 700/month = 8400/year

Food: 500/month = 6000/year

Potential GST Taxable Spending: 15400/year

GST Rebate: 169/quarter = 679/year = GST on ~$9640 of spending

MAXIMUM Unrefunded GST: 400/year == 1.3% of income.

This of course assumes that they spent all of their disposable income on GST taxable items.

[mirror]

Poor people spend substantially more of their income percentagewise on the GST than the rich. I believe in the KISS theory of economics. Just lower the rate across the board and all Canadians will benefit however the poor will benefit proportionally more than the rich.

This is BS. The poor spend most of their income on food/rent/housing which are GST exempt. In addition, they qualify for GST tax refunds for the small portion of income they do spend on GST.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go back and re-read what I wrote.

[Riverwind]

Go back and re-read what I wrote.

Kiss theory: increase the personal for income tax exemption - gives a break to everyone but helps the poor. Even better: increase the deduction for stay at home parents and encourage people to take care of their own kids instead of demanding gov't subsidies

[mirror]

KISS: Keep it simple, stupid theory. Reduce GST by 2% to 5%.

Don't ask the CEOs with their million dollar options perks, instead ask the poor if that is what they would like.

[Argus]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

What tax loop holes are you referring to? RRSP contributions?

[Riverwind]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

What tax loop holes are you referring to? RRSP contributions?

He does not know because there are not any - he is just repeating left wing propaganda which says that anyone making more than 50K is inherently evil (unless they are a union worker).

[Argus]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey mirror, why don't you give a couple of examples of these "tax loopholes" you find unfair?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about the investor who borrows $8 Million, adding it to his own $10 Million, investing in a portfolio that

I made more than $50,000 and I haven't borrowed $8 million in ages.

[Argus]

I would like to see a tax decrease for those with less than $50,000. annual income to offset all the tax loopholes that those above that income bracket are privvy to.

For once, I agree with you mirror. The basic exemption should be raised to nsomething like $15,000 or even $20,000 and the GST should be extended to all items, including food.

Many, many people wouldn't have to pay any income tax at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But they'd still have all the rights of other citizens, right? They'd be allowed to vote, for example?

Why?

If you have no responsibilities or obligations why should you draw any benefits? Why should someone who pays no taxes have any say in the running of a government he contributes nothing to?

The corollary for "No taxation without representation" is "No representation without taxation." Or should be.