Star Aerospace shifts HO to AB from ON

[Riverwind]

But you notice we went from discussing the geographic unsuitability of Alberta to "value added" industries, to discussing critical mass.

My original point talked about transportation, _population_ and climate as factors that would limit Alberta's potential. Critical mass is more related to population and with a population of 3 million limits Alberta's potential in that department.

Some people here seem to be of the opinion that Edmonton and Calgary will simply evaporate when the oil is gone, and Albertans will become dirt farmers or go back to Newfoundland. I don't view this as very likely.

Alberta without oil would look a lot like BC: an economy that is does well most of the time but has to make tough choices between social services and taxes

[Yaro]

Actually BC has the best natural port in NA, and is the worlds only remaining super rain forest. BC is in MUCH better shape long term then is Alberta.

[Canuck E Stan]

Boy this all sounds bad,real bad for Alberta. How far down the road is everyone predicting the collapse of Alberta? Hope it's not next year I have plans to go to Stampede.

[rbacon]

I think you can still go to the Stampede Stan these folk are just upset because they see their meal ticket's tail lights as we leave TROC in the dust. Alberta's taxes are already the lowest in N. America. How do you figure that TROC subsidizes our transportation of oil? That is a new one. Within 7 months it will 90% flow to Texas to their waiting refineries via an Alberta pipeline and a US pipeline owned and paid for by oil companies. I would not worry too much about Alberta running out of oil in your lifetime, the oilsands alone have as much as Saudi Arabia and the process of extracting it increases its value above natural crude by about 10.00 a barrel. If the New Albertan's play their cards right at Independence and end all income and personal property taxes Alberta will be a magnet of the best and brightest. Connect that with an International Banking and Tax Free Zone for manufacturing and bingo look out. We could demand gold for oil until about 100B in Gold is sitting in Edmonton. No debt No taxes watch the inflow of capital and talent.

[Hawk]

I don't know who brought up this idea of the oil running out, but that person is a little off (If my source isn't off)

It is estimated that Alberta has 175 billion barrels in reserve. Canada's (not alberta's) current production is approximately 2.6 million barrels per day.

175,000,000,000 / 2,600,000 (again, Canada's total) = 67307.69 (days)

67307.69 / 365.25 (number of days in a year) = 184.28 (years).

Production will surely go up, but even if it triples we still have over 60 years of oil in reserve.

Technological advances will surely eliminate the need for oil before we run out.

[Riverwind]

It is estimated that Alberta has 175 billion barrels in reserve. Canada's (not alberta's) current production is approximately 2.6 million barrels per day.

175,000,000,000 / 2,600,000 (again, Canada's total) = 67307.69 (days)

How much of that is tar sands oil? The cost of extracting tar sands oil will mean the Alberta government will not make as much money off tar sands oil.

[Yaro]

Actually they will hardly make anything, by the time the Tar Sands are truly needed Bio-Diesel Hybrids will be long since practical.

Boy this all sounds bad,real bad for Alberta. How far down the road is everyone predicting the collapse of Alberta? Hope it's not next year I have plans to go to Stampede.

I think that Alberta has a very good 10-25 year economic outlook, past that they have very little going for them geography and weather being what it is in Alberta. Nobody is going to stay in Alberta when it’s no longer subsidized by oil and mining, what will be the difference between Texas and Alberta besides the weather?

[rbacon]

Alberta's future is very bright indeed compared to what is going to happen to the bloated unionized manufacturing of Ontario and Quebec as China and India ramp up production. Just read some 140,000 Quebec and Ontario textile workers are toast due to China's 700 million slave labourers at .03 cents an hour. Good luck on your own.

[Redneck Yokel]

Actually they will hardly make anything, by the time the Tar Sands are truly needed Bio-Diesel Hybrids will be long since practical.

"The Canadian National Energy Board estimated this year that oil-sands producers could be profitable at roughly $24 per barrel, a figure that rises along with the price of the natural gas used in the extraction and upgrading process"

from: Here

Price as of July 28, 2005: $59.94

Assuming natural gas doesn't decide to make an enormous jump right away, I would say they're not doing too horrible.

[kimmy]

But you notice we went from discussing the geographic unsuitability of Alberta to "value added" industries, to discussing critical mass.

My original point talked about transportation, _population_ and climate as factors that would limit Alberta's potential. Critical mass is more related to population and with a population of 3 million limits Alberta's potential in that department.

We've already addressed transportation. And I think climate is being greatly over-rated as a factor: if people are willing to live in Ottawa's sickening climate, they'll obviously tolerate just about anything.

Think about this for a moment: how was it that Ottawa, not even 1/4 the size of Toronto or Montreal, became Canada's technology boom-town? If it was just a matter of raw population, Ottawa would have never stood a chance, right?

Having a large number of people is not the issue. The issue is having the *right* people. In Ottawa's case, between government/military and Bell Northern/Northern Electric/Northern Telecomm, there were many skilled engineers and programmers in the National Capital Region.

In Edmonton's case, as happened in Ottawa, the combination of lots of skilled people, superb post-secondary institutions, and lots of money is going to result in spin-offs and diversifying of the existing industry.

Some people here seem to be of the opinion that Edmonton and Calgary will simply evaporate when the oil is gone, and Albertans will become dirt farmers or go back to Newfoundland. I don't view this as very likely.

Alberta without oil would look a lot like BC: an economy that is does well most of the time but has to make tough choices between social services and taxes

Well that's not so bad.

Anyway, the "Alberta Advantage" is going to be with us for quite a while, and we need leadership that will think big picture; Jim Dinning sounds a lot more capable on that front than Ralph Klein has been.

-k

[Riverwind]

Think about this for a moment: how was it that Ottawa, not even 1/4 the size of Toronto or Montreal, became Canada's technology boom-town?  If it was just a matter of raw population, Ottawa would have never stood a chance, right?

Ottawa is 4 hours from Toronto and two hours from Montreal which means Ottawa is smack in the middle of a region with close to 20 million people in it. That makes a big difference. A typical technology person in Toronto would consider a position in Ottawa but would not consider a position in Calgary unless the money was a _lot_ better (aside: this is not some guess on my part I work in the industry so I know what people think).

Having a large number of people is not the issue. The issue is having the *right* people. In Ottawa's case, between government/military and Bell Northern/Northern Electric/Northern Telecomm, there were many skilled engineers and programmers in the National Capital Region.

There is a strong correlation between the population of region and the number of skilled people. I don't mean to say that it would be impossible to build a tech center in Alberta - I am just saying that Alberta is at a disadvantage when compared to other regions because of its population.

That said I also agree that the 'Aberta Advantage' exists and it will attract some businesses and people thate would otherwise not consider Alberta. I started these posts because I felt some people were grossly exagerrating the importance of the 'Alberta Advantage' and were using to justify secession without considering the numerous negative consequences of such a move.

[mirror]

Alberta awash in oil, gas money

Alberta has already succeeded in attracting such businesses as Imperial Oil, which recently moved its headquarters from Toronto to Calgary.

But if higher oil and gas prices mean the westward flow becomes a flood, there will be panic in the other provinces.

Ontario, the longstanding "fat cat of Confederation" (at least in the eyes of the rest of the country), is particularly vulnerable due to the double-whammy effect of higher oil and gas prices. They both increase the cost of doing business in the province and drive up the value of the Canadian dollar, thus making Ontario's manufactured goods less competitive in export markets.

Ontario's Dalton McGuinty and the other premiers were too polite to raise this issue during this week's conference. But they talked about it privately, and they know that, sooner or later, they will have to confront it in the open.

Albertans know it, too, which is why with each rise in the price of oil, the anxiety level in this province goes up correspondingly.

They remember the last era of soaring oil prices a quarter century ago, when the federal government introduced the national energy program (NEP) to spread the wealth. It was seen in Alberta as a confiscatory move by Ottawa.

Heading into this week's conference, there was some concern in the Ontario delegation that Klein might try to get the other premiers to sign on to a pre-emptive declaration against a 2005 version of the NEP.

Klein did not do this. But at the microphone after one closed-door session, he did take the opportunity to underscore the point that Ottawa should keep its hands off the massive oil sands.

The oil sands, he said, "belong to us."

By "us," he meant Albertans, not all Canadians.

With the rising price of oil and gas you would think Canadians would be happy as they are some of our key exports. I wonder how many people and how many head offices move to Alberta each time there is a one dollar increase in the price of oil.

[mirror]

Bush sending VP to Alberta

Well hang on to your cowboy hats as it is going to be a wild ride. The fact that Cheney is coming not to Ottawa nor Toronto but to Alberta says a lot in itself as a lot of people think Cheney is the most powerful person in the world and the brains behind George Bush.

Go Canada Go!

[mirror]

Fresh wind from the West

While I profoundly sympathize with Western Canadians' frustrations about feeling left out of the mainstream, I've always thought that they were using the wrong tactics. Instead of pressuring politicians for senior federal cabinet posts, what they really need is their own bank. That's where the power that counts resides in this country, and that's how you gain individual leverage.

I wonder where Vancity Credit Union fits into the scheme of things. It is pretty big, I thought.

[mirror]

Alberta-bound: How to tap a province of riches

Oh, Alberta. Land of fresh opportunity in this great Canadian folk song, and in your investment portfolio.

Here are four strong reasons to put an Alberta spin on your investing. First, oil. Second, the strongest economy of any province. Third, the eclectic selection of companies that have a major presence in the province. Fourth, a diversity of investment opportunities that goes well beyond resources.

Financially things just seem to keep getting better and better in Alberta.

[Toro]

Instead of pressuring politicians for senior federal cabinet posts, what they really need is their own bank.

Yes, and I might go start one.