Equal rights

[Leader Circle]

When we talk about equal rights for all, it reminds me of this article a read the other day.

It's from The Western Standard and if you have never read it, you should pick up a copy.

The particualr article is by Mark Steyn and it is titled "Cross-dressed nation"

He goes on to talk about Miss universe, from Toronto, Natalie Glebova, and how she was banned from Toronto City Hall while wearing her tiara & sash, because it involved "activities that were degrading to men & women through sexual stereotyping for the purpose of attracting attention"

During the Gay pride parade this year, at Nathan Phillip's Square, they had "Miss Shemale World" on display. She(it) was wearing boots, gloves, a thong, a naked pair of breast implants, a sash & a tiara.

Ok, who here notices anything strange??

So talk about equal rights!

This surely represents equal rights for all!

Is this glaringly obvious double standard an acceptable thing in the "new Canada"?

Am I a bigot for finding fault with this?

[geoffrey]

When we talk about equal rights for all, it reminds me of this article a read the other day.

It's from The Western Standard and if you have never read it, you should pick up a copy.

The particualr article is by Mark Steyn and it is titled "Cross-dressed nation"

He goes on to talk about Miss universe, from Toronto, Natalie Glebova, and how she was banned from Toronto City Hall while wearing her tiara & sash, because it involved "activities that were degrading to men & women through sexual stereotyping for the purpose of attracting attention"

During the Gay pride parade this year, at Nathan Phillip's Square, they had "Miss Shemale World" on display. She(it) was wearing boots, gloves, a thong, a naked pair of breast implants, a sash & a tiara.

Ok, who here notices anything strange??

So talk about equal rights!

This surely represents equal rights for all!

Is this glaringly obvious double standard an acceptable thing in the "new Canada"?

Am I a bigot for finding fault with this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are all second class citizens to the gays. Your not a bigot to find fault with this, many, if not most, Canadians do.

I can't see many other situations when 2 or 3 percent of the population can force a law through parliment that only benifets them.

If they use their sexual orientation to gain power, then by all means, we can see them as a seperate group. If they want to be equal, quit demanding that their 'culture' be recognized as distinct. If I were to have a straight pride parade, I'm sure someone out there would suggest I be tried from human rights abuses.

[Renegade]

We are all second class citizens to the gays. Your not a bigot to find fault with this, many, if not most, Canadians do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you get an idea like that? And yes it is bigoted if that position isn't based in fact. The fact that homosexuals have been and continue to be discrimminated against isn't in question.

I can't see many other situations when 2 or 3 percent of the population can force a law through parliment that only benifets them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. It wasn't homosexuals lobby groups that pushed a law through parliment. The Supreme Court struck down the existing restrictive law. Even if no law was passed in parliment, homosexuals would be free to marry because the existing law was struck down.

2. It really doesn't matter if its 2%, 3% or 0.5% of the population when rights are violated. The charter gurantees righs of everyone so that the majority (even if they are 99.9%) of the population cannot override the rights of the minority.

If they use their sexual orientation to gain power, then by all means, we can see them as a seperate group. If they want to be equal, quit demanding that their 'culture' be recognized as distinct. If I were to have a straight pride parade, I'm sure someone out there would suggest I be tried from human rights abuses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not making sense here. What do you mean by "use sexual orientation to gain power"?

Men and women are distinct from each other. Does that mean that they shouldn't be equal just because they are distinct?

You are free to have a straight pride parade. No one will try you, and if you generate enough interest lots of people (both gay and straight) may attend.

[Guest Warwick Green]

I can't see many other situations when 2 or 3 percent of the population can force a law through parliment that only benifets them.

I think when society extends rights to others we all benefit. I am a heterosexual and married and my rights were not in the slightest diminished by the extension of marriage to gays.

[Toro]

What a ridiculous double-standard from the brain-dead PC crowd. Let the Gay Queen or whomever go to Nathan Phillips Square, and let Miss Universe do so too. And quit with the Tolerance Nazism and be proud that Miss Universe is Canadian.

[Leader Circle]

What a ridiculous double-standard from the brain-dead PC crowd.  Let the Gay Queen or whomever go to Nathan Phillips Square, and let Miss Universe do so too.  And quit with the Tolerance Nazism and be proud that Miss Universe is Canadian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They want retribution for all the sins committed against them.

The dumbass Liberals are awarding them with it and the weak bleeding hearts are giving them anything their hearts desire. It's only going to get worse. Welcome to Canada! Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous!

[PocketRocket]

They want retribution for all the sins committed against them.

Sorta sounds like the NAACP in the States, or the First Nations Peoples here in Canada.

Or people who were "touched" by priests as kids, or just about anyone who feels their rights have been trampled underfoot in the past.

All that being said, I have to disagree and say I don't think Gays a group are looking for "retribution" so much as just getting the rights they are entitled to as citizens.

After all, we haven't heard of any class-action suits by the Gay community against the government or any major corporations.

[Mad_Michael]

When we talk about equal rights for all, it reminds me of this article a read the other day.

It's from The Western Standard and if you have never read it, you should pick up a copy.

The particualr article is by Mark Steyn and it is titled "Cross-dressed nation"

He goes on to talk about Miss universe, from Toronto, Natalie Glebova, and how she was banned from Toronto City Hall while wearing her tiara & sash, because it involved "activities that were degrading to men & women through sexual stereotyping for the purpose of attracting attention"

During the Gay pride parade this year, at Nathan Phillip's Square, they had "Miss Shemale World" on display. She(it) was wearing boots, gloves, a thong, a naked pair of breast implants, a sash & a tiara.

Ok, who here notices anything strange??

So talk about equal rights!

This surely represents equal rights for all!

Is this glaringly obvious double standard an acceptable thing in the "new Canada"?

Am I a bigot for finding fault with this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The difference is that Nathan Philips Square (in front of City Hall) is owned and totally operated by the city. Thus, all events at Nathan Philips Square are "g-rated" for family entertainment - with typically bureaucratic rules of political correctness. A couple of years ago the Bare Naked Ladies were prohibited from playing at a City Hall New Years Eve concert due to their name.

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations. The decency standards applied to this event are those of the relevant community - which one might say are somewhat more lax than that of the uptight city bureaucrats.

Thus, the two events are not comparable. Try comparing two City Hall sponsored events and show me the same 'inequality'.

Or perhaps, show me two separate private events on city streets and show me the same 'inequality'.

So, in conclusion, I must say, you most certainly are looking like a bigot here. You appear to be looking for some thing to rationally justify your bigotry. Like most bigots, your facts have been cherry-picked for the purpose of expressing your bigotry.

[Mad_Michael]

We are all second class citizens to the gays. Your not a bigot to find fault with this, many, if not most, Canadians do.

Really? This would be funny if not for the bigotry and hatred it tries to conceal.

I can't see many other situations when 2 or 3 percent of the population can force a law through parliment that only benifets them.

First of all, it was the Liberal Party of Canada that passed the same-sex legislation in response to the fact that the Courts had struck down the previous law as unconstitutional. Essentially, gay people had nothing directly to do with it.

Besides which, legislation is passed through our legislature at the behest of much smaller proportions of our populace on a regular basis. Indeed, I'm aware of a couple of pieces of legislation that have passed the Canadian Parliament for the sole benefit of a single family.

If they use their sexual orientation to gain power, then by all means, we can see them as a seperate group.

Huh? This makes no sense. Please explain.

If they want to be equal, quit demanding that their 'culture' be recognized as distinct.

Why not? Society previously sought to ban said culture and persecute gays for being distinct. Make up your mind.

If I were to have a straight pride parade, I'm sure someone out there would suggest I be tried from human rights abuses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bemused giggles. Everyday is a straight parade!

Why do straight people always try this argument? It is absurd. If you want a straight parade, go ahead - nothing by your own laziness is stopping you. If you can find enough sponsors and enough community support, go for it. The logisitic arrangements are enormous and the commitment from the organisers has to be second-to-none.

[Mad_Michael]

2. It really doesn't matter if its 2%, 3% or 0.5% of the population when rights are violated. The charter gurantees righs of everyone so that the majority (even if they are 99.9%) of the population cannot override the rights of the minority.

Excellent point.

[Mad_Michael]

What a ridiculous double-standard from the brain-dead PC crowd.  Let the Gay Queen or whomever go to Nathan Phillips Square, and let Miss Universe do so too.  And quit with the Tolerance Nazism and be proud that Miss Universe is Canadian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a ridiculous post.

There is room enough for Gay Pride parades and Miss Universe in Toronto. City Hall seeks to be prim and proper, the Gay community has no such pretensions. If Miss Universe wishes to attend the Gay Pride parade, she may do so topless if she likes.

Speaking of tolerance...

Why is it only bigots who rant about tolerance?

[Mad_Michael]

They want retribution for all the sins committed against them.

Really? If this were true, I should think they'd be asking for the gun laws to be repealed.

...The dumbass Liberals are awarding them with it and the weak bleeding hearts are giving them anything their hearts desire. It's only going to get worse. Welcome to Canada! Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, we now know where you stand. Your sexuality is apparently comprimised by the peaceful existance of homosexuals. Hmmm....

[Leader Circle]

When we talk about equal rights for all, it reminds me of this article a read the other day.

It's from The Western Standard and if you have never read it, you should pick up a copy.

The particualr article is by Mark Steyn and it is titled "Cross-dressed nation"

He goes on to talk about Miss universe, from Toronto, Natalie Glebova, and how she was banned from Toronto City Hall while wearing her tiara & sash, because it involved "activities that were degrading to men & women through sexual stereotyping for the purpose of attracting attention"

During the Gay pride parade this year, at Nathan Phillip's Square, they had "Miss Shemale World" on display. She(it) was wearing boots, gloves, a thong, a naked pair of breast implants, a sash & a tiara.

Ok, who here notices anything strange??

So talk about equal rights!

This surely represents equal rights for all!

Is this glaringly obvious double standard an acceptable thing in the "new Canada"?

Am I a bigot for finding fault with this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The difference is that Nathan Philips Square (in front of City Hall) is owned and totally operated by the city. Thus, all events at Nathan Philips Square are "g-rated" for family entertainment - with typically bureaucratic rules of political correctness. A couple of years ago the Bare Naked Ladies were prohibited from playing at a City Hall New Years Eve concert due to their name.

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations. The decency standards applied to this event are those of the relevant community - which one might say are somewhat more lax than that of the uptight city bureaucrats.

Thus, the two events are not comparable. Try comparing two City Hall sponsored events and show me the same 'inequality'.

Or perhaps, show me two separate private events on city streets and show me the same 'inequality'.

So, in conclusion, I must say, you most certainly are looking like a bigot here. You appear to be looking for some thing to rationally justify your bigotry. Like most bigots, your facts have been cherry-picked for the purpose of expressing your bigotry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our local political scientist has proven how much weight his arguement has! Nuff Said!

[Mad_Michael]

Our local political scientist has proven how much weight his arguement has! Nuff Said!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your condescention is amusing. Your rebuttal is also non-existent. No surprise, I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Btw, I prefer the title of philosopher as I have higher degrees in that discipline that in poli-sci.

[Leader Circle]

Our local political scientist has proven how much weight his arguement has! Nuff Said!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your condescention is amusing. Your rebuttal is also non-existent. No surprise, I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Btw, I prefer the title of philosopher as I have higher degrees in that discipline that in poli-sci.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No surprise!

How fortunate for us to have such a learned person in our presence!

[Mad_Michael]

How fortunate for us to have such a learned person in our presence!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fortunate perhaps for the others, though I'm sure I'm not the only one around here with a good education.

Unfortunate for you it seems since your arguments seem to be based entirely upon erroneous information and irrational arguments.

[August1991]

How fortunate for us to have such a learned person in our presence!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fortunate perhaps for the others, though I'm sure I'm not the only one around here with a good education.

Unfortunate for you it seems since your arguments seem to be based entirely upon erroneous information and irrational arguments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guys, knock off the personal remarks. I enjoy the debate on both sides and find it more interesting without them.

[August1991]

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations. The decency standards applied to this event are those of the relevant community - which one might say are somewhat more lax than that of the uptight city bureaucrats.

The Pride Parade takes place on a public street, and the relevant community can only be the entire city.

[Leader Circle]

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations. The decency standards applied to this event are those of the relevant community - which one might say are somewhat more lax than that of the uptight city bureaucrats.

The Pride Parade takes place on a public street, and the relevant community can only be the entire city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mad mikey was at the gay pride parade and may just be miss shemale world, therefore none of this bothers him(it).

But in all seriousness, I find gay pride parades to be offensive, and would not want it in my neighborhood.(Which is not ever a possibility, living in northern Alberta!!) I respect the fact that they are gay, I just don't see the need of them prancing in the streets in tights & strap on gear & shemale contests, making total asses of themselves. It is over the top! And for Toronto to ban miss Universe from their building for degrading herself and let these freaks do what they do, it shows poor judgement on their part and favoritism to the gay pride folks! If we truly are going to have equal rights, we need to extend them to all not just the vocal groups!!!!

Toronto, of all cities, should be setting an example to the rest of Canada. This is not a way to get that accomplished!

To you Mad, I have a direct question..... Should gays & lesbians be given more rights than the rest of Canada for such things??? Do you honestly see nothing wrong with what happened at Nathan Phillips Square??

[kimmy]

We had a more entertaining thread on this subject last month:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3588

Do gays in Canada have more rights than everybody else? Of course not. Don't be ridiculous. What a nonsensical notion.

The issue-- the issue worth discussing-- is whether political correctness has gone too far.

I am concerned that political correctness is preventing us from not just discussing many important issues, but in some cases even acknowledging that there's a problem.

-k

[Mad_Michael]

Mad mikey was at the gay pride parade and may just be miss shemale world, therefore none of this bothers him(it).

Posted by Leader Circle. Duly noted.

[Mad_Michael]

Guys, knock off the personal remarks.  I enjoy the debate on both sides and find it more interesting without them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Place the blame where it is due. I'm only replying with come semblance of civility against this steady stream of abuse that this Leader Circle poster is shoveling my way.

Much more of it and you'll all see the last me around this site. I only participate at quality discussion sites - not flame forums.

[Mad_Michael]

To you Mad, I have a direct question..... Should gays & lesbians be given more rights than the rest of Canada for such things??? Do you honestly see nothing wrong with what happened at Nathan Phillips Square??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To you Leader Circle, I have only contempt and no reply. I do not wish to feed the trolls and your penchant for insults makes any reply I make a waste of time.

[Mad_Michael]

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations. The decency standards applied to this event are those of the relevant community - which one might say are somewhat more lax than that of the uptight city bureaucrats.

The Pride Parade takes place on a public street, and the relevant community can only be the entire city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. The city of Toronto sprawls over 1000 square miles and encompasses 3-5 million people (depending if you include the 905's or not). To presume that a single community standard applies across the entire city is not justified - nor is it legal practice to do so.

For example, a couple of years ago, a couple of media figures reported (after the fact - i.e. the next day) that they witnessed 'full-frontal' male nudity in the context of the Pride Parade. The Toronto Police service was "enraged and disgusted" by this information and duly showed up in full force the following year and immediately arrested several Parade participants and charged them with public indecency.

Ultimately, the court threw the charges out claiming several reasons, not the least of which was cited as the complete absence of any complaint from a single member of the public. This suggests that community standards were not breached.

On appeal, the police, supported by the Toronto Sun newspaper which originally published the allegations of nudity, showed numerous letters to the editor and written complaints from readers stating that they were offended. The court ruled that the letters were outside the community in question since the originated with people who did not attend the event and had only second-hand information.

So, in conclusion, the Courts have ruled that "community standard" is something that is to be understood as 'limited' in character, not expansive as you have asserted.

My argument stands. The Gay Pride parade does not violate community standards. Different community standards apply at Nathan Philips Square. Big city, many different communities.

[Argus]

In contrast, the Gay Pride Parade is entirely a private organisation, held by a notable community group, funded by private sector donations.

I would be extremely surprised if they didn't get some form of government grants. Certainly the city closes of the street for their benefit and puts in a lot of costly security. BTW, I've seen a number of cases where cities which didn't want to hold a gay pride day got sued for their stand and the courts forced them to hold a gay pride day anyway.